Home-made soap update

Made a soap that was about 1/3 coconut oil, 1/3 palm oil, the balance was sunflower, castor, and olive (just a bit). 1/2 NaOH, 1/2 KOH.

First, it's too soft and too hard. Too soft to be a hard soap, too hard to be a 'cream'.

Lesson learned: middle of the road ain't it.

Lathers well, cleans really well, conditions fine. However, it very quickly goes "flat". DR Harris is my reference soap, so further comments should be indexed against that fact.

With DR Harris, I can soap up my face, shave the right side and there is still enough white and foamy sitting on my left to finish that half. With my soap, the "second half" of the face has gone flat and soapless by the time I get to it. Need to do more research on which quality that it from the soapmaker's perspective.

Cushions well enough. If I did not have dedicated shaving soaps laying around, I'd be tickled pink with this stuff. As it is, I will use it gladly while working up Rev-B.

By the way, I also have a disc of untried Mitchell's wool fat soap laying about. I was reading ingredients and noted that it has no "wool fat" in it.

Sounds like Razor Rock Classic it is like a putty not a hard soap or cream
Nice work

Why add KOH? That along with the NaOH leached all your H2O from the lather. Try it without the KOH.

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Originally Posted by ChopperDave

Why add KOH? That along with the NaOH leached all your H2O from the lather. Try it without the KOH.

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Because I never have sense to follow a recipe! My wife's the baker. I'm the chef.:shrug:

My behavior disorder http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ml#post1441988 is going to suffer quite a lot here... ;-)

Let's see:
1- This "make your own soap" issue catches my attention.
2- I start fiddling in my mind on how to get into this without spending much money or getting divorced (another way of spending much money).
3- I start thinking that if no one prepares an easy recipe then it is probably falling into d) step...

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Originally Posted by ChopperDave

Why add KOH? That along with the NaOH leached all your H2O from the lather. Try it without the KOH.

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KOH makes for a softer soap. changing to proportions of NaOH and KOH can change the hardness of your soap. I personally like the softer soaps. Cella is a good example of such a soap. As far as the OPs soap, you may try loading the brush up more but may be not :shrug: Your recipe list looks alright (not sure on the olive oil, but just a bit shouldn't hurt.

Let us know how it goes.

The beauty of it is that it's...

1. cheap to get into. Very, very cheap.
2. Fast....
3. Your first couple of batches can be lavender this or that--thus you can cheaply and easily make a batch of seashell crapper soap which immediately becomes feminine swag suitable for her friends.

Got a table saw @ Christmas. First thing I did was make a jewelry box.

Subscribed!

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

By the way, I also have a disc of untried Mitchell's wool fat soap laying about. I was reading ingredients and noted that it has no "wool fat" in it.

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now I'm no soap maker but I think I am correct in this.

look for "Sodium Tallowate" and "lanolin". Tallow when mixed with NaOH produces the Sodium Tallowate, and you get tallow from the mutton fat. Lanolin is an extract from mutton fat.

Oh and by the way, How does one purchase the caustics? I would love to know as a reference if I get the desire to try my hand at soap making

Edit: I just found out that Lanolin is not from the fat but rather a byproduct of washing wool before spinning into thread or yarn

Alkali: KOH, purchase online (goog). NaOH, Lowes has it in the plumbing section as industrial strength drain unclogger. They sell TWO: liquid, which you don't want (H2SO4), and crystals--which you do. But read the label, some crystals are modern eco-crap. Not what you want.

Edit: Lowes has changed their brand. Urg....what they have now is NaOH plus other a lot of other crap.

Be SURE ou look at MSDS for the product you think might work. That's what you tells you what "it" is adulterated with.

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Be SURE ou look at MSDS for the product you think might work. That's what you tells you what "it" is adulterated with.

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Good Point. I don't trust a lot of advertisements that says 100% Lye (or whatever ingredient they say). I work in a lab and sometimes just the process in making and purity of a product can dictate what it can be used for. When I was in college, we done a chem lab that made aspirin, but they cautioned us not to take it if we had a headache because since the process contained some pretty dangerous stuff and the purity would definitely be in question (being students and all), the result could be deadly.

I have purchased caustics from amazon and brambleberry.com

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

By the way, I also have a disc of untried Mitchell's wool fat soap laying about. I was reading ingredients and noted that it has no "wool fat" in it.

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Sorry, but you are wrong on that. Double check the ingredients and/or look up wool fat.

Both before and after being loaded in soap bowl.

