John Barber pair in piqued ivory

Figured I'd photograph this while the pair is together (one of them is going to Zak, naturally). A wonderful set of John Barbers in carved ivory, with pique-pin work. What is amazing about these is the condition that the scales, and the blades themselves, are in; most other examples I have seen of these are fairly beat up. Even more so, the spines are etched - these at one point were in a 7-day set, quite extravagant for the time I think.

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Batman and Robin strike again! wonderful Barbers! The blade profile is elegant and the scales pure artistry

Nice scales!

Great, you guys got them. Someday I will get to see one first hand then. Zak's collection is really something to see.

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

Great, you guys got them. Someday I will get to see one first hand then. Zak's collection is really something to see.

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I really hope some day to see ScienceGuy's in person! He's got me beat hands down.

Great score guys! Absolutely beautiful...

Beautiful set, they have the Square and Compasses, would these have belonged to a Freemason?

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Beautiful set, they have the Square and Compasses, would these have belonged to a Freemason?

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In the case of John Barber, it's not very clear. My understanding is that it was (and is) strongly frowned upon for Freemasons to make products advertising their affiliation. Barber used the square and compass as his mark, it wasn't an occasional or specialty mark, but on all his goods. So far, I haven't seen anything contemporary to his production that talks about the mark, so I just don't know what to make of it.

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Beautiful set, they have the Square and Compasses, would these have belonged to a Freemason?

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Hey Phrank...

The 'Set Square & Divider' were his makers mark...as well as the 'Crown WOLF' mark (used originally by Shepherd). Although the compass and square are Masonic Symbols as well, these blades were not necessarily owned by a Freemason.

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

In the case of John Barber, it's not very clear. My understanding is that it was (and is) strongly frowned upon for Freemasons to make products advertising their affiliation. Barber used the square and compass as his mark, it wasn't an occasional or specialty mark, but on all his goods. So far, I haven't seen anything contemporary to his production that talks about the mark, so I just don't know what to make of it.

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You beat me to it Zak! :beer1:

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Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

You beat me to it Zak! :beer1:

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Thanks guys! Fascinating stuff as always....:D

Hoboy! I got my half of this pair today, thank you ScienceGuy!

It surely does make for a dandy partner to my other Barber razor.

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...05/DSC0933.jpg

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...05/DSC0934.jpg

I can't say I've ever seen another like it that still had all the pins in the pique work.

Just like mine except not broken at the wedge pin - the only question I have is why haven't those showed up at my door.
I knew I am not using that pink whip often enough!!!!


If there was just one set of those, so far we've seen 4 of them. I have to check which day of the week is mine.

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Originally Posted by gugi

Just like mine except not broken at the wedge pin - the only question I have is why haven't those showed up at my door.
I knew I am not using that pink whip often enough!!!!


If there was just one set of those, so far we've seen 4 of them. I have to check which day of the week is mine.

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I snagged eBay pics of another pair like them, but kind of horrifically reground, patched up and generally held together with spit & baling wire. The eBay pair had double thumb-notches, but I think they were an aftermarket addition. They also had 'SILVER STEEL' as part of the spine stamp, so they definitely weren't part of the same set.

The one Hoglahoo posted on the wiki, on the other hand, has EXACTLY the same light regrind marks as this pair, which makes me awfully suspicious they came from the same set.

I got one pined, of a carved ivory pair. The pins were ok but there were a broken part which needed a reparation.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/33/95/13/captur14.jpg

Those two (three with the one in horn showed by Zak) are really neat. I'd like to find me a J. Barber :)

When I look at those scales I think of the term 'old world craftsmanship.' I wonder how many hours it took to carve, insert the decorative pins ? Out of the ordinary for sure. I think the same about the hand filed jimps seen on old Sheffields. Completely uniform in depth and spacing. Amazing the skill they had back in those days.

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Originally Posted by Thaeris

I got one pined, of a carved ivory pair. The pins were ok but there were a broken part which needed a reparation.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/33/95/13/captur14.jpg

Those two (three with the one in horn showed by Zak) are really neat. I'd like to find me a J. Barber :)

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Oh yes! I remember seeing the CCC thread about repairing those scales. Superb work!

Who made the blade that's in those scales?

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

When I look at those scales I think of the term 'old world craftsmanship.' I wonder how many hours it took to carve, insert the decorative pins ? Out of the ordinary for sure. I think the same about the hand filed jimps seen on old Sheffields. Completely uniform in depth and spacing. Amazing the skill they had back in those days.

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I'm guessing it probably took the old Sheffield scale hafters maybe as much as 20 minutes each for pairs of these scales.

Those old jimps, the perfect ones? The file cutters who did them worked faster than you could imagine. 2-3 grooves per second.

Those guys were FAST and incredibly good.

(And died young of grinders asthma, and were paid poorly)

The blade is a Michel Désiré Pradier's one :)

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Originally Posted by gugi

Just like mine except not broken at the wedge pin - the only question I have is why haven't those showed up at my door.
I knew I am not using that pink whip often enough!!!!


