A theory about shaving against the grain

Every once in a while, a newbie posts a question along the lines of "why don't you just shave against the grain on the first pass?"

The discussions tend to focus on reducing the stubble, etc. Somebody asks why it's easier to shave shorter hair against the grain--you're still cutting hair that's just as thick, right?

I have a theory about that. I'm still getting this shaving thing down on my chin, and sometimes I have a little stubble left over. One day I noticed that this stubble looked blond, which is odd, since I have dark brown hair. As I looked closer, it looked like the whiskers were sheared off at an angle, and the thinner ends looked lighter.

Now, this is mainly because I'm still learning. But I'm thinking that this always happens, albeit on a smaller scale.

My theory is that the first pass bends the hairs a bit before cutting them, and then what's left over is stubble that's actually much thinner than it was originally. It's trimmed at an angle. Subsequent passes then cut the hair down to skin level, squaring off the whisker with the surface of your skin.

This could also explain why even a mediocre straight shave still feels better to me at the end of the day than my best Mach 3 shave ever did. The same thing happens with the Mach 3--you can see it in the clips National Geographic used in their shaving special. So my Mach 3 was lifting the hairs out of my skin (their three-blade, pull-and-cut approach) which in theory should have left the hairs cut below skin level. Maybe they were, but the ends were trimmed at an angle, so when the stubble came back it had pointy ends and felt rougher.

Does this make any sense? I guess I'm thinking that the Mach 3 cut my beard closer but the straight cuts it cleaner, so the shave lasts longer.

Just a thought.

Josh

Makes sense, and for largely the same reason that a dull razor won't shave as nicely - the hairs deflect further before the cut begins, leaving pointed tips.

Brilliant theory.

I'm one of those people who got very close shaves with a Mach 3, and switched to straights for other reasons. But you're absolutely right – the stubble that comes several hours after a M3 shave was very sharp indeed, and very different from what you get with a straight shave.

Your theory explains two other things that have been mysteries for me:

- Why I never get ingrown hairs after a straight shave, even a superclose one, though I regularly got them w/my Mach 3;

- How it can happen that a straight shave is less comfortable than a M3 shave immediately after (i.e. aftershave still burns like hell, though I realize my technique needs improvement), but later in the day become far more comfortable than a M3 shave would have been.

There have been discussions on this phenomenon on the DE forums as well, with the DE guys noticing the same affect with their DE shaves compared to their M3 shaves. I've noticed this with my straight shaves compared to my DE shaves as well. I'd bet it's just better prep, though. You can get some amazing shaves with an M3 if you prep your face like you do for your straight.

I used the Mach 3 to clean up after my straight shaves early on. It did work better with better prep, but it also left my face really, really raw. :( I was setting myself back more with the M3 than I was with the straight. (I'm not an M3 fan, as you can probably tell from my avatar.)

That prompted me to learn to use a DE, so I could use the DE as a crutch while I worked on my straight shaving. Not a bad way to go; it's worked out well for me, and now I have two single-blade options.

Josh

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Originally Posted by mparker762

There have been discussions on this phenomenon on the DE forums as well, with the DE guys noticing the same affect with their DE shaves compared to their M3 shaves. I've noticed this with my straight shaves compared to my DE shaves as well. I'd bet it's just better prep, though. You can get some amazing shaves with an M3 if you prep your face like you do for your straight.

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Doubtless it's true about prep. But razor burn is only part of Josh's theory as I understand it. The other part has to do with the nature of the stubble that comes up after a Mach 3 shave. In my experience it is definitely sharper to the touch. And I'm thinking that may have to do with the ingrown hairs, itching, etc. that I used to get 8-10 hours after an M3 shave that had felt very close and comfortable at the time, and had indeed left nothing I'd describe as razor burn.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you, mparker, maybe you're not talking about razor burn per se, but saying rather that good prep before an M3 shave would make the hairs stand straight up so you wouldn't get that angled cutting Josh was talking about, which is what produces "sharp" stubble later in the day...

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Originally Posted by dylandog

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you, mparker, maybe you're not talking about razor burn per se, but saying rather that good prep before an M3 shave would make the hairs stand straight up so you wouldn't get that angled cutting Josh was talking about, which is what produces "sharp" stubble later in the day...

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I should have said better prep and technique. Nowadays M3 shavers don't bother prepping their beard, stretching their skin, or doing multiple passes. But if you do all those things that you normally do with a straight or DE, but use an M3 then you get a really impressive shave, much much better than our collective memory of what a "M3 shave" was like, because those shaves were generally unprepped, unstretched, single pass shaves. And that prickly stubble was largely an artifact of this lousy prep and technique than of the razor being used.

All this talk about the Mach 3 makes me consider hauling it out of cold storage in the basement and giving it a try.

