Packwood stub

Picked this one up recently for a good price. It had heavy buildup on the blade, this is after the initial cleanup. PACKWOOD is the only marking on this.

I believe this may be an earlier model. The tail looks shorter than most Packwoods I could find and the spine is plain and square, instead of angled back with script across it. The scales are in remarkable condition after all this time. They are brown horn w gold highlights with only a couple of small chips and lead wedge.

I'm going to leave this one alone. I will do a little bit more cleaning on the blade, then the scales will get some light sanding and some neatsfoot oil.

It was nice to get this on Christmas eve!

http://i.imgur.com/eXjd3.jpg

Neat old razor.

NOW, if you can figure out exactly WHO made all those Packwoods, the razor fraternity will be forever in your debt. :)

Have fun digging around for info, that trail is a twisty one. :)

I dont know much about the Paky blades. I do know that they always seem to be happy! :p

History? This one came from Ebay, that one came from Wullie. Thats all the history I need!

You get that old Packy I sent ya shaving yet?

And yes, they all seem to be smiling. :)

ive used mine and it always had me smiling !!!!!!

Could it somehow be this Packwood?
Attachment 115935Attachment 115936
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Therein lies the quandary.

Everything I've read said that he was a strop maker of some renown as well as flim flam man of great renown. I presume he had razors made with his name on them. I've forgotten the date of his demise (1820's IIRC) and it appears that razors with his name post date his demise.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Therein lies the quandary.

Everything I've read said that he was a strop maker of some renown as well as flim flam man of great renown. I presume he had razors made with his name on them. I've forgotten the date of his demise (1820's IIRC) and it appears that razors with his name post date his demise.

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On the one hand it makes sense that a razor strop maker would either produce razors too, or have his name stamped on a line of them from a razor maker. OTOH, if the fellow was so industrious as to advertise his strops I would have figured he would have done the same with his razors. :thinking:

Wullie i believed your Packwood is more like 1840's style if i am correct?

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

On the one hand it makes sense that a razor strop maker would either produce razors too, or have his name stamped on a line of them from a razor maker. OTOH, if the fellow was so industrious as to advertise his strops I would have figured he would have done the same with his razors. :thinking:

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wasnt there a link on here that an advertisement talked about how well his razors shaved .. im goin to search engine ..lol

found it on another post
I am forming a theory, based on so close to nothing as to need to take my own words with a pound of salt, that these razor may have some connection to George Packwood, perfumer and razor strop maker from the late 1700s to early 1800s. I'm basing this partly on information in the encyclopaedia quote above (ie that makers often stamped other people's names in their work), the almost complete lack of information about the maker as well as on the wording of this little verse: Nature, regardful of the babbling race,
Planted no hair upon woman’s face.
Not Packwood’s razors,
though the very best,
Could shave a chin that never is at rest.


You may notice it refers to Packwood's razors, not razor strops and paste, but the verse was commissioned by George Packwood as part of his mass advertising campaign. Does this constitute real evidence? Like I said, I'm taking salt with my own theory here. It's pretty vague at best and without REAL data to go on conjecture is almost a kind term to apply, but it's about all I have so far.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...od-razors.html

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Wullie i believed your Packwood is more like 1840's style if i am correct?

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I traded mine off but it looks like 1830's-1840's to me.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...ackwood001.jpg

http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/u...%20and%20more/

Looks like George passed in 1811, bottom left corner.
Attachment 115939

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wullie

I traded mine off but it looks like 1830's-1840's to me.

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I dont know Wullie it does have a stub looking tail and almost straight scales.....
that is not what i remembered, i was thinking yours was with a somewhat skinny tail with curved scales.

Mine was also marked PACKWOOD SHEFFIELD, as well as SILVER STEEL.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...kwood001-1.jpg

The OP's razor is simply PACKWOOD.

I figure he had 'em made for him by whoever or wherever and maybe after he died, his widow or his kin carried on a for a bit.

