"Buy it now" button, question and civility

I would like to address here a little problem I had lately in the Classifieds:

I wanted to buy a razor that was advertised with the "buy it now" button but had a question for the seller: as I live on the other side of the pond and the sale was CONUS only I wanted to know if the seller was willing to be paid by me but ship to an address of a fellow forum member living in the US who can ship back the razor to me in Europe. After writing my question via PM and stating in the comments below the ad that I was sending the seller a PM with a question, somebody else hit the "buy it now" button and bought the razor. The seller answered my PM, thinking that I was the one who paid saying that it was ok to ship to an intermediary in the US.

My problem is the following: with the "buy it now" button, it is almost a "deadly" procedure for somebody who is willing to buy but has a question to wait for an answer because somebody else can come and buy the razor; this could produce some uncivil behaviour where somebody with a question will simply hit the "buy it now" button, pay but ask for a refund if his question is not answered as he wanted. This procedure will also prevent people from asking rightful question, fearing that somebody will buy the item before he can have an answer.
It is also very frustrating for somebody who is the first willing to buy but has a question, to be over-run by a second interested but who doesn't have a question but can simply hit the magic button.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this problem... I have two, but maybe somebody here has better ideas:
1) to remove the "buy it now" button; so the first in line wanting to buy - even if he has a question - is the first who can buy the item; if he doesn't, it's up to the second in line (like in was in the old BST)
2) to clearly state in the rules that the "buy it now" is final even if somebody is in first but with a question, warning the people interested to buy the item that having a question is at their own risk - the one that somebody else coming after them could over-run their question.

Any thoughts, anybody?

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Originally Posted by Ockham

Any thoughts, anybody?

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Stay up late, or buy from one of the European forums. That is what I do.

I know that this is not a solution per se, but it works for me. Sort of.

On second thought, I think it would be nice to have a form field forcing the seller to state whether he will ship internationally. Whilst on the subject, I still think that a few more form fields would be quite useful to get a more uniform description of each razor, such as width, grind, scale material, possible defects, and so on. In a nutshell, a form derived from Bill Ellis's guide on eBay: eBay Canada Guides - Selling Straight Razors - WIBNI if all ads read like this (modulo the razor specifics, of course)?

This is a Torrey straight razor with a 6/8 inch wide blade. There is very little evidence of hone wear. There is only one very small nick in the cutting edge, but it is free of any cracks. The blade has a 2 3/4 inch cutting edge and seems to be the original full length. Additionally, the blade is lightly spotted with surface rust but it is not pitted. The scales have no cracks, they are not warped, but they do have someone's initials lightly scratched on one side. The blade fits snugly between the scales.

Man, that's rough... but honestly, I have never had the problem you are describing because I have always assumed that when you wait to use the buy it now in order to ask a question you are risking someone buying it out from under you. It is kind of a gamble. I am not sure it needs to be explicitly stated to potential buyers. :shrug:

This happens with eBay as well - I think it's fine the way it is because the seller has the choice when posting the ad whether or not to make it a "buy it now" ad

If the seller wants to entertain your offer or your question and not risk letting someone else hit the buy it now button and make an immediate purchase, the seller can edit the ad to remove that option.

Well,

Being this was my item for sale, I guess it's only fair I get to reply.......:)


I have had the W&B Chopper and the Mastro Livi razor both listed here and at another site for a combined total of well over 4 weeks. The majority of that time the sales were not listed as "Buy It Now. I did have quite a few folks tell me they were interested and then did not purchase the razor for one reason or another.

So, I added the option to "Buy It Now" in the hopes it would make it easier for some folks as many sales are carried on that way here and at E-Bay for example....

My previous experince with buy it now sales were always the first one to pay get's the item. I did not expect to receive any questions about international shipping as the item was listed as CONUS Only, 2 times in the sale thread.

I am sorry for the way this has happended and I do see your point.....I had the very same thing happen to me the other night with a somewhat expensive and rare item on E-bay and while I was trying to negotiate with the seller someone bought the item as "Buy It Now" so I too have also seen both sides of the "Buy It Now" button.

