Present from an old friend

An old buddy of mine heard about my recent interest and has some goodies for me that he got in a bundle of other stuff at an auction once. I don't know anything about these and havn't seen them in person yet but they're coming my way. :)

In case you cant see it, the one on the left says MATADOR - DOUBLE TEMPERED on the blade and on the tang says MATADOR and SPAIN and has a bull logo and a number. Other one says its a DOUBLE ARROW from China. No idea what the DE is. He says its not that orange and rusty looking in person.

http://getfile8.posterous.com/getfil...scaled1000.jpg

Looking around the web, the Matador resembles a Filarmonica. Is it a knock off of one? Or is it made by them under another name?

I know one thing: DOUBLE ARROW=Kriegar

I thought Double Arrow = Gold Dollar?

do they do Krieger's too?

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Originally Posted by alb1981

I thought Double Arrow = Gold Dollar?do they do Krieger's too?

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This is my understanding as well. The Gold Dollars and Double Arrows can take and hold an edge but have QC issues in the grind department. Kriegars are 100% worthless when it comes to being a razor.

Ya you can make a GD shave, you just need to put time in it because their grinding sucks on the whole. My GD has some funky bevel issues, but shaves fine now. Sometimes you will find one that is easy to hone, when you do count yourself among the lucky and buy a lottery ticket!! lol

One thing is for sure,now that I own 5 razors and none of them are shave ready...I need to think about really trying to learn to hone.

Amazing:) has been said on another shave site,(by prior SRP members) if you even mention Au-$$ razors on SRP,you will soon be history,I was a member of that other site until a few weeks ago when I called B.S on the subject,They banned me for being argumentitive:)

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Amazing:) has been said on another shave site,(by prior SRP members) if you even mention Au-$$ razors on SRP,you will soon be history,I was a member of that other site until a few weeks ago when I called B.S on the subject,They banned me for being argumentitive:)

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Wha? What's Au-$$ mean? Australian currency? Huh?

I have gotten every razor I now have out of the good will of others. I didn't ask what anything was worth, didn't intend to.

Periodic tables-Au= Gold

LOL! Had me freaking out trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. :P

The more I look at the Matador and various Filarmonicas online, the more I'm convinced it's either a spanish knock-off or a made-for situation. I'm hoping the latter :)

I believe the DE might be a 1938 British popular no.46, nice gift!

No...I don't think it is. Thanks though, gave me a great starting point to start researching. Here's a link to pics of that one.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/One...lar%20No46.JPG

It looks very similar but the bottom side of the head is wrong. It looks more like this one.
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/One...20Sheraton.JPG

A link to possible id on the Matador: http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...e-germany.html

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

I was a member of that other site until a few weeks ago when I called B.S on the subject,They banned me for being argumentitive:)

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Welcome to the club.:mexwave:

What will get you into trouble is claiming that noobs should go buy Gold Dollars and shave with them (because they often require work that only an experienced user could deal with, negating the cost benfit). Saying that you own one and use it has never been a problem. That Double Arrow looks fine (from the limited information provided by the picture), and would probably hone up just fine.

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Originally Posted by DFriedl

What will get you into trouble is claiming that noobs should go buy Gold Dollars and shave with them (because they often require work that only an experienced user could deal with, negating the cost benfit). Saying that you own one and use it has never been a problem. That Double Arrow looks fine (from the limited information provided by the picture), and would probably hone up just fine.

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Oh really? Good to know:)

One thing I will pull you up on is your idea that 'now I have 5 razors that aren't shave ready I need to Learn how to hone' - a classic statement that couldn't be further from the truth. The first thing you need to do is learn how to SHAVE and strop - leave the rest for later on. Being in the USA there is no excuse for not sending your razors out to a professional, it will cost but at least you wont be fumbling around trying to create a shave ready edge without any reference point. Just my 2c

They aren't all worth having honed. At least 2 of them are perfect practice razors...one with a severely uneven wear pattern on the spine and one with a big bite out of the point. (I've since re-ground that.)

Right now wet shaving is brand new to me, I'm having a love affair with boar hair. I'm making friends with the DE, in a month or three I'll have hopefully gotten at least 1 of my straight razors honemeistered. But, in the last month I've taken an interest in Straights...and in that time had 5 razors fall into my lap due to good friends finding out I was interested in their old junk. At this rate the cost of sending out for honing will soon outstrip the cost of a set of stones.

Now I see well respected guys on here always putting the breaks on people wanting to learn to hone and I simply just don't comprehend that. If I was currently trying to learn to shave with a straight, would you tell me not to also try to learn to surf, or oil paint, or to speak Japanese? No, of course not. It's not a bad idea to try to learn 2 things at once, if it was then sending our kids to school would be a mistake. And it's especially not a bad idea to learn two related skills at once. They will resonate in a way that will keep you interested, motivated, and dedicated.

Honing isn't a skill exclusively useful to shaving, which is one reason I would like to learn it. Another is just the satisfaction of learning a new skill. Another is that I would be self reliant. Another is that its something I could teach my kids.

I understand that I shouldn't take a dull razor and try to hone it and then try to shave with it, without experiencing what it's like to shave with a truly shave ready edge...or try to "touch up" something on a hone that just needs stropping. Those are valid points and i respect and agree with that. But I don't see what that has to stop anyone from trying to better themselves and expand their knowledge and skill, in anything.