Attachment 190384

Loaded on brush. Takes a LOT of wrist action to get here.

Attachment 190385

Side "A" lathered up

Attachment 190386

Side "A" [B]after[B] side "B" has been shaved. You can see how it's gone 'flat'.

Attachment 190387

Hey JG
This is just my opinion so don't take offense.

The "lather" in post #15 on "side A before shaving side B" appears very foamy with very little "lather" characteristics. The bubbles are what caught my attention.

Have you tried getting a more dense lather before shaving?

IMO, based on the pics, I would have worked the suds a bit longer to get a more dense and uniform lather.

Rolo: thanks for the perspective! I concur. I doesn't lather much beyond what you see. It will foam more. I am trying to map the concepts of "foamy" and "lather" to soap making terminology. They seem conflated. But , yes. Next batch needs more cushion.

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Rolo: thanks for the perspective! I concur. I doesn't lather much beyond what you see. It will foam more. I am trying to map the concepts of "foamy" and "lather" to soap making terminology. They seem conflated. But , yes. Next batch needs more cushion.

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Guys, I found something on this. From the perspective of soap makers, "foam" and "lather" are the same thing. More accurately they are ranges on the spectrum of "how large are the entrained air bubbles". Caster oil, glycerin, lard are all cited as supporting smaller (latheryer) bubbles.

Instead of the molecular number in the soap recipes , would it not be better to say what it actually is , like H2SO4 is sulphuric acid .
Just realize what you will be slapping on your face.
love the site.

Couldn't help chiming in. I've tried my hand at shaving soap as well and ended up about where jgjgjg did. I've played around with soap calculators like these to control hardness and lather but I haven't had success. Then I came across this site where the purveyor explains the process he went through. With only 6 ingredients (a reduced set of variables) I think I can get a little closer than before.

I bought a tin of his soap and it's actually really good. It lathers up really well and provides a nice cushion. So now I'm inspired to buy some stearic acid (I already have all the other ingredients) and try to dial in the recipe.

Update to the update!

Made another batch. I'll post the recipe here soon. It looks ugly, but it shaves REALLY nicely! This was a soap heavy on "manteca" and coconut oil.

So Manteca is lard (Pig Fat) I would love to see this recipe i'd love to try this myself one day. Use a boar brush to enhance the piggy goodness of the lather;)

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

now I'm no soap maker but I think I am correct in this.

look for "Sodium Tallowate" and "lanolin". Tallow when mixed with NaOH produces the Sodium Tallowate, and you get tallow from the mutton fat. Lanolin is an extract from mutton fat.

Oh and by the way, How does one purchase the caustics? I would love to know as a reference if I get the desire to try my hand at soap making

Edit: I just found out that Lanolin is not from the fat but rather a byproduct of washing wool before spinning into thread or yarn

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Is the lanolin a by product of the oil washed from the wool or is lanolin the oil itself?

The great soap "Mitchell's Wool Fat" name comes to mind.

Okay...

1/2 Manteca
1/3 coconut oil
1/3 castor oil

Is there any saponification happening here or is this just face grease?

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Originally Posted by Razorfaust

Is there any saponification happening here or is this just face grease?

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And 100% NaOH. 5% superfat as calculated by soapnet.

Thankyou I'd love to try it out

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

1/2 Manteca

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Just plain butter or anything special? If this really works, I will be glad to try it out! I am not a soap maker, and it is becoming hard to find common soap where I live...

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Originally Posted by MT4

Just plain butter or anything special? If this really works, I will be glad to try it out! I am not a soap maker, and it is becoming hard to find common soap where I live...

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Yeah...you've got problems. I'm a bit of a 'history of technology' buff and what the news media has portrayed here in the US I will interpret as basically climbing your way down the technology ladder. I would suggest the following:

1. If you can't find Lye, which is SODIUM hydroxide, you can also make liquid soap from POTASSIUM hydroxide.
2. If you really insist on hard soap, you will need Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH). See link HERE --> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...ium-hydroxide/ If batteries are scarce in Argentina, PM me and I'll send you some links how to generate electricity with things you can probably find. Not 'power the house" electricity, but "make a small batch of chemicals" electricity.
3. If liquid'ish soap, good enough for body washing, is good enough for you, then see How to Make Lye: 13 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow
4. Note that 2 and 3 make DIFFERENT forms of lye. I send you these links because if you can't get soap, it's highly unlikely you will be able to find Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) or Potassium Hydroxide.