Once again, my apologizes....at the time I responded to your question I was on my way out the door and did not realize that another person bought the razor and just assumed it was purchased by you......when I got home I then realized that it was another person that bought the razor prior to my response to your PM.

Neale

It is definitely a problem when two people want the razor at the same time. I have run into this problem without the BIN option as well. Someone will pm asking a question, then right after, another person pms asking a question, you answer the questions and then maybe someone pm's saying they will take it. The first and second guy both respond, they'll take it. Who gets the razor? The first to commit? The first to ask the question? Its a complicated subject. Someone's going to be left out.

Hi Neale,

Thanks for coming in. I just used my little "story" to illustrate my point; I fully understand your point - as I said in my PM to you - and I am not complaining about it - I am just sad I didn't get it ;-); and this thread is not about this case or the way it was solved (it was up to you and you choose and was very kind and comprehensive), but about the PRINCIPLE of the "buy it now" button.
Being naive, I didn't realised that the "buy it now" button could be used - or would be used - after somebody wrote in the add comment that he was interested but was sending a question. I stupidly thought that it would work like the old BST: the first saying that he is interested, even if he has a question, is the first in line. That is my mistake.

What make me sad is that, in our forum where we want more than just sell razors and stuff but promote interest for the said stuff, procedure should help people and incite them to ask questions. But it seems to me that in this context the "buy it now" button does exactly the contrary: if you want to ask a question you take a high risk that somebody buy it just under your nose.

What will happen is the following: next time, before asking my usual shipping question - if it is ok to be paid by a European Paypal account but ship to another address in the US (I was not trying to make Neal change his mind about shipping but just if he was willing to use the address in the US of another fellow forum member) - I will hit the "buy it now" button and if the seller doesn't want to ship a relay address for me in the US I'll ask for a refund. I just wanted to be honest and civil and ask first... but with this nice method, I lost... the result is that I am "pushed" to act a little more aggressively toward the buyer, which I think is sad.

This is why I asked to stop using the "buy it now" button: to let people get the chance to have their question answered and to keep the buying business less aggressive.
And, as an alternative, to clearly state in the rules of engagement that the "buy it now" button cut down the discussions and questions. Maybe I was too naive, but I really DID think people will wait after writing that I was sending a PM with a question.

Another side of the problem is: if you can put a "hold" on something while asking questions then how long should the seller be required to have the item off the market? Exchanges may take a couple of days, there could be followup exchanges, the questions may or may not be valid, etc. The seller would be losing potential sales while the item is "off" the market.

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Originally Posted by Leighton

It is definitely a problem when two people want the razor at the same time. I have run into this problem without the BIN option as well. Someone will pm asking a question, then right after, another person pms asking a question, you answer the questions and then maybe someone pm's saying they will take it. The first and second guy both respond, they'll take it. Who gets the razor? The first to commit? The first to ask the question? Its a complicated subject. Someone's going to be left out.

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Normally, the first stating that he is interested has the priority, even if he has a question, because he stated it first. And so on and so forth in line order. What you do as a seller - or at least as I did - was to write all the people giving them order number and stating clearly that X is first but has a question, Y is second but has a question and Z is third but want it... If X is happy with the answer, the razor is his; if not, it goes to Y, and if not to Z... it was the way the BST forum was working... and I think it is a good way to let people ask questions, wait for answers (sometime the seller cannot also answer right away) and decide... I think this is why our BST forum are different form a shopping mall.

Thanks Joel for your kind explanation and understanding.

To be fair to the person that bought the razor, he told me he did not even see your questions or comments in the sale thread and simply hit the "Buy It Now" button.

I do completely understand your point, and I also have lost out on items that I wanted but missed out due to someone being faster with the payment than me.

I did have this razor for sale a few weeks ago here and elsewhere, A fella expressed interest and I agreed to hold onto the razor...... turned out the the razor was never purchased so I re-listed for sale.

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Originally Posted by Ockham

Normally, the first stating that he is interested has the priority, even if he has a question, because he stated it first. And so on and so forth in line order. What you do as a seller - or at least as I did - was to write all the people giving them order number and stating clearly that X is first but has a question, Y is second but has a question and Z is third but want it... If X is happy with the answer, the razor is his; if not, it goes to Y, and if not to Z... it was the way the BST forum was working... and I think it is a good way to let people ask questions, wait for answers (sometime the seller cannot also answer right away) and decide... I think this is why our BST forum are different form a shopping mall.