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Originally Posted by Nonstickron

I understand that I shouldn't take a dull razor and try to hone it and then try to shave with it, without experiencing what it's like to shave with a truly shave ready edge...or try to "touch up" something on a hone that just needs stropping. Those are valid points and i respect and agree with that. But I don't see what that has to stop anyone from trying to better themselves and expand their knowledge and skill, in anything.

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EisenFaust is giving you very good advice for sure! Learning to shave, strop properly,is definately fundamental to make this enjoyable, if you throw in honing as well, will probably be more frustrating then anything since you wont know what the problem is? is it my shaving? did i roll the edge while stropping? or my honing is not up to par? Just my opinion
And please read this:http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...ch-2012-a.html

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Originally Posted by Nonstickron

Now I see well respected guys on here always putting the breaks on people wanting to learn to hone and I simply just don't comprehend that. If I was currently trying to learn to shave with a straight, would you tell me not to also try to learn to surf, or oil paint, or to speak Japanese? No, of course not.

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If you like, knock yourself out...ive noticed that seems to be prime candidate #1 as far as advice that most new people choose to ignore. But the point they are trying to make is, if you focus on one thing, you will make significant strides quickly on that thing. You focus on multiple things, you will slow your progress on all of them. If you were learning Japanese...first you would learn the characters and how to say words, then grammar, then sentences. Its systematic. It's much slower to learn a language by trying to write out complete sentences until you have a good handle on the individual components...kind of a learn to walk before you try to run, you know?

If you have the patience & can deal with the failure (at first) of not matching the pro honed razor you shave with, I don't see any problem in learning to hone while learning to shave. A properly honed razor is an absolute for learning to shave & the caution is for newbs who think they may be able to do both without a reference point. That's what we try to discourage.

Right. I get that. I would definitely be trying to learn on a different razor than the one I was using to shave with...if not even my kitchen and pocket knives at first.

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Originally Posted by ryanjewell

If you like, knock yourself out...ive noticed that seems to be prime candidate #1 as far as advice that most new people choose to ignore. But the point they are trying to make is, if you focus on one thing, you will make significant strides quickly on that thing. You focus on multiple things, you will slow your progress on all of them. If you were learning Japanese...first you would learn the characters and how to say words, then grammar, then sentences. Its systematic. It's much slower to learn a language by trying to write out complete sentences until you have a good handle on the individual components...kind of a learn to walk before you try to run, you know?

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I'm not sure that metaphor works. Shaving isn't to honing as alphabet is to learning a language. You could learn to hone without ever having any intention of ever using a straight razor. Correct? And besides, you get to shave once a day, an hour long ritual at most...where you could spend 8 hours a day learning to make things sharp if you had the spare time. Anyway, the point is moot. I don't have hones, and can't afford them any more than I can afford to have all my razors sent out. lol ;)

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Originally Posted by Nonstickron

I'm not sure that metaphor works. Shaving isn't to honing as alphabet is to learning a language. You could learn to hone without ever having any intention of ever using a straight razor. Correct? And besides, you get to shave once a day, an hour long ritual at most...where you could spend 8 hours a day learning to make things sharp if you had the spare time.

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well...just my opinion...a sharp razor is one of the foundations to shaving. you can't shave unless your razor is sharp (i mean, you can...but it won't be very effective or fun)...so to me, razor to stone, razor to face...they are pretty inextricably linked. So whether someone else hones it or you hone it, it is one of the foundations of shaving. I suppose you could learn to hone without any intention of shaving, but as the shave test is the best indicator of whether or not you have successfully honed a razor, i'm not sure how well that works.

the reason i used the japanese metaphor is, if you come out of the bat starting to try and write sentences in japanese without any foundation...mistakes could be the wrong character, the wrong grammar, or the wrong way of putting together a sentence. conversely, if you have a bad shave, you won't know if it was bad honing, bad technique or a combination of both...if you have it honed by someone who knows how, you will know it is technique. no one here tries to stop people from honing, it's just waiting until your technique is solid enough to where you truly know whether you honed a razor well or not.

like i said, everyone has their own way of doing things...some people like to dive in with both feet. i personally like the more systematic way because my first goal is a close comfortable shave...some day i will be a decent honer, but just so i can get more close comfortable shaves...so as long as i'm getting one, i'm in no rush. :)

I'll have to agree, a sharp razor is the deal when shaving! I had almost given up on my old Boker King Cutter this morning. Thought I just as well send her out to Lynn for honing. Decided to try taping the spline (2xs) and trying 50 laps on the old Pike (Best Barber hone), 25 moderate pressure+ 25 light pressure + 25 on the Crx oxide and 60 laps on the Latigo bridge strop and low and behold, a miracle. It came back to life as possibly a new like Boker!! I now have a very close BBS!!! Trying will get you somewhere.
MHW

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Originally Posted by Nonstickron

You could learn to hone without ever having any intention of ever using a straight razor. Correct?

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Only if you had someone to test the razor or you'd never know if you succeeded.

Conversley,you can hone 100s of never shave tested blades and call it 100% success rate:)