Manah, I need ya bud. Wm. Allen etched 1815-40?

Picked this up today. its a keeper, its gonna go in my rotation, assuming it will take an edge, which I have no doubt it will..

Also, if anyone has any help on the tang stamp too, it would be appreciated -- I know that "CAST STEEL" was common -- but this looks like a 5-letter word, then the word "STEEL"

The scales are relatively straight, and all signs point to 1820-30ish. The etch seems to be a hunter, with a hunting dog at his feet.

Help? :)

http://www.adrian.edu/%7Ebmaggard/932.JPG

http://www.adrian.edu/%7Ebmaggard/933.JPG

That is a gorgeous blade. Very jealous!

Sweet! It seems to say "India Steel" to me!

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Sweet! It seems to say "India Steel" to me!

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I thought so too, but it almost looks like the last letter is a D in the first word. I'll post a closer pic...

Shown next to a Bengall "CAST STEEL" for comparison
I'm pretty sure I can rule out "SILVER STEEL" and "SHEFFIELD STEEL" as well..

I'm just curious, I know it won't change anything about the razor, I've just never seen "Wm Allen" or "XXXXX STEEL" before... :)

http://www.adrian.edu/~bmaggard/934.JPG

I dunno. Maybe it is the mysterious Celtic thing, as in these Heiffors?

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

I dunno. Maybe it is the mysterious Celtic thing, as in these Heiffors?

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Very cool, thanks for those pics. I suppose anything is possible..

Another theory... Wm Allen is actually a person, who commissioned this blade with his own name on it... and the tang stamp is actually the makers name, followed by "STEEL". lol....

either that... or it says:

WEIRD STEEL


:D :D

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Originally Posted by Undream

Very cool, thanks for those pics. I suppose anything is possible..

Another theory... Wm Allen is actually a person, who commissioned this blade with his own name on it... and the tang stamp is actually the makers name, followed by "STEEL". lol....

either that... or it says:

WEIRD STEEL


:D :D

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Yes! I can see what you mean! Weird steel it is! (luckily, Manah will be along soon!) :w

Nice score Brad - that is definitely a keeper and personal rotation worthy! Wish I could help on the XXXX Steel part. Definitely looks like a "D" before steel. Too short for Warranted. Guess it could be a "B" or "G" as well, though that doesn't really help.

The 'E's in "STEEL" look more like "A"s to me, but maybe that is just due to wear

Know anything about where it came from? There are a goodly number of people named William Allen in the 1810-1860 range, all of whom could have had a razor made for them.

Wikipedia's list of William Allens

The laurel wreath at the bottom tells me it was someone who either was important or who wanted to be. I'd put money on the etch being a depiction of 'Wm Allen'.

I'm pretty sure you're right, that definitely looks like 'WEIRD STEEL' to me. :)

First of all. Very nice blade. Really nice.
Now some details.
Why 1820-30 or 1815-40?
According many sources, "ornate blade etching" began since 1830's.
But here it's not simple ornate, it's "Detailed fancy blade etch". Such blades began since 1850's. Now "worked back", in production is since 1860's. And based on my personal experience, such "detailed scenes etch" were made since 1860's.
Yes. You can retort: what about tail. But if you'll see some razors from 1840's-1870's period, many razors had not correct tail. Problem when you see tail from the future in the past.:) Here, everything is right.
Now about Wm. Allen. Who is it? I couldn't find. The most closer is W.H. Allen from Philadelphia. He had Hdw.Wholesale. In business since 1843.
Very possible candidate ...his name on the spine.
So. The blade was made about the end of 1860's - 1870's.
Of course, I can be wrong ... :)

P.S. Unfortunately, I have not idea about the stamp ...steel or not the steel.

Thanks Manah.

Another reason I thought it was earlier was the shape of the scales as well, which wasn't apparent on my first posts. Check it out. I took the pictures alongside a W&B "WR" stamped razor (1830-37) for comparison.

http://www.adrian.edu/~bmaggard/935.JPG
http://www.adrian.edu/~bmaggard/936.JPG
http://www.adrian.edu/~bmaggard/937.JPG
http://www.adrian.edu/~bmaggard/938.JPG

Thanks for the info!!!

You're right in theory. But I think, the blade is more important.
Please, J.R. Torrey razor, full hollow ground with straight scales:

http://www.strazors.com/uploads/ForS...rey_0146_4.jpg

So. Once again, it's only my resume.:)

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Sweet! It seems to say "India Steel" to me!

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I also see :india:
Wonderful etch....

India steel seems plausible, how about:

GT IND.STEEL (great india steel)

Can you get a better picture of that etch? I'm guessing it's a traceable illustration, probably from a book.

I'm still thinking that the Wm. Allen is not the maker but the person commemorated on the blade. There are plenty of other commemorative blades out there.

William Allen was the founder of Allentown, PA. His famous Trout Hall is one of the oldest buildings in the city and it was originally a fishing and hunting lodge. Is the figure in the etch fishing?

As both a prominent Mason and a major figure in pre-Revolutionary America it's pretty easy for me to imagine someone making a razor with him on it. Conceivably as a Masonic item, but also just as a general commemorative piece.

As for the stamp, I'm pretty sure it's none of the usual suspects. I'm seeing the last two letters of the first five-letter word as RD. The last word is almost certainly STEEL. There was probably a dash or bullet between the words. But the first three letters are a total mystery. Later on I'll see if I can replicate the stamp using some reconstruction techniques and work backwards toward the letterforms of the first three.

Love the blade engraving. That took some real skill, and then to go and stamp the name of origin or type so poorly. Go figure.

Looks like it says Laird steel. Laird being the name of a small foundry or producer, possibly a blacksmith. The a may also be an e. Just a guess.

Jeff

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Looks like it says Laird steel.

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Do you mean Cammell Laird?
Cammell Laird Steel Works, Sheffield.

I've utterly failed to sort out the tang stamp. LAIRD STEEL seems more likely than many other options, I've got to say.

I did dig up some supporting evidence that the name and image are meant to commemorate William Allen, from pre-Revolutionary American politics, rather than suggest that's who made the razor.

This picture of late 1600's fly fishing attire is pretty much exactly what the guy on the blade is wearing, and his posture really looks like casting a line to me, more than shooting. The dog is probably there to symbolize that Trout Hall was for both fishing and hunting.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6...dxojo1_400.jpg

I've found numerous other etchings and illustrations that are similar.

I don't think that William Allen was the maker, just the owner, as surmised already. I also don't agree about the etching dating the razor - it's been around a long time - since the 15th century - and by the 1800s they had pretty much perfected it so that any metal could be etched to a very high degree of intricacy.

The word on the tang might be "Temperd" - without the 'e' - either a misspelling or a variant spelling of tempered. The narrowness of the tang at the beginning of the word could account for letters being missing - remember, they did the final grinding after the mark was stamped, or it would shatter the hardened steel.

I had an old Edwards razor (see below) with 'temperd' on the tang - that dates to mid 1830s.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../IMG_6447a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../IMG_6447b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/IMG_6447.jpg

Regards,
Neil