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Thats what I do. But the principle is similar. Except with the BIN button, they can override the "system." I see what your saying about the comment. But I wonder if the comment even got posted. I've tried to write a comment on one of the ads, but I don't believe it ever showed up. So that might be another problem there.

I think the way the Buy it Now is set up now is fine. It is straight forward and simple.

The thread originator had a shipping plan. He could have used the Buy it Now button and worked the shipping details out with the seller during payment, no problem.

Just a thought.

I could have sworn at some point early on in the roll-out of the new classifieds format (versus the old BST that most of us remember) it was specified at the moderator level that ANY item listed for sale in the SRP classifieds MUST offer international shipping. I believe IIRC the rationale was that SRP has a worldwide membership and the classifieds is not meant to be a free version of Ebay. Maybe SRP can clarify this again.

I could be wrong, but I thought AFDavis had stated that classifieds must allow for international shipping?

Chris L

I've had similar experiences and it has really been difficult to please all those concerned when these things happen. One problem was listing in multiple forums - someone may PM with intent to buy, but subsequently, someone hits the BIN button here. In that instance, I had refunded or rejected the BIN payment in favor of the first PM.

Two things to note about that example are:
1. The BIN is not automatic, and is subject to acceptance by the seller.
2. The first PM was not an inquiry or statement of interest, but an unconditional "I'll take it."

I have also rejected a BIN from an international buyer when my listing stated CONUS only.

What I have learned is, in an effort to be fair, I include a statement in my ads saying that the first unconditional "I'll take it" AND timely payment gets the item. That way, there is a clear order of preference for buyer > someone interested but may not buy depending on the answers to questions. Timely payment is also important, as others will say they will buy, then hold the payment as they think about it, research the item or even shop around.

Bottom line is, most of us don't sell razors as a business. Most sell because they need the money, to fund their own purchase or other reasons. We need to be fair to the seller, too, who only wants a quick, clean sale. I think the BIN is fine the way it is, and besides, the seller always has the option to not allow BIN.

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Originally Posted by Chris L

I could have sworn at some point early on in the roll-out of the new classifieds format (versus the old BST that most of us remember) it was specified at the moderator level that ANY item listed for sale in the SRP classifieds MUST offer international shipping. I believe IIRC the rationale was that SRP has a worldwide membership and the classifieds is not meant to be a free version of Ebay. Maybe SRP can clarify this again.

Chris L

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Perhaps a Mod can chime in on that. If that is the case, I can certainly remove the remaining razor I have for sale from the classifieds. Since I have been a member here, even in the Old B/S/T the seller has always had the option of shipping the razor where they feel comfortable shipping too..

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Originally Posted by Raudrive

I think the way the Buy it Now is set up now is fine. It is straight forward and simple.

The thread originator had a shipping plan. He could have used the Buy it Now button and worked the shipping details out with the seller during payment, no problem.

Just a thought.

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Yes, that's possible. The problem is, when doing so you are forcing the hand of the seller: if you hit the "buy it now" button thinking that you, as you have a relay address in the US, can work the details with the seller after payment (not during... with the "buy it now" button you pay directly with Paypal if I am not mistaken)... you are deciding for the seller who may not be comfortable to send a package to a Paypal non-related address in case the package will be lost by the USP - that could also be the case if you want to ship the razor in the US but to another address than yours in the US, to somebody to rescale the razor for instance (this problem does not occur only because of shipping... that was my problem to illustrate this case... you could have a question concerning honing wear for instance)

The "buy it now" button is straight forward and simple - nothing against that -, but cut down discussions, and as I said in my previous post, I think this is dommagable to a site like SRP which is designed to promote straight razor shaving, not selling (that is why we also have a BST here - or at least it is the reason I am thinking of - and that we have not only Ebay). I find that the possibility to ask questions and wait for answer is one of the multiple advantages of our Classifieds... what make it different from a simple shopping mall.

