I can't get a straight razor to work

I have been experimenting with straight razors off and on for about two years and can not get a good shave from one. I can get a great shave from a feather artist club replaceable blade straight razor but it seems like a fixed blade just won't get sharp enough. I bought my own hones strops and everything and never could get a razor sharp enough. I finally broke down and bought one from straight razor designs to see what a pro sharpened blade feels like. It came in yesterday and it was sharper than what I had been able to do but it still would not take the hair off my face. So then I thought maybe I didn't strop well enough so I went back and took my time hitting the felt then the nylon and finally the leather and attempted to shave my head. It simply will not give me a close shave on my head or my face. My question is why can I get a perfect shave with the feather disposable blade straight razor but can't do anything with a fixed blade straight razor.

You stropped the SRD razor before using it? If so, the first thing I would look at is your stropping technique. I assume that would be the main difference between your shaves with a straight and with a shavette - if you do the same lather/prep etc for both.

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Originally Posted by jameshob

I have been experimenting with straight razors off and on for about two years and can not get a good shave from one. I can get a great shave from a feather artist club replaceable blade straight razor but it seems like a fixed blade just won't get sharp enough. I bought my own hones strops and everything and never could get a razor sharp enough. I finally broke down and bought one from straight razor designs to see what a pro sharpened blade feels like. It came in yesterday and it was sharper than what I had been able to do but it still would not take the hair off my face. So then I thought maybe I didn't strop well enough so I went back and took my time hitting the felt then the nylon and finally the leather and attempted to shave my head. It simply will not give me a close shave on my head or my face. My question is why can I get a perfect shave with the feather disposable blade straight razor but can't do anything with a fixed blade straight razor.

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Do you shave at a 30 degree angle? That was my initial problem, that and putting too much pressure on the razor against my face. I couldn't do it, then I paid attention to these things and began to get results.

I have never used a Feather straight, so I don't know the difference, but I have used other shavettes and they aren't quite the same.

I have tried all different angles and pressures. I'm not giving up on it though. I think it has to be my stropping. Can you over strop? Is there a way to test the razor as you strop to know when to quit?

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

Do you shave at a 30 degree angle? That was my initial problem, that and putting too much pressure on the razor against my face. I couldn't do it, then I paid attention to these things and began to get results.

I have never used a Feather straight, so I don't know the difference, but I have used other shavettes and they aren't quite the same.

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Start small and easy

Watch this vid and try to do the same and see what happens

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-test-vid.html

Nice video, really got me back to the basics of prepping for the shave. Unfortunately my razor failed the test. I've only shaved with it 3 times, its from SRDs so they honed it, and ive been really carefull with the stropping. I guess I could try to touch it up myself. I have all the stones but I wouldn't think that I would need to getting it from SRDs. I did, however, get the best shave of my life with my Feather DX Japanese style "no sharpen" straight razor. I love that razor! Thanks again for the shave prep refresher!

Why not try to touch it up then. If you have the stones, go for it. Stropping can do a lot of damage. Ive been honing and straight shaving since October and I only now let the strop go a little slack for a better finish. So I do 50 laps on the strop daily, for 9 months? that's like 13500 laps on the strop. So it does take a bit of time til you can get proficient at it. And I have 41 straights that were honed 3 or 4 x each. And I look at blades from 4 months ago and cant believe I honed them. Im not an expert but I see how time and experience shows you lots of things. Im looking forward to what I will be able to hone next year and the year after.

The only thing I can say is that when I shave with a good quality DE (feather blade in an ikon OC or Mühle R41, both pretty aggressive shavers, I never used an artist club or the likes) then in terms of ease, speed and smoothness (meaning the resistance felt when shaving) yes, it's better than with a straight, simply because I do think the blades are sharper than even a pro honed straight. But in terms of close shave a straight rules supreme (both feel perfectly smooth after the shave but with a straight it takes about 4 hours longer before I can feel the first roughness appearing). My guess is that if you really get no good result at all and you can exclude insufficient sharpening, it has to do with technique rather than stropping, check your angle. I don't believe in hanging hair tests etc, unless you want to use the razor for cutting hanging hairs and not for shaving. Had razors that passed the hht after stropping but gave a lousy shave and and experienced cases where it didn't pass at all but the shaves were incredible.

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Originally Posted by jameshob

Nice video, really got me back to the basics of prepping for the shave. Unfortunately my razor failed the test. I've only shaved with it 3 times, its from SRDs so they honed it, and ive been really carefull with the stropping. I guess I could try to touch it up myself. I have all the stones but I wouldn't think that I would need to getting it from SRDs. I did, however, get the best shave of my life with my Feather DX Japanese style "no sharpen" straight razor. I love that razor! Thanks again for the shave prep refresher!

