Wade and Butcher For Barbers Use WR - a rare one

This is the first one of these I have seen. I know Zak has an even earlier For Barbers Use (Barber John Barber), but this is the earliest explicit one that I have, coming from 1830-37. Stamped "Magnetic Razor"; indeed a magnet does stick to it, but so too to a number of other razors, so I'll assume for now it was just a gimmick. It's hard to tell from the pictures but obvious once in hand, that this razor has actually been reground; the job was fantastic and just left a little wave in the finish on both sides, but it is not quite the original undisturbed finish that I was hoping for. Well, I still can't say that I'm not 100% satisfied with this one though. An amazing piece.

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If it was reground, it surely must have been on the lower half. The etch seems perfect! Nice!

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

If it was reground, it surely must have been on the lower half. The etch seems perfect! Nice!

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Nope, it was the whole blade face. It's hard to tell from the pics but you can see a very faint line vertical from the heel. And of course when I say 'regrind', it was likely more just a touchup on a high grit wheel to reset the razor, but still enough to slightly disturb the original finish.

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

Nope, it was the whole blade face. It's hard to tell from the pics but you can see a very faint line vertical from the heel. And of course when I say 'regrind', it was likely more just a touchup on a high grit wheel to reset the razor, but still enough to slightly disturb the original finish.

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Was the original finish crocus or glaze?

Either way it is a beautiful piece.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Was the original finish crocus or glaze?

Either way it is a beautiful piece.

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Crocus on the face (and extension into the bottom of the tang), and hard to say on the tang itself but I think glaze. I have a Greaves Sheaf Works pressed horn that has a very similar grind and polish.

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

Crocus on the face (and extension into the bottom of the tang), and hard to say on the tang itself but I think glaze. I have a Greaves Sheaf Works pressed horn that has a very similar grind and polish.

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OK, I understand where you're coming from now. I was having difficulty visualizing any regrinding due to the stamp on the blade being so pristine.

IF it still offends you, I'll be glad to give a home. ;) I'll let it send a selfie and postcard every now and then to let you know how it's getting along in Tejas.

I like it. It's a neat piece of history. Good catch.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

IF it still offends you, I'll be glad to give a home. ;) I'll let it send a selfie and postcard every now and then to let you know how it's getting along in Tejas.

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You know, yeah, I just can't stand that imperfection. PM me your address, it's yours for a fiver.

LMAO!

A WHOLE fiver? ;)

Check your inbox.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

LMAO!

A WHOLE fiver? ;)

Check your inbox.

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Somehow, I think there are two interpretations of a 'fiver' here! :rofl2:

Still a beautiful razor.

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

This is the first one of these I have seen. I know Zak has an even earlier For Barbers Use (Barber John Barber), but this is the earliest explicit one that I have, coming from 1830-37. Stamped "Magnetic Razor"; indeed a magnet does stick to it, but so too to a number of other razors, so I'll assume for now it was just a gimmick. It's hard to tell from the pictures but obvious once in hand, that this razor has actually been reground; the job was fantastic and just left a little wave in the finish on both sides, but it is not quite the original undisturbed finish that I was hoping for. Well, I still can't say that I'm not 100% satisfied with this one though. An amazing piece.

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ScienceGuy, very nice piece & very interesting, I like it a lot!

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Somehow, I think there are two interpretations of a 'fiver' here! :rofl2:

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Abe's on his way up and Wade's on his way over. :p ;)

Mike ROCKS!!

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Abe's on his way up and Wade's on his way over. :p ;)

Mike ROCKS!!

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Guys, hope you don't get TOO old ....... I had to read that 3 times before I figured it out ! .......... :gaah:

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Abe's on his way up and Wade's on his way over. :p ;)

Mike ROCKS!!

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WooooooHoooo! :y

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Guys, hope you don't get TOO old ....... I had to read that 3 times before I figured it out ! .......... :gaah:

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Same here! :rofl2:

Crikey Wullie.......I have $6 loose change in my pocket once you get bored with it...

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Crikey Wullie.......I have $6 loose change in my pocket once you get bored with it...

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Hey we might be onto something, we can call it the fi' dollah pass around razor. :rofl2:

That would only work until I got my hands on it. But... HELL YEAH... har har.

Fine India steel, magnetic razor, for barbers use, with a W R Crown, fantastic find for sure, very unusual, great find!

Thats said im having a really hard time with the regrind, the etch on the blade looks better then the one on the tang! if the whole face of the razor had a regrind job the stamp on the blade would be affected, i dont see any evidence of that at all.JMHO

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Crikey Wullie.......I have $6 loose change in my pocket once you get bored with it...

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Hey we might be onto something, we can call it the fi' dollah pass around razor. :rofl2:

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Yeah, it cots more than that just to send a priority box!

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Fine India steel, magnetic razor, for barbers use, with a W R Crown, fantastic find for sure, very unusual, great find!