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Originally Posted by RayG

I've had similar experiences and it has really been difficult to please all those concerned when these things happen. One problem was listing in multiple forums - someone may PM with intent to buy, but subsequently, someone hits the BIN button here. In that instance, I had refunded or rejected the BIN payment in favor of the first PM.

Two things to note about that example are:
1. The BIN is not automatic, and is subject to acceptance by the seller.
2. The first PM was not an inquiry or statement of interest, but an unconditional "I'll take it."

I have also rejected a BIN from an international buyer when my listing stated CONUS only.

What I have learned is, in an effort to be fair, I include a statement in my ads saying that the first unconditional "I'll take it" AND timely payment gets the item. That way, there is a clear order of preference for buyer > someone interested but may not buy depending on the answers to questions. Timely payment is also important, as others will say they will buy, then hold the payment as they think about it, research the item or even shop around.

Bottom line is, most of us don't sell razors as a business. Most sell because they need the money, to fund their own purchase or other reasons. We need to be fair to the seller, too, who only wants a quick, clean sale. I think the BIN is fine the way it is, and besides, the seller always has the option to not allow BIN.

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Thats a good idea. Thanks for that. I'll keep that in mind when listing items from now on.

I think a simple solution to this problem is to have the seller list clearly what needs to be done in order to "buy it now"; what payment methods he's willing to accept; when payment should be made; how much shipping is in the CONUS and whether he will ship internationally and if so, if there is a set amount extra or if it depends upon the country. For example:


I accept paypal only, international shipping available for $5 to western Europe & Australia, free shipping to CONUS & Canada. Payment to be made withiin 2 days of hitting the button.

It’s interesting that you raised this issue Joel; I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. I purchased two razors using the ‘buy it now’ button and everything went swimmingly. A little while later I got an email from the seller saying that though my payment had gone through I was three seconds too late; someone had already purchased the razor. Though I was annoyed for a few minutes – mostly because my computer had frozen for a few seconds causing a delay of the PayPal payment – I soon moved on.


My point is that there will always be glitches, but thankfully they are usually few and far between. It’s just a shame that someone else had their beady eye on that beautiful Butcher, Lol.


P.s. Joel, you were the lucky git who had fingers three seconds faster than mine! :gth

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Originally Posted by Leighton

I think a simple solution to this problem is to have the seller list clearly what needs to be done in order to "buy it now"; what payment methods he's willing to accept; when payment should be made; how much shipping is in the CONUS and whether he will ship internationally and if so, if there is a set amount extra or if it depends upon the country.

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I don't think this will solve the problem I am considering. The problem is not really what needs to be done in order to BIN... this is quite straightforward, as you - and other - already stated.

The problem is: what if a buyer is willing to buy but has a question not addressed in the description (not just want some piece of information for fun)? that could always happen... the question does not have to be related only to shipping, but could be on the quality of the razor, shades on pictures, hone wear...
I think a clear policy must be stated for that: does the seller has to behave like RayG described ("I had refunded or rejected the BIN payment in favor of the first PM"), respecting the line order, or is it the quick and clean solution that must be used in giving the priority of the BIN?

The central problem here is about the possibility of a buyer to ASK a question and still have the possibility to buy the item if he has to wait for the answer...

I just wanted to say again, this razor has been offered in the classifieds here at SRP for over 4 weeks in the past 2 months and I did answer many questions and PM's regarding the razor, it's condition etc....The W&B sale threads alone had over 3000 views between the couple sale thread I listed it in.....The first sale thread was deleted during system maintenance and I had to re-list it......

Also, I had a lot of questions on the Chandler I recently sold, and the Mastro Livi I have for sale....I try and answer all questions as they are received and provide lots of photos and a description of the items being offered with my selling terms......I do think others do the same and haven't really heard of any problems with the system as it is.

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Originally Posted by Paddington

It’s interesting that you raised this issue Joel; I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. I purchased two razors using the ‘buy it now’ button and everything went swimmingly. A little while later I got an email from the seller saying that though my payment had gone through I was three seconds too late; someone had already purchased the razor. Though I was annoyed for a few minutes – mostly because my computer had frozen for a few seconds causing a delay of the PayPal payment – I soon moved on.