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Simply put in that Vid and in the thread, until you can pass that test whether it be from Prep, Shaving Technique, Stropping or Honing,,,, perhaps a combination of all those, then nothing else really matters, you have to eliminate the variables one by one until you get the solution...

I have the same problem with straights. Very hard to cut my beard with one. The improvements I have made are in the area of prep. Prep that works for disposable blades is often not adequate for a straight shave. Yes, the Feather is sharper than the straight, but the straight is sharp enough for a good shave if your prep is good. Try not shaving for a couple of days to lengthen your beard because it is easier to measure the effectiveness of your prep on a longer beard. When you are doing your prep feel the beard as you progress. If you don't notice a softening/relaxing of the beard and an increase in the moistness of the hair, then you need to change what you are doing and find a way to achieve this. A clean but stiff beard is a tough challenge for any razor and especially a straight.

Two years of investment with no good outcome must be very frustrating for you. It could indeed be your stropping, but to prove that you'd need to send the razor back out to be honed again and then use it without stropping it. That would only work if the razor made it from the honer to you without much delay and in a dry environment (i.e. if it took a week in the post and it was humid weather, for instance, the edge may very well degrade over that time. Your profile doesn't tell us where you live. What I would do if I were you is try to find someone from the forum near you so you can visit and have a tutorial session. Considering how frustrated you may be at this point in time a road trip might in fact solve all your problems. There are so many variables, but we might gather your prep is not too bad as you can shave with a Feather razor; so your angle, pressure etc may also be quite good.

Why not add some data to your profile and you might find someone jumps in and says "Hey, you're just down the road from me; what say we get together and I show you some tricks of the trade?"

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Originally Posted by matloffm

I have the same problem with straights. Very hard to cut my beard with one. The improvements I have made are in the area of prep. Prep that works for disposable blades is often not adequate for a straight shave. Yes, the Feather is sharper than the straight, but the straight is sharp enough for a good shave if your prep is good. Try not shaving for a couple of days to lengthen your beard because it is easier to measure the effectiveness of your prep on a longer beard. When you are doing your prep feel the beard as you progress. If you don't notice a softening/relaxing of the beard and an increase in the moistness of the hair, then you need to change what you are doing and find a way to achieve this. A clean but stiff beard is a tough challenge for any razor and especially a straight.

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The feather may be sharper I know but a properly honed and stropped straight is MORE then sharp enough to shave your stubble to the skin. I've wrestled around with sharp, trying to see if I can hone one like a feather de blade, but the reality is you don't have to. And I prove this everyday with a bbs shave with no irritation, weepers etc. My neck stubble is like wire.(I'm 48 years old)And it grows sideways and flat but at the end of the shave, its all gone. And that's why I love a straight so much. I love the whole process, honing, stropping experimenting and learning. I'm only 9 months in and I don't know nothing compared to the experienced guys here, but I know enough to hone strop and get a bbs everyday.

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Originally Posted by bill3152

The feather may be sharper I know but a properly honed and stropped straight is MORE then sharp enough to shave your stubble to the skin. I've wrestled around with sharp, trying to see if I can hone one like a feather de blade, but the reality is you don't have to. And I prove this everyday with a bbs shave with no irritation, weepers etc. My neck stubble is like wire.(I'm 48 years old)And it grows sideways and flat but at the end of the shave, its all gone. And that's why I love a straight so much. I love the whole process, honing, stropping experimenting and learning. I'm only 9 months in and I don't know nothing compared to the experienced guys here, but I know enough to hone strop and get a bbs everyday.

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First, I accept that some shavers can get a BBS shave from a straight. My point is not to malign straights as a shaving tool but rather to not focus solely on the sharpness of the blade when a shaver has problems cutting their beard. The fact that an individual shaver gets a BBS from a straight does not prove that the blade is sufficiently sharp to cut every man's beard smoothly that close to the skin.

I don't bother trying for BBS with any razor. My face is not smooth enough to remove every hair to skin level without removing skin also. Sharpness is not the only factor in determining the quality of shave one can get with a straight or any shaving tool for that matter. The goal is to get the best shave you can given your face, beard and tool used.

I realize that shaving forums do proselytize and that's great. This forum does so for straight razor shaving. But there are many posts from people having problems using straights (and on other forums other shave tools) where the advice centers on digging deeper into the various skill sets required to use the tool. I believe we should be more sophisticated then that. We should promote getting the most comfortable and acceptable shave from or chosen tool and be willing to acknowledge that for some shavers the straight (or DE, SE, …) may not be the way to go.

