Trouble going ATG on parts of my neck... Suggestions?

Gentlemen,

So, after several weeks of entering this journey, I've found myself a little perplexed and getting slight razor burn on my neck, but only going ATG, and only in the valley between my trachea the sides of my neck.

After mapping my facial hair, the pattern is something like this:

Attachment 128565

I have a beard that traces my jaw line, covers my chin and a mustache as well. I really only shave my cheeks and neck. On my cheeks, the pattern is straight down, so no issues there. On my neck, however, on my trachea the pattern goes straight down, but tapers smaller the further down I go. Everywhere else, it begins to grow to the sides, as indicated by the green arrows in my (crude) drawing. The areas I'm really having an issue with are circled in red. I can go WTG and XTG just fine with no irritation, but going against the grain either results in razor burn or non-BBS shaves.

For the record, I'm using a Geneva Cutlery Co. straight, 4/8 extra hollow round tip.

One question I have is do you think that switching to a razor with a curved spine, like this one would help?

Attachment 128566

My reasoning is that the blade will fit the contour of that valley better, resulting in less pressure and less strokes.

Any thoughts, folks?

I've always had problems with certain areas of my neck and to tell you the truth I've pretty much given up trying to get BBS on my entire neck. However, there are certain razors that seem to do the job. Why? I'm not sure but I guess it's a combination of size and shape and geometry which makes the razor more maneuverable and better able to get into tight areas. I know with a kamisori I have no issues at all getting the neck.

I have to agree with TBS above certain razors do better.. and certain spots are just a PITA

Things that have to come together just right for a successful pass..

1. The edge, this is number one on the list this has to be really really good not just sorta good
2. Your Technique must be up to the edge
3. The razor itself must be able to match #1 & #2
4. The conditions, basically the lather and the passes that came before have to be better than just OK

Thanks for the quick responses, gents.

Glen,

I know my lather is good (plenty wet, good cushion, blade moves very slick). Also, my WTG and XTG passes in these two spots are definitely comfortable (no tugging, skipping, etc.).

My edge SEEMS okay... though, even though it's shaving comfortably WTG and XTG (and even ATG on my cheeks), I still wonder if it could be better. Once I get my Norton set in (and, man, next Thursday REALLY needs to get here), I'm definitely going to see what can be done in the honing dept. to make a difference (with your videos playing all the while :) ). So far, this razor has only seen time on a DMT to remove some chips and a small crack, some 1k wet/dry paper and a LOOOONNNG time on my barber's hone and strop. Given all of that, I'm surprised it shaves so well.

As for my technique, well, I'm obviously still learning, but up until this last week or so, I haven't had an issue. I know something has changed for sure, it's just a process of elimination to figure out what, be it prep, edge, technique, blade geometry, etc. :)

By the way, I definitely want to thank you and everyone else here for being such a great community. All the knowledge and wisdom here is astounding, and I know I wouldn't have come as far as I have without you guys.

You have the right idea, you just keep adjusting one thing at a time and usually it will lead to success... :)

Yes, a smiling blade will help in the hollows of the neck :). But changing equipment is not always a substitute for proper technique....

The red circled areas are also some of the toughest for me. I found a pulling stretch, toward the back of my neck is key to getting those areas. Oddly enough, in my case, both the right and left hollows respond best to pulling toward the right side. Early on I tried pulling the left side to the left and the results weren't good. Pulling toward the right did the trick I also have to manipulate the razor in a partially XTG, ATG direction. Not true straight up ATG but on an oblique angle to the vertical. Anyway ..... give it a shot. :gl:

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

Yes, a smiling blade will help in the hollows of the neck :). But changing equipment is not always a substitute for proper technique....

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I agree... Not a substitute, more of a crutch to help with muscle memory and reducing what irritation I have so that I can practice more. :)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Not true straight up ATG but on an oblique angle to the vertical. Anyway ..... give it a shot. :gl:

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So, similar to scything?

As an aside, this is why I love this place... All you guys rock!

All I wanna do right now is go lather up. :)

I have a similar beard, probably smaller, very tough hairs. A low profile to start the stroke is necessary for me on the ATG. also, shorter strokes with good lather present are a must. Sometimes, a blade must "dig" to get through, but let it go through at it's own pace, as it were! Heavy growths are hard on blades! Always were, always will be!

Haha! Yeah, I definitely don't try and force the blade. I made that mistake once going ATG up towards my chin. Once:eek:. That was enough...

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The red circled areas are also some of the toughest for me. I found a pulling stretch, toward the back of my neck is key to getting those areas. Oddly enough, in my case, both the right and left hollows respond best to pulling toward the right side. Early on I tried pulling the left side to the left and the results weren't good. Pulling toward the right did the trick I also have to manipulate the razor in a partially XTG, ATG direction. Not true straight up ATG but on an oblique angle to the vertical. Anyway ..... give it a shot. :gl:

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That was dangerous for me to learn. I still have to be careful and frankly am more successful some days than others. But that's part of the fun. Safety razor shaving bores me if I do it 3-4 days in a row. I don't get bored with a straight because I enjoy the challenge and the superior results.