My point is that there will always be glitches, but thankfully they are usually few and far between. It’s just a shame that someone else had their beady eye on that beautiful Butcher, Lol.


P.s. Joel, you were the lucky git who had fingers three seconds faster than mine! :gth

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Hi Paddington,

Sorry bro... didn't know you were fishing the same razor (at least you had one... ;-) I guess it is the Greaves that you won, but the Eyre that you didn't, isn't it?)

But this is not the issue I am raising here. The experience is not similar: I was just faster to hit the magic button... but I also looked - before hitting the button - that nobody wrote in the comment that he was sending a PM for question - in that case I wouldn't have hit the BIN button. It is the same game that if there were not BIN button and we had to write in the comment section of the add that we are interested.

My question addresses, and it is the last time I am boring you all with this issue, the precise situation when somebody is willing to buy but needs to ask a question first.
This is why I am asking for a change (no BIN) or a better clear policy of what to do for the seller and the buyer in a similar case.

Sorry to have bothered you all with this... maybe I should have simply wrote a PM to a Mod...

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I just wanted to say again, this razor has been offered in the classifieds here at SRP for over 4 weeks in the past 2 months and I did answer many questions and PM's regarding the razor, it's condition etc....The W&B sale threads alone had over 3000 views between the couple sale thread I listed it in.....The first sale thread was deleted during system maintenance and I had to re-list it......

Also, I had a lot of questions on the Chandler I recently sold, and the Mastro Livi I have for sale....I try and answer all questions as they are received and provide lots of photos and a description of the items being offered with my selling terms......I do think others do the same and haven't really heard of any problems with the system as it is.

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Neale, there is really nothing wrong with your add, your sale, or the way you answered questions via PM or the way you handle our business. As I said I am not here to complain about you, or the way our transaction went; I was very happy with the way you kindly wrote to me to explain the situation and the solution you chose; I respect your decision. I just used this story to illustrate a problem I haven't thought off before, which is more GENERAL: what with people with questions. That's all. I beg you not to take this personally; you did nothing wrong. If in my presentation of the story you felt insulted, or your words bent, please do accept my apologises. It wasn't at all my intention.

Haha, it's fine; I have found some nice razors since then to help with the trauma!

However, you misunderstand my point -- probably because I didn't state it very well. I am just saying that there are glitches and always will be. Yes, we should minimize them; however, in my opinion the current system works.

I love the thrill of the hunt; though I often miss the kill. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ockham

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Originally Posted by Padron

I just wanted to say again, this razor has been offered in the classifieds here at SRP for over 4 weeks in the past 2 months and I did answer many questions and PM's regarding the razor, it's condition etc....The W&B sale threads alone had over 3000 views between the couple sale thread I listed it in.....The first sale thread was deleted during system maintenance and I had to re-list it......

Also, I had a lot of questions on the Chandler I recently sold, and the Mastro Livi I have for sale....I try and answer all questions as they are received and provide lots of photos and a description of the items being offered with my selling terms......I do think others do the same and haven't really heard of any problems with the system as it is.

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Neale, there is really nothing wrong with your add, your sale, or the way you answered questions via PM or the way you handle our business. As I said I am not here to complain about you, or the way our transaction went; I was very happy with the way you kindly wrote to me to explain the situation and the solution you chose; I respect your decision. I just used this story to illustrate a problem I haven't thought off before, which is more GENERAL: what with people with questions. That's all. I beg you not to take this personally; you did nothing wrong. If in my presentation of the story you felt insulted, or your words bent, please do accept my apologises. It wasn't at all my intention.

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Thanks Joel,

Very glad to hear you are happy with our communications and the way everything was handled. :)

Sorry it didn't work out on the sale. Good thing is, these large choppers aren't really in short supply......there is a 8/8 Wostenholm in the classifieds now that has a lot of potential.

Best,


Neale

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Originally Posted by Ockham

My question addresses, and it is the last time I am boring you all with this issue, the precise situation when somebody is willing to buy but needs to ask a question first.
This is why I am asking for a change (no BIN) or a better clear policy of what to do for the seller and the buyer in a similar case.

Sorry to have bothered you all with this... maybe I should have simply wrote a PM to a Mod...