If there was just one set of those, so far we've seen 4 of them. I have to check which day of the week is mine.

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I went back and scrutinized the pics of yours and also the one Hoglahoo has in the SRP Wiki, and I think these four are all from the same set.

They've all got the same weird die irregularity on the 'JOHN BARBER' part. It's 'JOH N.BARBER', complete with extraneous punctuation, on all four, which tells me it was a damaged die that they were stamped with.

So, Hoglahoo... What day is yours?

If you find the whole set, you guys should arrange a reunion gather!

I did a partial restoration on the one I got, including a very light regrind to remove a previous very light regrind. (Thank you 10Pups!)

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...06/DSC0806.jpg

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...06/DSC0807.jpg

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...06/DSC0808.jpg

Heh. I'm so used to not polishing the jimps¹ out that I left a bit of crud there. Oh well! Easy to fix.

1. Traditionally the jimps were rarely ever polished, probably because most razors were polished on a lead lapping wheel and polishing the jimps would rake big grooves in the surface.

Splendide restoration ! :dropjaw:

Smaller parts, such as the tang and jimps, were often polished using small diameter wheels and wheels that were very thin. Longer flat surfaces were often dressed using plain hardwood wheels with 'deadened' (ie well used or pulverised) 'crocus' (hard iron oxide that accumulated against the bottom and sides of the baking pots - the softer type in the middle was sold to colourmen and jewellers) mixed with suet and beeswax, and small serrated surfaces like jimps were polished (mostly on the top) with a small wooden wheel dressed with very thick leather - this got into all the crevices, unlike the lead-lapped wheel which would be injured if brought up against a serrated surface.

Traditionally, walrus leather was used. It was/is so thick, that it was ideally suited for buffing wheels. Back in the day seal hide was substituted for walrus as it had the same sort of thickness and 'give' to it.

As more of a 'glaze' finish was required, the speed of the buffing wheel would go up from2,500 sfpm to over 7,000 sfpm and the wheel would change from soft walrus hide, to hard leather and then to plain hardwood.

Regards,
Neil

The terms used were 'black polishing' for the main part of the blade and 'glazing' for the shanks, tail, etc.

The work was carried out by women and small boys usually.

Great job on the Barber Zak! It really came out nice. Can't wait to see it!

Great post Neil! I've been experimenting with a 'soft' satin look using 800 grit Crocus cloth and I really like the way the finish looks. I wonder if a hard wheel (maybe Sisal?) that has been pasted or 'rubbed with' lead... similar to a lead pasted strop... would work like a lead lapping plate? I think I might give it a try to see what happens... :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Smaller parts, such as the tang and jimps, were often polished using small diameter wheels and wheels that were very thin. Longer flat surfaces were often dressed using plain hardwood wheels with 'deadened' (ie well used or pulverised) 'crocus' (hard iron oxide that accumulated against the bottom and sides of the baking pots - the softer type in the middle was sold to colourmen and jewellers) mixed with suet and beeswax, and small serrated surfaces like jimps were polished (mostly on the top) with a small wooden wheel dressed with very thick leather - this got into all the crevices, unlike the lead-lapped wheel which would be injured if brought up against a serrated surface.

Traditionally, walrus leather was used. It was/is so thick, that it was ideally suited for buffing wheels. Back in the day seal hide was substituted for walrus as it had the same sort of thickness and 'give' to it.

As more of a 'glaze' finish was required, the speed of the buffing wheel would go up from2,500 sfpm to over 7,000 sfpm and the wheel would change from soft walrus hide, to hard leather and then to plain hardwood.

Regards,
Neil

The terms used were 'black polishing' for the main part of the blade and 'glazing' for the shanks, tail, etc.

The work was carried out by women and small boys usually.

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Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

Great post Neil! I've been experimenting with a 'soft' satin look using 800 grit Crocus cloth and I really like the way the finish looks. I wonder if a hard wheel (maybe Sisal?) that has been pasted or 'rubbed with' lead... similar to a lead pasted strop... would work like a lead lapping plate? I think I might give it a try to see what happens... :shrug:

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Using a serious respirator!

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Using a serious respirator!

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:rofl2: ...I was wondering who was going to be the first to mention that Zak. :tu

Here's a quick shot of the Elliot Zak. Not a good pic but you get the idea...crocus finish:

Attachment 169176

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Using a serious respirator!

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You mean don't just pull your shirt up over your nose?
I'll stand outside the garage when wolfpack gets it going :)

By the way zak that razor looks fantastic.

wow that set is so nice! good clean up aswell!

beautiful scales!

I have had the pleasure of holding this razor and it looks better live that's for sure. Not that your photography is bad Zak :<0).... I have to admit I closed my eyes and held my hands over my ears when he tightened the pivot pin. My pin anvil is very sturdy but still ....