I think the Merkur 37C Slant safety razor is better than all the other safety razors because it attacks hard to get areas in much the same manner.

For me it has been a good skin stretch, a perfectly honed and stropped blade, care to brush up the hairs when applying lather and an aggressive angle on the blade. This works for me whether its a smiler or a straight blade.

All you need is that alien skin stretching machine from that Star trek Movie and you will have no problems getting the most difficult areas with ease and as a bonus any skin wrinkles will be gone.

I think we all had or have similar areas that are hard to get to. I recently started using a slicing stroke, heel leading at about 30 degree angle(I first started at 45 but the I cut myself a couple times, minor didn't need the styptic) . I started on the neck about 2 weeks ago and I'm getting it done in 2 passes and a little touch up. My edges are lasting longer also. I got 15 shaves so far without the crox and the edge is still cutting fine.

Also, look into youtubes on scything cut motions. The one by hibudgl100 shows it very well.

Thanks for the input, guys. Luckily, my Norton starter set came in yesterday.:y I lapped everything up except the 220 side of the 220/1k stone (I'm tipping my hat to you, Glen, for the awesome video on lapping) for what seemed like ages using the lapping stone that came with the kit. Afterwards, I honed up 3 of my razors using just the 4k/8k stone (again, thanks to Glen's posts on YouTube) and finished on my barber's hone. I then stropped 50 linen and 50 leather, and all three were popping arm hairs like the Grim Reaper himself had tempered the blade in the fires of Hades and honed it with his own rage.

And by then, it was 11:30 and too late to shave. :(

But, at least now I know that I can begin to eliminate variables. I figure start with sharpness, then move to technique, then lather then skin care/prep/post routines.

Either way, I will find the linchpin in this and learn along the way.

I seem to remember something about Edision saying "If I find 10,000 ways a razor won't shave, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward."

Or wait, maybe he was referring to light bulbs?:shrug:

I'm looking forward to reading your results with the newly honed blade!

Well, I finally got to shave last night (and tried to reply here as well, but life kept getting in the way).

The result: BBS:rock: with just the slightest hint of burn (only in the hollows of my neck) for a couple of hours afterward. I attribute the burn to having to make so many short scything strokes in the hollows to get to BBS. I also managed to nick my neck once, just above my Adam's Apple, but the styptic pencil made short work of that.

I really focused on angle, pressure and stroke pattern whilst shaving this time. Combined with the sharpness of the blade, all in all I'd say it was a success. I'm going to continue using the same blade for the next few shaves to see if it mellows out just a bit... my understanding is that some of us experience that a shave or two down the road from a fresh honing session. After that, I plan on using a smiling Geneva straight I just recently got in (actually, all my straights are Geneva/Genco except for a Birko with a shortened blade I found on the bay for $5) just the hollows of my neck to see if that helps any.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and encouragement!! I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is why I love this place!!!

rub in a little olive or grape seed oil on the hollows of your neck right after the shower and in addition to any other prep you do. This will likely prevent any future burn.

Have you tried rubbing alum on your fingertips to aid in really stretching problem areas? This makes a noticeable difference for me. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by 1holegrouper

rub in a little olive or grape seed oil on the hollows of your neck right after the shower and in addition to any other prep you do. This will likely prevent any future burn.

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I actually use a DIY preshave oil made from olive oil, glycerine, vitamin E oil and tea tree oil. It definitely helps lock in the moisture from the shower while I have my hot towel on myface and neck and keeps my face slick.

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Originally Posted by Wayne1963

Have you tried rubbing alum on your fingertips to aid in really stretching problem areas? This makes a noticeable difference for me. Good luck.

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I actually don't have an alum block, though I've been meaning to get one. I can definitely say that my finger tips are slick while stretching my skin, so I'll give this a try for sure. Thanks for the tip!

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Originally Posted by crouton976

I actually don't have an alum block, though I've been meaning to get one. I can definitely say that my finger tips are slick while stretching my skin, so I'll give this a try for sure. Thanks for the tip!

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Having a hand towel near by to dry off your fingertips works as well. Also holding a wet washcloth with your non shaving hand. You can always grip your skin well with the washcloth to stretch whatever is needed. The alum block on the finger tips works but not overly well in comparison and is mainly a carry over from traditional methods used in the past.

I actually may need to try both the alum and the towel to dry my finger tips, as I've been trying just drying. Or, for that matter, maybe even use the dry towel to help grip my skin.

Thanks!!