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Definitely worth the discussion. Even if nothing is officially changed everybody gets to think about it, express their opinions, and maybe become aware of something they hadn't thought about before or didn't know how it worked.

The problem is with putting a "hold" on an item. You said you were "willing to buy" BUT you needed to ask a question first. So you weren't unconditionally willing to by. You were conditionally willing to buy depending on the answer to your question. In your case it was pretty straight forward "I will buy it if you will ship it to someone else (CONUS) for me". That's a yes/no answer. What if your question had been "I would like to buy it but I want to know a little history on the item first and then decide"? What if you have followup questions? Even if you only have a single, yes/no question, how long should you have to decide if you want it or not after receiving your answer? The process could easily take days or even weeks and then you may decide not to buy. All this is assuming the buyer and seller are negotiating with the best of intent. It doesn't even touch on abuse (which would be almost impossible to objectively define). Like "I'll just lock up candidates while I continue shopping for a few days and then I'll go back and buy the best deal". In the mean time, other buyers have moved on or bought a different one.

I can think of a possible solution/idea that might be workable. when you hit the BIN button you get a dialog box with "Buy it now" or "Buy it conditionally". If you take the second option you enter a Yes/No question or set of conditions. If the seller agrees then you've bought the item. If the seller doesn't agree to the condition(s) then they reject the offer and next buyer in the queue or the next buyer to hit the button gets it. Pretty much a single exchange with no added time.

What if another buyer comes along and is unconditionally ready to buy when the previous person pushed the BIN button with a condition????? Now this buyer is getting done wrong.

The system works like it is. Knowing who the seller is and using the feedback system helps clear things up. The cautious way is best but comes in second sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Quick

Definitely worth the discussion. Even if nothing is officially changed everybody gets to think about it, express their opinions, and maybe become aware of something they hadn't thought about before or didn't know how it worked.

The problem is with putting a "hold" on an item. You said you were "willing to buy" BUT you needed to ask a question first. So you weren't unconditionally willing to by. You were conditionally willing to buy depending on the answer to your question. In your case it was pretty straight forward "I will buy it if you will ship it to someone else (CONUS) for me". That's a yes/no answer. What if your question had been "I would like to buy it but I want to know a little history on the item first and then decide"? What if you have followup questions? Even if you only have a single, yes/no question, how long should you have to decide if you want it or not after receiving your answer? The process could easily take days or even weeks and then you may decide not to buy. All this is assuming the buyer and seller are negotiating with the best of intent. It doesn't even touch on abuse (which would be almost impossible to objectively define). Like "I'll just lock up candidates while I continue shopping for a few days and then I'll go back and buy the best deal". In the mean time, other buyers have moved on or bought a different one.

I can think of a possible solution/idea that might be workable. when you hit the BIN button you get a dialog box with "Buy it now" or "Buy it conditionally". If you take the second option you enter a Yes/No question or set of conditions. If the seller agrees then you've bought the item. If the seller doesn't agree to the condition(s) then they reject the offer and next buyer in the queue or the next buyer to hit the button gets it. Pretty much a single exchange with no added time.

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Originally Posted by Chris L

I could have sworn at some point early on in the roll-out of the new classifieds format (versus the old BST that most of us remember) it was specified at the moderator level that ANY item listed for sale in the SRP classifieds MUST offer international shipping. I believe IIRC the rationale was that SRP has a worldwide membership and the classifieds is not meant to be a free version of Ebay. Maybe SRP can clarify this again.

I could be wrong, but I thought AFDavis had stated that classifieds must allow for international shipping?

Chris L

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I PM'd Lynn, he said it is up to seller where they want to ship their items they are offering for sale. I guess as long as it is listed as CONUS Only that pretty much sums it up and does not mislead anyone.