Thats said im having a really hard time with the regrind, the etch on the blade looks better then the one on the tang! if the whole face of the razor had a regrind job the stamp on the blade would be affected, i dont see any evidence of that at all.JMHO

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Shhhhhh, Martin! Wullie has it all sorted! :roflmao

I have to agree that I don't think it was a regrind. Looks fantastic either way.

Ground, Re-Ground, buffed in Foo-Foo dust, whatever...

That is one great looking razor, thanks for sharing..

On ones from that era, the blade slogans were usually a die-stamp, not an etch, and consequently deep enough to survive a really light surface grind.

That said, never discount the possibility that the original grind was just a little bit wacky. Each guy responsible for a part of that razor did 30 or more that same day.

wow! is it truly magnetic?!?

When I hear the word "re-grind" or "re-ground" it makes me think of some serious sparks flying and heavy steel removal on a grinding wheel. Not touching up the blade with high grit sand paper. A nice find and nice blade indeed.

I'll try to get some better pics tonight with my macro lens so we can get better evidence. I have handled a lot of blades where the crocus polish is disturbed (asymmetrically or non-professional looking), but where very little metal was taken off, and the same is the case here leading to my 'regrind' thought, but maybe regrind isn't the right word. Maybe it was just a worker who went back over the blade face with another wheel.

Here's a macro shot of the border between the blade face and the tang. It should be seamless but it has grinding marks on the blade face.

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I see what you mean. Pretty lightly done. Could be that 'last pass' or later clean-up. These things could tell a story!

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

Here's a macro shot of the border between the blade face and the tang. It should be seamless but it has grinding marks on the blade face.

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Hmm. Yeah.

On one hand, it looks like it's definitely been touched by a grinder or something. On the other, the oxidized spots in the long cut look to be the same age and character as the ones on the blade.

Maybe it was just cleaned with a fine, rotary wire brush? I'm also not seeing any sign that it dug into the transition between spine and blade face.

That one's real hard to tell.

I know very little about this so a question- "the vertical lines are from a grinder? Did they ever look like this from being ground by hand on a grinding wheel?"

I have a few older blades that have these faint lines too. Does that automatically mean they were re-ground? Or is it because the lines go in the seam between blade and tang?

Alot of razors are ground with two wheels, one on each side of the razor and the worker moves the razor back and forth. Those lines could be from someone with a not so steady head and shifting the razor or from inconsistency in the wheels as well as other factors. Some newer razors are made from belts, whether it be one on each side or just one free handed. Seems to be easier to get more even grinding when done with two or if machines are controlling the grinding and only doing one side at a time.

As for the old ones, there were different finishes, most notable crocus and glaze, where glaze was not the kind of mirror smooth surface that crocus gave. It's common to see, for example, the two different finishes juxtaposed on the blade face and tang, but on the long cuts I have seen the finish on the blade continues into the long cut. Zak / Martin / Neil know far more than I and could elaborate here.

One way or the other ....... sweet piece.

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

As for the old ones, there were different finishes, most notable crocus and glaze, where glaze was not the kind of mirror smooth surface that crocus gave. It's common to see, for example, the two different finishes juxtaposed on the blade face and tang, but on the long cuts I have seen the finish on the blade continues into the long cut. Zak / Martin / Neil know far more than I and could elaborate here.

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Actually quite common in the cutlery trade, pocket knives especially. The mark side would be all smooth and shiny crocus, whilst the pile side would be glaze.

Probably saved time and therefor money to do 'em that way.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Actually quite common in the cutlery trade, pocket knives especially. The mark side would be all smooth and shiny crocus, whilst the pile side would be glaze.

Probably saved time and therefor money to do 'em that way.

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I got out a few of my old Sheffields to see if I could find grind lines ...... they are easily seen on the pile side (if you hold them to the light at an angle and look through a magnifying glass). Never noticed before.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Actually quite common in the cutlery trade, pocket knives especially. The mark side would be all smooth and shiny crocus, whilst the pile side would be glaze.

Probably saved time and therefor money to do 'em that way.

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I have a Boker that is crocus polished on one side and the other isn't. They had another model that was the exact same razor, but was crocus on both sides. Subtle changes allow a company to advertise many different razors even though they are the same.

Nice old W & B

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Originally Posted by Steel

I know very little about this so a question- "the vertical lines are from a grinder? Did they ever look like this from being ground by hand on a grinding wheel?"

I have a few older blades that have these faint lines too. Does that automatically mean they were re-ground? Or is it because the lines go in the seam between blade and tang?

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I have seen faint lines like that from an original grind. If that is a regrind, it was very, very lightly touched. I seriously doubt it is a regrind, there isn't even a shoulder on the blade. Like i said, if it was re-touched, it was done very lightly. It could be crocus polished, that isn't impossible but I agree with Zak, it is really hard to say.