Sadistic Suds (Soaps to Avoid for Those with Sensitive Skin)

While those of us who suffer from a "Hollywood Face" make up only a limited percentage of the membership here at SRP, our shaving experience can be greatly influenced by factors that the rest of our brethren can freely ignore. Brushes, water temperature and soap, even those that we would love to use, can become a source of pain and discomfort that lasts throughout the day. While the first two variables are generally easy to figure out and correct for each individual it is the soaps that can cause us the most surprise and frustration. The point of this thread is to attempt to alleviate some of that.

My own journey from chemical-laden goop and cartridges to traditional wetshaving with vintage straight razors started because of my sensitive skin. I suffered my entire shaving life with uncomfortable shaves and skin issues, part of the reason why I've sported either a Van Dyke or a full beard for over twenty years. Relief came by chance, during our honeymoon my wife and I wandered past an Art of Shaving (they didn't exist in my neck of the woods at the time) and she urged me to go in, talk to the salesman and try their products. So my wetshaving journey began but it was another ten years before I found this fine community and fulfilled a desire that began when I first built lather in a bowl, the desire to learn to use a straight razor (I went directly from cartridges to a straight razor). On the rare occasions that I now suffer from an uncomfortable shave the only person I can blame is myself because I didn't get the edge on a razor that it deserved...that is unless I stumble across a soap that leaves me feeling as if I've given my face an acid bath.

At this point I'd like to express a huge thanks to Obie and his First Tier Soaps and Creams thread. Not only has Obie given us a fantastic resource for finding fantastic soaps and creams but his personal list is Hollywood Face Friendly as he suffers from his own sensitive skin issues. Also hidden within the pages of replies and updates are a number of posts that contain warnings for those that have stumbled across soaps that are problematic for those of us with sensitivity issues. The problem is that these can be hard to find in a thread dedicated to top soaps and only serve as a warning for that particular soap from that particular member.

What I'm attempting here is not only a listing of those soaps that have caused some of us pain and discomfort but an accounting of their ingredients. My hope is this clearinghouse of soaps and their components can not only serve as a warning to other members, both current and future, but as a resource for each of us to attempt to identify the ingredients that seem to cause the most problems. As always, any tips, tricks and products that have helped you tame your Hollywood face over the years are welcome!

I cannot begin to describe the regret I feel at making my first entry to the list Henri et Victoria's La Poire Francaise. The lather I managed to build with this soap was first-rate and I find the fragrance heaven-scent [/rimshot]. I happily place this shave soap in my top tier and am absolutely heart-broken that I simply can't use it. To be clear, I have endured multiple days of burn as I've tried every trick that I can think of to tame this flamethrower and nothing has worked.

Ingredient List: Potassium Stearate, Potassium Cocoate, Water, Glycerine, Potassium Ricenoalete, Parfum

The La Poire Francaise (French Pear) is the only variety of Henri et Victoria soap that I've tried but I am convinced that this is not a fragrance issue but a soap formula issue. At this point I will not purchase another variety of Henri et Victoria, unless the rumor of a tallow-based formula is true and makes its way to the marketplace.

Black Ship Grooming's soaps were the first soaps to truly show me what burn can be. I purchased a number of these samples some time back and the use of two of them (La Concorde, The Black Rose) convinced me to avoid the third (Thomas Tew). I didn't love any of these soaps enough to make a thorough attempt to tame them but between the two samples I probably tried them at least three times.

Ingredients: Coconut Oil, Shea Butter, Stearic Acid, Water, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin

Seeing as I tried multiple fragrances in the Black Ship line I can only assume my issues lie in the formulation of the soaps. These soaps are firmly on my "No-go" list.

I'm a fan of what Jonathan and his wife are doing over at The Sudsy Soapery and my wife and I have the receipts to prove it. I currently have four of Jonathan's shave soaps in my rotation, along with a couple of bath bars. Up until recently I never had an issue with any of the Sudsy products but a few weeks ago Delor de Treget, my favorite, began to give rise to some irritation.

