Martin103 enables an old dog to learn a new trick. Circa 1841 !

I read Martin103's post of a magazine article here with great interest. "Razors and Comfortable Shaving", From the Magazine of Domestic Economy 1841. I was intrigued enough to try one of the author's assertions in my shaving routine. First let me say that I tend to be a creature of habit. I've been cold water shaving with very little prep for a couple of years now. I always strop before and after the shave with no exceptions. I've read suggestions to try shaving straight off the hones and have never tried. Not even once.

So when I read that the best way to get the most out of your razor was to strop it after the shave, never before, I was interested. I must add that , having a lot of razors, I have a very large rotation. I might not shave with a given razor for months, usually a different one daily. So following the author's instructions, I picked a Ralf Aust and a TI Super Gnome to use in my little experiment.

I rotated with these, shaving daily, alternating between one and the other, and only stropped 30 round trips on leather after the shave. Over 2 weeks of this and both razors are still shaving superbly and as seemingly as sharp as when I began my little experiment. Lynn honed the Ralf Aust and I did the TI Super Gnome. I had always been a believer in linen/leather before the shave and leather only after. I probably will go back to my larger rotation habit but I'm going to continue only stropping after the shave as long as it continues to work.

Thanks to Martin103 for facilitating this old dog learning yet another trick. :tu

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JimmyHAD, it is so good to be reminded that old dogs can learn new tricks.

Hope for this ole bugga yet :w

Thanks for sharing that. Something new to try.

Glad thats working out for you Jimmy, sounds very interesting, thats a quick stropping routine (30) definately worth trying.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Glad thats working out for you Jimmy, sounds very interesting, thats a quick stropping routine (30) definately worth trying.

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Believe me Martin, if it didn't work I would have hung it up after a day or two. Still going strong weeks into it.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Believe me Martin, if it didn't work I would have hung it up after a day or two. Still going strong weeks into it.

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Be interesting to see how long you can keep that going.

off the top of my head there were some assertions made by the author that I don't hold to. Foremost his saying that if a razor is lessening in sharpness let it sit for 2 weeks and try it again. The edge will have self restored. I don't believe that is correct. He favors hot water over cold and I am a firm cold water shaving advocate. YMMV.

He also recommends running the razor under hot water before doing passes. I did that today and the jury is still out. It wasn't better but it wasn't worse. Out of the 1905 or '06 booklet, that I got the cold water method from, the author of that recommends two WTG passes rather than a WTG, ATG. He says the results are not far from the alternative WTG/ATG and no risk of irritation. I've done that many times and I like it.

Interesting posts. I have a respected friend who shaves with a straight all his adult life and says " never strop after shaving" I do strop after a shave to clean the edge and he does not. We both shave and enjoy our shaves and razors. I cannot do a good Against the grain because of limitations and hair growth patterns and use WTG and across the grain. I have better luck with some soaps that others hate.
I also try ideas and some have born fruits!
Thanks for the thread!
~Richard

Thanks Richard. Reading some of these old tomes on straight razor shaving is very informative IMO. Especially those written when it was the 'only game in town', before the safety razor made the straight obsolete for most men. I've always stropped following cleaning and drying the razor after the shave. No one told me to do it or not do it. I figured it would be insurance that I got any moisture, micro gunk out of the striations of the bevel that wiping missed.

I have always been a firm believer in stropping prior to the shave. Linen and leather. I never had any truck with those who are leather only. Until now. This business of stropping following the shave is working a treat. I'm not proselytizing on that or cold water shaving. If someone wants to try it give it a go. If not that is fine too. If it is working why fix it.

So why this 'new' way circa 1841 working for me is what I've been pondering. We talk about how fragile our paper thin edges are. Could it be that all of that prior stropping is microscopically working the edge bak and forth ? Kind of work hardening it as we strop ? I don't know what the answer is. Food for thought though. .

Now that I think about this, my better shaves are when I don't strop before shaving. I am at the stage where I'm still trying to use all my acquisitions, and that they don't get much repeated use, but strop on fabric and leather after honing, and I am generally happier with a shave if I leave any additional stropping until after shaving.

On the subject of Martin's articles, the other point I found helpful was having a little more angle when stropping my wedgier razors, I have found that to help a bit too. Interesting bits to glean from the past.

Call me stupid,I am not understanding this,so your not stropping pre shave,Only post shave,put the blade away till next use.
Haul it out and shave (no stropping)but the reality is it was stropped pre shave after you used it last.
Whats the purported advantage to doing this?? Just curious.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Call me stupid,I am not understanding this,so your not stropping pre shave,Only post shave,put the blade away till next use.
Haul it out and shave (no stropping)but the reality is it was stropped pre shave after you used it last.
Whats the purported advantage to doing this?? Just curious.

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Gives a bunch of old guys something to talk about ! :popcorn:

Kidding aside Bill, you make a relevant point and I didn't see that until you said it. Well, in effect I guess it is of a piece. I mean that if you strop after the shave, you are stropping before the next shave. The difference in my particular case is about 30 to 50 linen/leather additional immediately before the shaves.

I'm not going to bother looking it up right now but, IIRC , most all barber manuals recommend stropping right before the shave. I cannot explain why only stropping after the shave is advantageous, I only know it is working just spiffy for me. :thinking:

Well you know darn well I will try it,just seems so unatural:)

Holy Mackerel Andy. Only the older guys will know what that means....................

There must have been about 20,000,000 barbers since the dawn of man and until today, each and every one of them have recommended washing the beard with hot water and soap followed by 2 or 3 applications of moist hot towels on the beard. 20,000,000 barbers can't be wrong. I have been shaving straight for more than 45 years and the very best shaves I have ever gotten have been HOT as mentioned above.