In looking at this Sheffield tail dating chart your razor just got a lot older!
Attachment 115959

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Originally Posted by Martin103

In looking at this Sheffield tail dating chart your razor just got a lot older!
Attachment 115959

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this is the second post ive got the magnifying glass out on to read ..lol... i also have the razor out and holding it up to the screen ..lol.. thanks for the info !!

Lots of interesting info here, thank you gentlemen.

I found a larger version of the graphic that martin kindly posted. I looks like mine is about 1810.

http://www.voidmonster.com/gallery2/...Comparison.jpg

In looking at different Packwood razors i came across Cheetah's razors a stub tail packwood what surprised me about his was the writing on it,
"I am good, I can't be better, I tell you by letter", sounds like this kind of writing could very well be from George Packwood somewhat "telling"
to me.

Wasn't there some discussion about "SILVER STEEL" being from the 1830's? That's what I was basing my guess about age for that Packwood upon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin103

In looking at different Packwood razors i came across Cheetah's razors a stub tail packwood what surprised me about his was the writing on it,
"I am good, I can't be better, I tell you by letter", sounds like this kind of writing could very well be from George Packwood somewhat "telling"
to me.

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Hey Cheetah's razors all have copyrights on them...LOL. This post is amazing. Thanks for the charts. Someone send me a PM when things get this interesting please. How old is mine?

Oh boy she needs a wee bit of sanding. I can't wait to shave with her. Sorry for hijacking the thread. We now return to our regularly scheduled program.....

You know, when I put together that chart, part of the point was to illustrate that tail-length isn't a great indicator. :)

In any event, I'd guess that EOD7's Packwood is probably late 1820's. It's very, very similar to this Lord & Harvey.

Cheetah's is a dead ringer for the Packwood from Lummus' first article. That one was dated 1828 (and while I'm suspicious of a lot of Lummus' data, I have no reason to doubt that one).

As for Mr. Packwood himself, I've dug up a fair bit.

When he published his book of ads (and ran ads advertizing his book of advertizing!), he was most famous for selling packages that were made to resemble a goldfinch's nest, and the 'eggs' in the nest were little containers of strop paste.

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...12-17-1797.gif
(From the Porcupine Gazette, Philadelphia, PA, December 17th, 1797 -- a lot of those 'f's are 's's in disguise)

He was mentioned by Lord Byron of all people (because his wife once, when asked about how such a busy man had time to write the poems in his ads said, "Laws, sir, we keeps a poet!". Byron was not being kind.)

There were a lot of 'Razor Strop Men' around 1800. Packwood was probably the most famous, followed by J. R. Huggins, then Henry 'Razor Strop Man' Smith. The modus operandi was to have really, really entertaining prattle and then sell lots and lots of strops and/or paste. Interestingly, Packwood, Huggins and Smith all published books. Packwood was more about the poesy, Huggins did crazy narratives, and Smith pounded the Temperance Bible with tales of his misspent youth.

Actually, I should back up slightly. Huggins was more of a barber than a merchant, though by the end he was selling products branded with his name. Initially though, he just had a fancy barber shop in New York City and called himself Desborus the 1st, Emperor of Barbers.

Huggins also sold strops and razors, and pretty regularly spoke glowingly of Packwood. His ads were pop-culture mash-ups featuring counter-factual stories about the Mammoth Cheese, Napoleon's exploits, Gulliver's Travels, Knickerbocker's History of New York, and many others.

After George Packwood died, his family seems to have well and truly continued the business.

In the American market, ads for Packwood razors only really appear after 1830.

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...01-05-1836.gif
(from the Glouchester Democrat, of Glouchester, MA, January 5th 1836)

His razors were probably made by more than one Sheffield cutler. I'd put money down that Wade & Butcher made some (in the early part of their business, they were more about the steel refining -- the cutlery started as a sideline to their double-refined steel). Joseph Rodgers may well have been in on the fun too.