Some backstory is in order on this one. I purchased my first Sudsy product back in June 2017 an the St. Louis Wetshavers' Meet after experiencing the delightful scent of Delor de Treget. This soaps was a limited cooperation between Jonathan at Sudsy and Shawn at Chatillon Lux, essentially a Sudsy shave soap using a scent formulated by Shawn for his line of aftershave splashes and balms. The fragrance is a personal favorite and I've subsequently picked up two extra tubs of the soap so that it remains in my rotation for a very long time.

Recently I began to experience some irritation with the Delore de Treget despite the fact that I've had no issues with my other Sudsy soaps. The irritation was relatively minimal but concerning and I quickly got to reviewing how I've modified my shave routine over the last couple of months. The fact is that my choice of brush and water temperature were the variables that appear to be at issue. Having purchased my original tub of soap back in June means that, until recently, I've only used this soap during a cold water shave (heat tends to be a component that influences sensitive skin issues for me) and my tendency had been to use my Cashmere synthetic brush when building a lather with the Delor de Treget. The fact is that the deep freeze of December has had me turning the tap for hot water ever since and my recent tendencies has been bringing my silvertip badger brush to my hand more often as of late. By moving back to a cold water shave and a soft synthetic brush I've managed to eliminate the irritation that I was experiencing with my beloved Delor de Treget.

Ingredients: Coconut Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Shea Butter, Butyrospermum Parkii, Castor Oil, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil, Kokum Butter, Garcinia Indica Seed Butter, Lanolin Anhydrous, USP, with Multani Mitti Clay, Solun Fullcnum (Fuller's Earth), Glycerin Vegetable, USP, Sodium Lactate, Essential Oils, Bentonite Clay, French Yellow Clay

The bottom line is that while this soap can cause some irritation I can eliminate it with the proper brush and water temperature. I've also become fond of finishing up with Chatillon Lux's matching splash and balm, which may also help to quench any irritation that I may experience. This may be too much effort for most but seeing as Delor de Treget has become my signature scent it is worth it to me.

I'm not terribly sensitive to most soap fragrances, but Mike's Hungarian Lavender lights me up like a Bernz-O-Matic. I also get a tingle from CRSW Savon #1 which also contains Hungarian/Bulgarian lavender. French, English, and Spanish products with lavender do not bother me at all. The Brutalt Bra TSN soap gives me a slight tingle, too. Like you, I am disappointed that I can't use these, all have great scents.

But there's another common factor between your list and mine, they're all artisan soaps. Sometimes I feel like the artisans just use too much fragrance or some other ingredient whereas most commericial soaps have the bugs worked out. JMO. I've never had a commercial soap give me any reaction. Some also gave little lather but that's another thread...

Cheers, Steve

Lavender is a known skin irritant. Just depends on the dose.

Henri et Victoria Savon Fin (La Poire Francaise)

i had the same horrible experience. It felt like acid!

Artisan soaps are always a gamble but the particular strain of SAD that I suffer from draws me to them. That isn't to say that I don't have soaps from established producers in my shave den but it's the artisans that tend to draw my attention when my SAD flares up. This little fact makes it far more likely that I get burned, both literally and figuratively, but I generally do at least some minimal research before I buy a new soap. Even then I prefer to start with samples to keep my risk low and generally only buy a full tub if I have some decent feedback or if the soap in question really grabs my attention.

All-in-all I would probably be an ideal guinea pig for testing artisan soaps if it wasn't for the fact that I generally keep my SAD under control. As it is my trials inspired me to start this thread, which I hope creates enough traffic to hang around and help others.

One interesting point to note is that, at present, I have yet to run across a tallow soap that has caused me issues. This is fine since I tend to prefer tallow formulas anyway. Unfortunately it seems that an increasing number of the established producers are going vegan and many artisans start there.

It really is unfortunate that some individuals are not able to use scented soaps that they really enjoy the scent of.
One of the easiest ways, for those who have overly sensitive skin, to rectify this situation would be to use unscented soaps and seeing as there are quite a few being offered by many great artisans, it may be a very prudent thing to consider. :)

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Originally Posted by rolodave

Henri et Victoria Savon Fin (La Poire Francaise)

i had the same horrible experience. It felt like acid!