I salvage industrial wastewater for a living and I know what hot water is capable of doing. It is one of the most efficient softening agents on the planet. A cold water shave is not scientifically viable. 6 billion people on the planet bath in hot water. Hello boys and girls. Dish washers clean by softening food particles with hot water. We steam clean our engine compartments. We steam clean the sidewalks in front of WalMarts and Supermarkets etc. We heat plastic and rubber so it is more pliable. Heat is better. Heat softens PERIOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You don't cook your food with cold. You cook it with heat to soften it.

I didn't write this post for myself. I wrote it for Pixelfixed so he won't feel so unnatural. Thanks..........

Jerry

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

Holy Mackerel Andy. Only the older guys will know what that means....................

There must have been about 20,000,000 barbers since the dawn of man and until today, each and every one of them have recommended washing the beard with hot water and soap followed by 2 or 3 applications of moist hot towels on the beard. 20,000,000 barbers can't be wrong. I have been shaving straight for more than 45 years and the very best shaves I have ever gotten have been HOT as mentioned above.


I salvage industrial wastewater for a living and I know what hot water is capable of doing. It is one of the most efficient softening agents on the planet. A cold water shave is not scientifically viable. 6 billion people on the planet bath in hot water. Hello boys and girls. Dish washers clean by softening food particles with hot water. We steam clean our engine compartments. We steam clean the sidewalks in front of WalMarts and Supermarkets etc. We heat plastic and rubber so it is more pliable. Heat is better. Heat softens PERIOD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You don't cook your food with cold. You cook it with heat to soften it.

I didn't write this post for myself. I wrote it for Pixelfixed so he won't feel so unnatural. Thanks..........

Jerry

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You're assuming that softer stubble shaves off better than unsoftened stubble. I don't know, but isn't it possible that harder stubble is easier to cut because it stands up to the razor, and hot water is just used because it feels nice? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Matt69

You're assuming that softer stubble shaves off better than unsoftened stubble. I don't know, but isn't it possible that harder stubble is easier to cut because it stands up to the razor, and hot water is just used because it feels nice? Just a thought.

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How old are you, Matt?

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

How old are you, Matt?

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Forty-three, why?

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Call me stupid,I am not understanding this,so your not stropping pre shave,Only post shave,put the blade away till next use.
Haul it out and shave (no stropping)but the reality is it was stropped pre shave after you used it last.
Whats the purported advantage to doing this?? Just curious.

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There may be two effects going on here.

I agree it seems counterintuitive when you put it like that, but you could be work hardening the edge with the strop as it is brought back into shape and then something called 'age hardening' where the metal's structure becomes stronger over time. This can occur even at room temperatures (but is more normally performed at a higher temperature in non ferrous alloys). This would mean that if you delay your shave after stropping the age hardening process will have time to affect the metal and give you a better edge. There is probably a sweet spot though. Leave it too long and edge damage might occur through normal corrosion, no matter how slight. And these things have an improvement curve that gets shallower so after x hours you wouldn't feel any noticeable improvement.

You've inspired me to strop now and shave later as a trial.

Might also be interesting to see if there are any metallurgists out there who can tell us more? Especially differences between carbon and stainless. I know some stainless steels are age hardened so that could make a difference and explain the favoured regimes by different users.

Could also explain the legends of razors being sharpened by moonlight. No need to rush into the garden, just leave it in the draw for a few hours! ;)

Who Knows,I don't strop right after a shave,I have an aversion to stropping a just used warm blade.I do strop maybe a couple hrs later,oil and put the blade away.
In Jims local,maybe a cold shave just feels better,In my town they are calling for Sats temp to be 111,a cold water shave may be the best one yet:)

As I recall, when I did the stropping experiment years ago stropping after shaving only, gave inferior results. I also don't recall ever seeing a barber strop after a shave.

If I used my strop to clean my razor after each shave, I'd have to shave the strop with my razor to get the crap off of it. Then I'd be right back where I started. Because I'm already at where I was when I started, there doesn't seem to be much point to going through all that to get there again.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

As I recall, when I did the stropping experiment years ago stropping after shaving only, gave inferior results. I also don't recall ever seeing a barber strop after a shave.

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Maybe stropping relaxes the hand and wrist :)

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

[...] I didn't write this post for myself. I wrote it for Pixelfixed so he won't feel so unnatural. Thanks..........

Jerry

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Good luck with that, Jerry!

Regards,
Neil (old guy)

Jimmy, been over a few months since your original post, are you still using this stropping method?

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Jimmy, been over a few months since your original post, are you still using this stropping method?

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Indeed I am Martin. It is working so I'm not going to 'fix' it ....... :)

I have always believed that microscopic bits remain on a bevel an edge and begin the oxidation process immediately, which is why I scrupulously clean my razors post shave with hot running water and dry repeatedly on a clean microfiber towel.

I do strop razors for this reason before storing in rotation. I too shave with a razor and my not see it again for months.

It makes sense that stropping post shave will remove even more oxidation producing material and keep the edge from deteriorating faster.

I also believe that steel does age harden, much like cement and that is partly why we are still shaving with 200 year old razors and swear by some of them, try cutting a Model A fender. Resting may produce a harder edge, how much I don’t know, I am not buying the self-sharpening by resting theory.

Warm water for me… for comfort if nothing else.

I know of age hardening in SS and especially in Al alloys but in carbon steel?
Most of the hardening as I understand is from a soft annealed state into a harder normal state, not to the tempered state we deal with...
Any metallurgists around?

A lot of the testing that have been done, shave hot/cold, let razors rest and so on, seem to give little or no real results, nor does it seem to harm the razor either.
But one of these days I'm sure we hit the jackpot, keep the testings going, I like it!