I know that my shaves with it did improve as my prep improved, and I'll bet a three-pass shave would be almost as good as a DE shave. (Almost, because the swiveling head means less control for me.) I think shaving across and against the grain would help eliminate some of that spikey feeling. (Maybe not all, because the stubble might retract below the skin level like little punji sticks...)

But I can't imagin doing a three-passer with my Mach 3. That's like a nine-pass DE shave, and my skin starts crawling just thinking about it... I have sensitive skin. :)

Josh

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Originally Posted by mparker762

I should have said better prep and technique. Nowadays M3 shavers don't bother prepping their beard, stretching their skin, or doing multiple passes. But if you do all those things that you normally do with a straight or DE, but use an M3 then you get a really impressive shave, much much better than our collective memory of what a "M3 shave" was like, because those shaves were generally unprepped, unstretched, single pass shaves. And that prickly stubble was largely an artifact of this lousy prep and technique than of the razor being used.

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I totally agree with this. My prep hasn't changed from when I was exclusively using M3. I used pre-shave oils, sivertip badger brushes, high quality shave creams etc etc. I got great shaves with M3. Unfortunately that was accompanied by a lot of ingrown hairs. I haven't had any with a straight which I've been using exclusively for the last couple of weeks (i've been on holiday so had the time).

Talking of time, I was wondering if I should get a DE for those days when I just won't have time to straight shave. Do you think this is a good idea or should i just try to stay with a straight, and hopefully my technique and speed will improve.

Any suggestions for a particular DE ???

Northpole

I don't shave with a DE very often, but when I do I prefer the gillette fatboy.

I prefer the single edge razor when I don't have time for a straight shave or to do some clean up if the shave starts to run to long and I need to finish up.
My favorite is the 1901 Gem Junior, but others that are good are what's called the G bar or a Micromatic.
Ray

I have a bunch of DEs, but the one I'm using right now is a Gillette Superspeed, circa 1955. I have a Fatboy as well, and it's supposed to be a great razor, but I haven't tried it out yet.

Actually, I have a couple of DEs that I'd be willing to part with for a reasonable price. PM me if you're interested.

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mparker762

I should have said better prep and technique. Nowadays M3 shavers don't bother prepping their beard, stretching their skin, or doing multiple passes. But if you do all those things that you normally do with a straight or DE, but use an M3 then you get a really impressive shave, much much better than our collective memory of what a "M3 shave" was like, because those shaves were generally unprepped, unstretched, single pass shaves. And that prickly stubble was largely an artifact of this lousy prep and technique than of the razor being used.

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I agree completely with this. When I was getting started with straights I had a week or two with some decent creams & soaps but no strop yet, so I started using those instead of canned lather with my M3.

Using good lather, technique, and rinsing the blades out more frequently instead of making long passes the length of my face gave me much better M3 shaves than I was accustomed to. It left the skin feeling a little fuzzy or felted though compared to the smoothness you get with a straight.

I don't know if this is of any interest, but once I thought why not just shave against the grain 1st? Well I tried it (just to be safe with one of my DE's) with disastrous results. My neck looked like raw meat when I was done. So I guess you have to cut the hairs down 1st with the grain in order to allow the blade to pass smoothly over the skin against the grain. :shrug:

I think maybe your skin can be conditioned to this...I am not sure. I have pretty sensitive skin -- when I use a Mach3, and when I started with the straight (have since corrected the angle), my chin would just bleed all over when I shaved it, spotty blood like the pores were just bleeding instead of growing hair or sweating or whatever.

That being said, all throughout boot we had to shave against the grain, and only against the grain. And we shaved quite quickly, I might add. :P It wasn't comfortable at all at first, but I know folks who never stopped shaving like that (sadly, for many, that was the first instruction they ever received on the subject), and they can & do still shave that way...

It always gave me horrendous razor burn at first, and by the end, even though the burn was gone, my face would itch and be irritated all day. But it seemed like after awhile it adapted to the constant ATG-only shaving. *shrug*

My experience was similar. I always shaved ATG with my Mach 3, and my face did adapt to some extent. But it was never comfortable--just somewhere between irritated and burned. :(

It also wasn't very close.

Josh

They made you do a one pass against the grain shave:eek: those Sargeants are really animals!:roflmao

Hey, I did it to myself voluntarily for years. Yowch.

Josh

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Originally Posted by joshearl

...One day I noticed that this stubble looked blond...

Josh

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And here I thought I was just getting old...:p

Jordan

When I first started shaving I used an Atra I think it was(gillette 2-blade fixed head) with no lather, no wetting the face, just dip the blade in the sink and shave against the grain, one pass and I was done. I did it like this through college, and I guess my face just got used to it over the years. I grew a beard after watching the movie "Gettysburg" and a few years later when I shaved it off I couldn't do it anymore.