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I wonder if that batch was not cured long enough leaving it somewhat caustic ?

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I wonder if that batch was not cured long enough leaving it somewhat caustic ?

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The sample was sent by rezdog to BobH and myself.

Rez said it did not bother his face.
BobH said it was a bit irritating.
It really irritated my face.

Different people with very different reactions to this soap.

YMMV for sure.

Both la Poire Française and the Douleur to Regret contain castor oil. Castor oil is known to cause skin irritation. It is added to soaps as a moisturizer. Our bowels don't like it either and spit it out if you like. That's why it is used as a laxative.

I feel sorry for those with sensitive skin. I'm fortunate that La Poire Française, and any other soap, doesn't irritate my skin because it's one of my favorite scents and it performs reasonably well. I have a wonderful pear tree in my back yard that I've nurtured for the past thirty years, and love the scent (and flavor) of ripened pears.

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Originally Posted by GreenRipper

Artisan soaps are always a gamble [...]

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That depends on which jurisdiction you live in. The FDA regulates "soaps" far less than its EU counterpart (incidentally, the reverse is true for perfumes, if memory serves).

In the US, you can basically go ahead, whack some stuff from Taobao or worse together in your bathtub, whack a label on it, make it go viral through shills and fake reviews, and you're off to becoming the next artisan shaving kit juggernaut. Case in point: Anything to come out of Phoenix. Don't believe me? Take samples to your trusted perfumer, ask them what the scents are. Would I put any of that on my skin? No. Way.

That said, I have never got along with Martin de Candre. It dries my skin. Does that make MdC a bad soap? Nope. It works for enough people, so the problem is mine.

Hence, the slightly nonsensical nature of this thread, as well as Obie's :boohoo:

Based on my experience, here are the most likely culprits and and some ideas.

The biggest culprit are the fragrance/essential oils. It's really hard to get the right amount. Too little and folks will complain. Too much and people will get burned. If you really like a soap and are getting burned, you might try melting it in a double boiler, low heat or a crock pot on low. If hard enough, grate it with a cheese grater. You may need to add a small amount of water. This will usually cause the fragrance oils to evaoporate.

The next culprit is shaving technique. I've had soaps that used to burn me, yet don't do so now. It took me a while to get a handle on 'shave the cream only and the whiskers will take care of themselves'. Proper shave prep figures in here as well.

The next culprits are things you can't control and can't use the soap. First, you may be particularly sensitive to an ingredient, usually a fragrance or essential oil. I have great luck with alcohol based after shaves. I can't use the ones that have witch hazel and aloe added because they burn me.

Finally, The basic action of making soap is combining fat/oil with lye. Every batch needs to be ph tested to ensure that there was enough fat/oil to completely saponify the lye. It gets ugly quickly if this step is missed and there is a problem.

A large part of my thoughts behind this thread is simply to gather information on the soaps that those of us with sensitive skin have had trouble with and see if there is any correlation. I have heard numerous theories (normally stated as fact) of what it is that causes our reactions but I have yet to see any proof. To be clear, I think each of us tend to have issues that are as individual as we are but I don't know that for a fact. This is an attempt to build something of a pool of information so that maybe we can draw some conclusions beyond the soaps I have tried myself and the theories that are already floating around.

Take fragrances, for instance. If most issues were caused by the fragrances used then most of us probably would have an adverse reaction to individual scents within a product line but experience no discomfort from others. What I've evidenced personally is that while that holds true for some product lines it is hardly universal. This fact alone makes me question the belief that the fragrance oils are usually the issue.

To be clear, my background is in science and I like data, even if it is largely anecdotal. It costs me nothing but a little time to post my experiences with soaps that cause me irritation. It costs me even less to simply ask other members of this great community to post their experiences. If I'm lucky I might learn something that I can actually apply to my shaving routine, and thereby deepen my love of our hobby. If I'm really lucky maybe I'll help someone else identify a problem and keep them from wasting money on a product that is destined to cause them the pain and irritation that some of these soaps have caused me. If nothing comes of this then all I've wasted is a little time and effort, a sacrifice I'm more than willing to make.