I have only one Packwood. I'd guess it's late in the run, probably from around the time of that last advertisement.

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...2/IMG_8058.jpg

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...2/IMG_8060.jpg

The scales are bone. Those pictures are the condition I got it in. I have since started cleaning it.

George Packwood was born in 1755 and died in 1811. Since there is no evidence of a George Packwood razor, most Packwood razor seems to be from 1820 to 1840, and like Jimmy said if he advertise his strops why not his razors?.
George Packwood sold a lot of strops and paste, i believed that a razor company put his name on razors because of his popularity and a big perhaps that a family member was involved in the process. Is there any evidence of a packwood razor that dates before 1811?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin103

George Packwood was born in 1755 and died in 1811. Since there is no evidence of a George Packwood razor, most Packwood razor seems to be from 1820 to 1840, and like Jimmy said if he advertise his strops why not his razors?.
George Packwood sold a lot of strops and paste, i believed that a razor company put his name on razors because of his popularity and a big perhaps that a family member was involved in the process. Is there any evidence of a packwood razor that dates before 1811?

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Ah, I got sloppy with my possessive forms there. I didn't mean razors made for George Packwood, but razors with his name on them. I've never seen anything from close to before he died.

While it's certainly possible that an unscrupulous cutler started stamping razors with his name after the bones had settled, it seems much likelier that it was his family continuing the business (and branching out). Considering that the razors stamped PACKWOOD seem to have spanned 10 years or more, it just doesn't seem likely to be a sham product. It's possible someone bought the rights to his name, but his strops were for sale continuously after his death and well into the 1820's and that strongly implies his family kept producing.

And then i find reference to Packwood razors in a London book:

Attachment 116127
Attachment 116128

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin103

And then i find reference to Packwood razors in a London book:

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That is really something. Any indication of the date of origin of that snippet in the book ?

Huh!

True 'nuff!

http://books.google.com/books?id=XA4...1%2C149&edge=0

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Huh!

True 'nuff!

http://books.google.com/books?id=XA4...1%2C149&edge=0

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Thats from the same book and article about George Packwood!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

That is really something. Any indication of the date of origin of that snippet in the book ?

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The book is from 1858 with a gama of snippets from differents dates!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

That is really something. Any indication of the date of origin of that snippet in the book ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Thats from the same book and article about George Packwood!

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While that book was published well after the fact (1858), I believe the quoted song is from The Goldfinch's Nest, which was published in George Packwood's lifetime.

this gets more and more interesting with every post on the "Packwood Razor " , and every time they are brought up a little bit more gets added .. i love it ! thanks to all of you who have dug up such info for us to think about and learn from !!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

I believe the quoted song is which was published in George Packwood's lifetime.

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Not only in George Packwood lifetime but by him!
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This thread is probably the best source of info on Packwood razors on the web now. Fascinating.

Here is the complete article from the book mention above.

Attachment 116144
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And the rest of the article!


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Here is another for the collection. Packy "Old English" with an amateurish regrind. I will re-regrind it when I can, and hope it settles out nice looking.
Attachment 116184

Can anyone comment on the shave itself that the Packwood razor gives? Or is owning one more because of it's age and the mystique surrounding George Packwood and his products?

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Originally Posted by theoldguy53

Can anyone comment on the shave itself that the Packwood razor gives? Or is owning one more because of it's age and the mystique surrounding George Packwood and his products?

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They’re standard older Sheffield razors: excellent if you like heavier, wedgier shavers.

They were made by the same workmen who made most stuff at that time, with the same techniques and materials. The name was nothing more than branding.

That said, it is remarkable branding for the time, and worthy as an area of historical interest. But they are by no means *only* branding, since razors of the era were nearly uniformly excellent.

Thank you for the information.
I have a number of old W&B circa that era and they shave awesome.
Cheers