5. You need to enter the correct type into the 'soap calculator'. See soap calculator --> SoapCalc

Note that the soap calculator allows you to choose a HUGE array of different oils: coconut oil, pig fat, beef fat, palm oil, peanut oil, olive oil, etc. The problem you will have is determining lye strength using what you get from the above links. You should go one step further and simmer (NOT BOIL) the lye until it is a dry powder. Then you can dissolve the correct amount. You can also check the pH for 'neutrality' or 'baseness' using litmus paper. You want your soap to have neutral pH. Hugely important, and hugely hugely important for soap used on children, the elderly, or beautiful ladies with radiant skin. Not so important for macho manly men that don't care about walking around with huge chemical burns on their dumb selves.

6. But....if you can't find soap, you sure as heck won't find litmus paper or pH meters. See here --> Test papers: Journey to Forever

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Originally Posted by MT4

Just plain butter or anything special? If this really works, I will be glad to try it out! I am not a soap maker, and it is becoming hard to find common soap where I live...

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One more thing...manteca as the word is used in the local 'pocho' dialect in Texas does not mean 'butter', it means rendered pig fat. Butter...meaning thoroughly churned milk....is not used in the soap recipes I have seen. I believe that is the case because butter is not pure fat and not pure oil (fat=oil).

Many thanks!

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

One more thing...manteca as the word is used in the local 'pocho' dialect in Texas does not mean 'butter', it means rendered pig fat. Butter...meaning thoroughly churned milk....is not used in the soap recipes I have seen. I believe that is the case because butter is not pure fat and not pure oil (fat=oil).

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"Manteca" means "butter" in Spanish. My mistake here, as a native Spanish speaker.

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Yeah...you've got problems. I'm a bit of a 'history of technology' buff and what the news media has portrayed here in the US I will interpret as basically climbing your way down the technology ladder. I would suggest the following:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

1. If you can't find Lye, which is SODIUM hydroxide, you can also make liquid soap from POTASSIUM hydroxide.

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I can certainly get "soda caustica", which is supposed to be solid NaOH. We buy it to "melt" fat in kitchen dumps piping, when they are clogged.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

2. If you really insist on hard soap, you will need Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH). See link HERE --> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...ium-hydroxide/ If batteries are scarce in Argentina, PM me and I'll send you some links how to generate electricity with things you can probably find. Not 'power the house" electricity, but "make a small batch of chemicals" electricity.

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Batteries are OK. The point is that Customs bureaucracy has become a kind of PITA (not certain why PITA stands for "pain in the neck", though ;-) ). My guess is that importers (either of final products or materials for production) are focused in things with high added value. In our case (shaving soaps) Gillette and other major manufacturers are selling pressure cans with either foam or gel, for example, but not the traditional (and cheap) solid shaving soap bars, or semi-solid jars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

3. If liquid'ish soap, good enough for body washing, is good enough for you, then see How to Make Lye: 13 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow
4. Note that 2 and 3 make DIFFERENT forms of lye. I send you these links because if you can't get soap, it's highly unlikely you will be able to find Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) or Potassium Hydroxide.

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As stated above: I think I can; it is just that I am not sure if we are referring to the same NaOH...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

5. You need to enter the correct type into the 'soap calculator'. See soap calculator --> SoapCalc

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Note that the soap calculator allows you to choose a HUGE array of different oils: coconut oil, pig fat, beef fat, palm oil, peanut oil, olive oil, etc. The problem you will have is determining lye strength using what you get from the above links. You should go one step further and simmer (NOT BOIL) the lye until it is a dry powder. Then you can dissolve the correct amount. You can also check the pH for 'neutrality' or 'baseness' using litmus paper. You want your soap to have neutral pH. Hugely important, and hugely hugely important for soap used on children, the elderly, or beautiful ladies with radiant skin. Not so important for macho manly men that don't care about walking around with huge chemical burns on their dumb selves.

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I am a "macho" man, but not one of those ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

6. But....if you can't find soap, you sure as heck won't find litmus paper or pH meters. See here --> Test papers: Journey to Forever

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I'll ask about the paper. There are widely spread pH meters for laboratories, swimming pools, and gardens. Might get one of those if useful.

Thanks again.

Martin

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Originally Posted by rolodave

Is the lanolin a by product of the oil washed from the wool or is lanolin the oil itself?

The great soap "Mitchell's Wool Fat" name comes to mind.

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Lanolin is a wax, not an oil. It is wool wax.
"Lana" in Latin and in Italian means wool.