I haven't found any. Caveat is I don't use many artisan creams or soaps. The only one I do use is Green Mountain soap and I find that very good soap. I find some soaps more drying especially those mainly using a predominantly coconut/stearate base. When it comes to Top Tier and best. That's all YMMV. Most soaps in those lists I don't use. I stick to commercial products because I feel they have better batch consistency both in lathering and scent.

Most of the top tiers are commercial, that's what makes them so good, a long history and better ingredients in most cases, even the low cost ones like Arko is very good, a commercial soap. Tc

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Originally Posted by GreenRipper

...I have heard numerous theories (normally stated as fact) of what it is that causes our reactions but I have yet to see any proof. To be clear, I think each of us tend to have issues that are as individual as we are but I don't know that for a fact. This is an attempt to build something of a pool of information so that maybe we can draw some conclusions beyond the soaps I have tried myself and the theories that are already floating around.

Take fragrances, for instance. If most issues were caused by the fragrances used then most of us probably would have an adverse reaction to individual scents within a product line but experience no discomfort from others. What I've evidenced personally is that while that holds true for some product lines it is hardly universal. This fact alone makes me question the belief that the fragrance oils are usually the issue.

To be clear, my background is in science and I like data, even if it is largely anecdotal....

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There are a few tings in this post I don't agree with and will share some more detail to explain why.

Consider fragrance for a moment. I make and scent a lot of soap, alcohol based aftershave, pre-shave oil and after shave balm. I also study essential and fragrance oil.

There have been many times the that the base, which are the ingredients excluding fragrance, work well. I'll then work on various scents, keeping the formula and results in a spreadsheet. So, the only variable is the fragrance oil or essential oil. Some burn and some don't. Due to there being only one variable, I'm confident that my assertion is correct.


As an example, I recently developed what I though was the perfect Bay Rum, though it set me on fire. It had several fragrances, such as black pepper and cinnamon, which I suspected to be the problem. I reformulated it, with the only changes being in the fragrance/essential oil and it worked perfectly.

The ability of of scent oils to cause problems is sufficiently known that manufacturers advise when to keep an eye out for this.

Along the same lines of sharing accurate information, consider soap. One of the two key ingredients in soap is lye. One use of lye is to dissolve animal carcasses. It is nasty stuff. One of the basic rules of soap making is to test every batch to ensure all of the lye saponified. Either forgetting this step, or failing to mix the soap sufficiently can lead to lye being in the soap.

Keep in mind that most shaving soap companies are small mom and pop shops - it isn't only the artisans. Many aren't sophisticated enough to have industrial controls like larger companies. Castle Forbes, which I consider the best shaving cream of all, started in 1996 in a converted dairy barn. Not sure if they have moved or not.

Unrelated to the post I quoted, though commenting on what some others in this thread have said, I find many of the artisan's to have awesome soap.

GreenRipper,

Thank you for this thread.

It hits especially home for me with my ultra-sensitive skin. Through the years, I have eliminated more soaps and creams than I can remember. The one soap that absolutely destroyed my skin was Boellis Panama 1924.

This stuff, which comes in a fancy container and is pricey, fried my skin like Napalm. I don't think I even finished my first pass before scrubbing the lather off my face and changing brushes. OY! A day or so later, a friend from Chicago called and expressed the same reaction to this soap.

Yet, many people love this soap. And so it goes . . .

With a few exceptions, I generally keep away from the swarm of artisan-made soaps and creams: they lack comfortable skin properties and their fragrances are medical or synthetic. For instance, smell Castle Forbes' lime shave cream and then smell all the other limes made by artisan soap makers — miles apart.

As time goes on, my soap and cream comfort level keeps shrinking. As I finish some, I know I will not replace them. Eventually, I think I'll trim my lineup to soaps and creams that give my face sweet smooches: Castle Forbes, Martin de Candre, Baum.Be, Mitchell's Wool Fat, Czech & Speak, Wholly Kaw's Jamestown Gentleman, Oleo's Irving Park, and a few others I can't recall right now.

Perhaps we need to qualify what "sensitive skin" or "ultra-sensitive skin" is? Is it a recognized medical condition, and so on? All skin is sensitive in essence.