Thanks,

Neale

Yep it is all up to the seller. If he says BIN US only and you want a favor you might lose but the seller set the perimeters. If the seller wants to offer overseas he can mention it or not put up the buy it now button. As long as the seller follows SRP Guidelines it is his call. Any questions please ask.
Thanks Don

I always give the first person in the queue priority but that does pose an interesting question. If you were to post a question with good faith to purchase then an hour later someone does the BIN, I would give you priority and refund the second persons transaction. If it was snapped up before you got your post posted, then that is just how the marbles fall. They could have beaten you to the BIN button to start with. We all try to be fare and work on gentlemen's rules. When I get more than one person interested in a razor, I will often privately offer the other person another razor if I have one in the queue, I guess you could call it a consolation prize.

there is nothing in the rules that says who you have to ship to. It is up to the seller to decide who he will or will not ship to. We only offer the the classifieds as a service and only place a few rules to keep things moving smoothly we do not tell you what to do with your personal property that up to the seller.

If the seller has allowed Buy It Now, it is impossible for him to follow "the unwritten code of gentlemanly conduct and behaviour with regard to the sale of items" in the way implied in comparision to the old BST forum. If I've entered a listing and allowed BIN, I could very well be diligently answering questions with the full intention of allowing the sale to the inquiring person but if someone comes along and hits BIN and immediately pays, I would consider it equally ungentlemanly to reject that person's purchase and refund his payment. As long as the BIN option is in place in a listing, it's there for everyone to see and deal with accordingly.

I sympathize with the need to ask questions but OTOH all of us have seen the ebay "immediate payment required" auctions. You mouse click the buy it now and it takes you to the paypal login and tells you that while you are taking care of business someone else can buy the item. :shrug:

At least with SRP I would figure that if I bought something that proved to be unsatisfactory to me the seller would accept the item back and issue a refund less shipping. Reminds me of what a friend of mine was fond of saying,"All things come to he who waits ....... unless he waits too long."

I don't see a need to change things.. The buy-it button is convenient for both parties and the seller has the option to allow it or not. I've done both with items I've sold since they both have pluses and minuses and I'm not sure yet which option I like better.

It is really up to the seller how they want to conduct their business and their choices have an effect on their future transactions. For example there are a couple of people I am not going to conduct business with because they have handled previous interactions rather poorly.

As a buyer I state my intentions clearly and have always completed my end as soon as possible, which happens to be within hours.
I usually try to be extremely flexible as a seller, but I can understand if somebody doesn't have the ability or inclination to wait for the buyers to make up their mind. There are all kinds of situations which can greatly affect our options.

What is unacceptable to me is lack of communication and changing rules in the middle, i.e. if you have stated you will ship internationally, you cannot pass over the first people who have committed to the sale to sell to somebody local, unless you have stated such preference explicitly. Or if you say you will purchase something you should either pay as soon as possible (generally I expect within a day), or let the seller know you are unable to do so. That's the kind of behavior I am not interested in dealing with.

On few occasions I have removed the buy-it button upon the request of a potential buyer, but with the understanding that they only have very limited time to make up their mind, and the subseuent prospective buyers know exactly what is going on.

It's not really all that hard. Few situations may need a judgment call, but there's nothing wrong with that, as those calls reflect on the person making them and are quite helpful for future decisions.

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Originally Posted by Chris L

I could have sworn at some point early on in the roll-out of the new classifieds format (versus the old BST that most of us remember) it was specified at the moderator level that ANY item listed for sale in the SRP classifieds MUST offer international shipping. I believe IIRC the rationale was that SRP has a worldwide membership and the classifieds is not meant to be a free version of Ebay. Maybe SRP can clarify this again.

I could be wrong, but I thought AFDavis had stated that classifieds must allow for international shipping?

Chris L

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Nope. International shipping is not mandatory. The classifieds has to be able to allow you to choose (which is what Alan meant IIRC).

It is up to the members to determine how and to where they ship.
For example, I cannot insure shipments to certain countries, so it is up to me how I deal with that. I could charge an additional insurance fee to cover my risk, or refuse to ship to said country, or agree with the buyer that it is his risk and not mine. There are way too much variables for us to draft up rules.

I would not change a thing. The classifieds section is an excellent service for forum members and it needs to be kept simple. Anything beyond the "first come, first served" rule would quickly make it deteriorate and shut down.

No false entitlements, please.

To be honest I preferred the BST forum format but I really like the 'buy it now' button. It is just so convenient to be able to pull the trigger immediately if that is what I want to do. The issue of someone beating me to the punch is there but that is the case with the old format too. Whoever posted "PM sent" was the buyer.