Jameshob can get the shave he is looking for using a Feather AC razor but not a straight. This tells us he can shave with an exposed edge shaving tool (he can find the cutting angle and maneuver the blade) and that blade sharpness is the difference in the two experiences. I suggested he work on his prep. Why prep as opposed to honing and stropping skills. I know he will get the usual advice about improving blade sharpness. But actually improving blade sharpness to the level needed for his beard may not be realistic for him given the time he can devote to it and/or his skill level. Not everyone can maintain and use tools at a high level of competence. I am making no claim that I can. Most of us are in the middle somewhere. Under these average circumstances, a greater improvement in the shave might be obtained by spending more effort finding a way to improve beard preparation. If the beard is easier to cut, then the shave will improve given the shaver's current blade maintenance skills and they can still work on improving those.

Is it helpful to the new straight shaver to be promised a consistent BBS shave with just a splash of water and a good lather when we cannot know what the shaver's challenges really are? I enjoy using my straights much more since I changed my goal from BBS to the most comfortable/enjoyable, acceptably close shave I can get. This is now my goal no matter what shave tool I am using.

Well said, as soon as i stopped trying for the perfect shave, they just got progressively better.

I've been using straights for over two and a half years, honing them myself the entire time. It is still true, however, that I can get a closer shave with a Feather SS folder than I can with any of my straights. I just use that as a model for a perfect shave. The shaves I get with my straights are extremely smooth and totally acceptable, but the sharpness of the Feather blades is not something I expect to replicate with hand honing a straight razor. The difference is getting smaller the more I hone and shave. As to the OP's comment about trying straights "off and on", I know that it took me six months of dedicated effort every day to get to the point where my shaves were really close. If he can get a good shave with a Feather razor, then his technique is certainly adequate. Any resulting differences between those shaves and what he might get from a straight razor are a result of differences in sharpness. I think that just has to be accepted. The Feather blade sets a high standard among replaceable blades, and in a Feather SS it is reasonable to expect that it can give a shave unmatched by a regular straight razor.

I understand what you are saying. Everybody is different I know. Different beards ,skin ,skills etc. I can only share what my experience is. Nobody can judge your shave but you. And whatever works ,works.

One dumb question...

How much sharper do you guys think a Feather is then an Extra Hollow straight razor in microns ????? any guesses ???

My 2 cents is parts of what everybody else is saying. If your switching from a feather to a straight than I would use only the straight to give it an honest chance. Hopping back and fourth sounds bad for both experiences. If the straight just doesn't do it for you than give it up. Sounds like you were perfectly happy with the feather ?

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One dumb question...

How much sharper do you guys think a Feather is then an Extra Hollow straight razor in microns ????? any guesses ???

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I would bet the straight is sharper. If not it certainly is more stable, as in, less likely to bend under any pressure. I haven't been at this long but I have personally heard more stories of guys getting better shaves with a straight after switching as opposed to the other way around.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One dumb question...

How much sharper do you guys think a Feather is then an Extra Hollow straight razor in microns ????? any guesses ???

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Taking an educated guess here; feather maybe around 300-500 Angstrom so .3-.5 micron (I think of microtome blades as a reference but they're obviously made to even tighter tolerances than a DE)? Straight would very much depend on the honing/stropping I presume. Theoretically the same or even better but how consistent would the width be along the edge? I don't think the 'sharpness' at a particular point is the only variable at play but am ready to stand corrected b/c I freely admit to not being anywhere close to an expert.

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

I would bet the straight is sharper. If not it certainly is more stable, as in, less likely to bend under any pressure. I haven't been at this long but I have personally heard more stories of guys getting better shaves with a straight after switching as opposed to the other way around.

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Shavettes that use ½ a DE do have a stability problem, in my opinion, but the Feather AC blades are much thicker and very stable. I don't have a tool to measure the Feather's thickness at the edge, but if you visually compare it to a full hollow just up to the edge, it is thinner. I also compared it to my Hart 6/8 and it is much thinner. I don't know if this gives it an advantage when an edge is created. Is that a general rule, the thinner the starting thickness the sharper the edge?

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Originally Posted by jameshob

So then I thought maybe I didn't strop well enough so I went back and took my time hitting the felt then the nylon and finally the leather and attempted to shave my head. It simply will not give me a close shave on my head or my face. My question is why can I get a perfect shave with the feather disposable blade straight razor but can't do anything with a fixed blade straight razor.

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If you stropped heavily & with frustration the razor edge may now be a contributing factor.
The second question is usually to do with prep, lather & /or VIP,shaving angle. If you have the first 2 right try shaving with the blade flat on your face lifting the angle literally 1º at a time to find the optimal. You may be surprised to find just how flat the blade should be to shave correctly.