That said, one fragrance of shaving soaps that I cannot tolerate is bay rum. That really sets my face on fire during the shaving process. A pity as I love bay rum as an aftershave and as a scented facial soap in the shower.

I think there is also such a thing as gradual sensitisation. I used Cella for years yet now I notice a burning if I use it.
As far as I know I don't have sensitive skin.

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Originally Posted by Pete123

There are a few tings in this post I don't agree with and will share some more detail to explain why.

Consider fragrance for a moment. I make and scent a lot of soap, alcohol based aftershave, pre-shave oil and after shave balm. I also study essential and fragrance oil.

There have been many times the that the base, which are the ingredients excluding fragrance, work well. I'll then work on various scents, keeping the formula and results in a spreadsheet. So, the only variable is the fragrance oil or essential oil. Some burn and some don't. Due to there being only one variable, I'm confident that my assertion is correct.


As an example, I recently developed what I though was the perfect Bay Rum, though it set me on fire. It had several fragrances, such as black pepper and cinnamon, which I suspected to be the problem. I reformulated it, with the only changes being in the fragrance/essential oil and it worked perfectly.

The ability of of scent oils to cause problems is sufficiently known that manufacturers advise when to keep an eye out for this.

Along the same lines of sharing accurate information, consider soap. One of the two key ingredients in soap is lye. One use of lye is to dissolve animal carcasses. It is nasty stuff. One of the basic rules of soap making is to test every batch to ensure all of the lye saponified. Either forgetting this step, or failing to mix the soap sufficiently can lead to lye being in the soap.

Keep in mind that most shaving soap companies are small mom and pop shops - it isn't only the artisans. Many aren't sophisticated enough to have industrial controls like larger companies. Castle Forbes, which I consider the best shaving cream of all, started in 1996 in a converted dairy barn. Not sure if they have moved or not.

Unrelated to the post I quoted, though commenting on what some others in this thread have said, I find many of the artisan's to have awesome soap.

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It's interesting that we seem to be relating very similar experiences but drawing rather different conclusions. To be fair, I think I understand what you are saying: when you mix your own soaps (or aftershave treatments) you start with a base that doesn't cause any issues for you but when you add certain fragrance oils to that base it then causes irritation.

In this case there is very little argument that the fragrance oils are the culprit. If this is the case then the next step in the trial process is to tinker with concentrations or find a substitute for some of the components of the fragrance. I am completely in agreement that this can certainly be the origin of some skin sensitivity issues and probably accounts for a decent percentage of issues that some of us deal with.

The other side of that coin comes down to those formulas that begin with a base soap formulation that some of us may be sensitive to. I have no hard evidence that this is the case but I have plenty of circumstantial evidence for it. In the soaps I listed above I mentioned the Black Ship Grooming soaps. In this case all three scents I tried (samples) resulted in the same reaction. So I can either surmise that base formula contains one or more ingredients to which I'm sensitive, there is a fragrance oil common to all three which is the problem or there is a quality control issue that is prevalent across different batches of soap.

The third issue is very possible but if the QC at Black Ship, or any other soap producer, is so poor then I should simply avoid all of their products...done. The second issue is difficult to trace as most producers are, understandably, rather proprietary in regards to their scent formulas. The first issue though is the one that I'm primarily concerned with.

Let's face it, most artisans are choosing their ingredients based on a number of different factors including, but not limited to, their preference in how a soap is produced, how it feels when used, the ability to lather and cost. In many cases I suspect, being artisans without a big budget, that concerns about skin sensitivity aren't high on their priority list. To be clear, I don't think that any of these manufacturers are careless regarding their potential customer but I do believe that the variables that are involved in making a fantastic soap that won't light anyone up are numerous and are probably not universal. Given all of this it is very probable that some producers are using base formulas that will cause sensitivity reactions with some of us that suffer from such issues.

Again, I don't know any of this but I'm merely trying to gather data at this point. As it is a couple of the soaps I've already mentioned share an interesting commonality in that instead of using sodium hydroxide (lye) they use potassium hydroxide. I'm curious as this is an issue for me or not.