You have asked a question that is difficult to answer from a forum. Glad to hear you're not going to give up. The working part of a straight razor is you. I recommend you use your straight razor exclusively until you become proficient. It will happen. It may take some time and some mistakes, but you will get to the point where you are getting excellent shaves. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by matloffm

...I realize that shaving forums do proselytize and that's great. This forum does so for straight razor shaving. But there are many posts from people having problems using straights (and on other forums other shave tools) where the advice centers on digging deeper into the various skill sets required to use the tool. I believe we should be more sophisticated then that. We should promote getting the most comfortable and acceptable shave from or chosen tool and be willing to acknowledge that for some shavers the straight (or DE, SE, …) may not be the way to go...

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You're very right, however, I'd like to make a couple of points:

1. It IS the STRAIGHT razor place, so after all, if at times people assume shaving with a straight is the goal, then I guess they could be forgiven for that ;).
2. Your point is probably a great point as it strongly suggests when we try to help others we should gather some facts, such as what their goal is, what they know or don't know, and what they've done. As well as what they have access to (tools, people, knowledge).

Not that I know anything, really, but sometimes I see guys digging themselves deeper and deeper into a problem before anyone says "What sort of razor is it?" or "What are you trying to achieve?". As you suggest, some people are just after a decent shave; sometimes the first in their lives, and a straight may not be the right tool. Others have had many a 'nice' shave but want to shave with a straight; they want to shave with a straight and nothing else. The first question could be 'What do YOU want?". I

say this only because if I REALLY wanted to shave with a lovely vintage straight I'd be mightily saddened if someone directed me to a Feather.

I'd like to add that I'm agreeing with you, but just adding a bit of my own opinion...I just think your point is a very good one...

Carl

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One dumb question...

How much sharper do you guys think a Feather is then an Extra Hollow straight razor in microns ????? any guesses ???

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With all due respect to everyone whose tastes lean that way, I don't care, and to quote that kid in The School of Rock "They're tacky and I hate them..."

The School Of Rock - You're Tacky And I Hate You! (HD) - YouTube

The feather may be sharper but dont they use coatings like teflon or whatever? What happens to the coatings after 3 shaves? They come off. I guess a machine sharpened blade, ground so thin may end up with microchips(Im guessing) and why would they put a coating on if it wasnt necesary? Answer: they wouldnt cuz it costs time and money to do it. But if they didnt the blade would shave like crap! Ive used many de blades and the magic number was 4 shaves max before switching out with feathers, wilkinson swords lasted less than 3. But whoever finds the shavette or feather better for them should use them. I like my straights better, thats why I use em. If I liked a de blade better I would use that. And btw I shave with a shavette once a month. It humbles my honing skills! But in the end Im happy with what I got. And honing gives me an excuse to get away!

bill3152, I think the Feather blade in question is the Artist Club line which is not a flexible DE blade but a more rigid custom designed single edge. It's the nature of the AC blade that leads shavers to compare shaving with the Feather AC and a straight. The ½ DE blade shavettes are not that appealing to me and not as comparable to straights. I'd rather use a DE blade in a DE razor. The Feather AC system is, in my mind, more like shaving with a frame-back straight.

I hear this a lot and it is usually not the case.

With the disposable you can get away with a greater open angle than the straight razor when shaving. When using a straight razor, you really need to keep the razor almost vertical although the spine should not be touching your face. What most people do is hold the razor in an upright position and then when they start to shave, they bend their wrists back opening the angle up to as much as 90 degrees. Normally stropping is not the problem.

You should also just be shaving from one side burn to the jaw at first using light pressure and short little strokes with longer clean up strokes. Once the razor is cutting that area, you can then go to the cheeks, neck and save the chin for last. The overall learning experience is like starting all over again and you should treat it as such taking a couple weeks to get it down.

Have fun and hang in there.

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Originally Posted by jameshob

I have tried all different angles and pressures. I'm not giving up on it though. I think it has to be my stropping. Can you over strop? Is there a way to test the razor as you strop to know when to quit?

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Thanks Lynn....sorry I haven't replied to this post but I just went on vacation and haven't had the time to login. I only brought my de razor with me on vacation to my in laws but I shaved with it and they have much hotter water than I have at my house and the razor cut through my whiskers like butter, much smother than ever before. We have 2 1/2 year old triplets so we keep the water a little on the cooler side. It still gets hot but not near as hot as at my in laws. When I get back home I'm going to focus more on prep and keeping the blade warmer to see if that helps.

I have had very good results with my de and with my feather ac straight. I don't think it is even possible to get a better shave. I simply want to be able to sharpen strop and shave with a traditional fixed blade straight razor.