Beginner Q: Soap vs Cream? Which is easier to lather?

Last night I made my first attempts at making a lather. I recently bought a Boar brush and a puck of beer soap I bought from Dirty Deeds Soaps. I chose boar because I prefer the stiffer/scratchier textures on my face, though one day I will get a badger brush to compare. For now, I was plenty happy with the Boar.

So my first attempt was a complete bust. My second I got some lather, but it dried quickly. I was able to use it to shave and I got the best shave I've ever had with a cartridge razor. Less cutting on my face, significantly less razor burn. I still bled a little and I still had some sensitive "burned" areas on my neck. Huge improvement.

I made a third attept and got a much richer lather, but it still wasn't optimal. I believe I'm not using enough soap, coupled with too much water. This is something I know I'll get with practice.

But my question is, which is easier to work up a good lather, cream or soap? It took me a while to get the meager soap lathers I had, though I'm hoping with practice it gets quicker. It just seems that with soap lather there's a huge amount of variables. Is cream the more straightforward option? I'm just trying to decide what to try when this puck is gone...a different soap or a cream?

Are you making lather in the same cup/mug that has the soap?

Cream is easier to lather usually.
For soap you have to develop a bit of technique to get it right also the brush of choice will play a role in the lather making process.
check out Mantic's channel on you tube, he has very nice tutorial videos
How To Build And Apply Traditional Shaving Lather - YouTube

The challenge of making lather in a mug that has the soap puck at the bottom is that the soap to water ratio is constantly changing. As you are swishing your brush around making lather, you are constantly brushing against the soap puck, bringing in more soap to the ratio. It can be done, but it takes practice. If your lather doesn't work for you, rinse the lather out and try again - soap is pretty cheap. Shaving cream, on the other hand, can start to get expensive.

I have not used the soap listed above, but some just do not have it in them to turn in to the super duper i'm walking on sunshine on a cloudy day lather.

If you have a bath and body works near you, stop by and pick up a small tube of C.O. Bigelow for $5 and see if you have better luck.

btw, have you tried face lathering? For some reason it was always easier for me.

jerrybyers' question is really important. I understand that one loads the brush on the soap puck (with an almost dry brush (after soaking and wringing)) and then makes the soap in another cup, where one can control the mix of soap and water. If you try to make the lather on the puck, the soap/water mix changes constantly. However, to actually answer the question, I find cream easier, though I think shortly I'll branch out into only soaps for a while.

I ALWAYS shake my brush, after soaking, for five shakes (No more, no less). I then start to make the lather, and mix in only a few drops of water at a time, dribbled from my hand (I never dip the brush). I actually go to the probably extraordinary length of ensuring I shake the water off my hand after dribbling a few drops of water in the bowl; just in case some water drips down my hand into the bowl. I do this as I find there is a really very fine line between too dry, just right and too watery.

I believe, in my limited experience and knowledge, that boars hair brushes are actually quite good. The other day I came across horse hair brushes for the first time on the 'net! Horse Shaving Brushes | Gifts And Care

Überlather, of course, IMO, gives the best of both worlds.

I'm of the opinion if you have to uberlather to get good results from a soap/cream, it goes to /dev/null. A soap or cream should be able to stand on its own.

Long before I ever picked up a straight razor, I used the Mach type razors. I also used a mug of Williams soap and a boar brush reliqously. I face lathered, and had no trouble. I don't know of Dirty Deeds Beer soap, maybe someone does, and will chime in, but if you lather right from the puck to your face, I.E. Put it in a mug, wet it, and the brush, shake out excess, and whip away, you should get some lather. To answer your question, Yes, Creams tend to provide more lather. Also, Target and Wal Mart super center's usually have Van Der Hagen soap. A lot of the member's rave about it. Give it a try.

To me it's a non-issue because if you can lather, well maybe it takes a few seconds longer to do a soap but that's not an issue. Kind of like someone buying a frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwich rather than make one themselves.

But to the question, yea creams are easier.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I'm of the opinion if you have to uberlather to get good results from a soap/cream, it goes to /dev/null. A soap or cream should be able to stand on its own.

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Is that a Unix comment? I'm not saying I HAVE to; I also use soaps and creams on their own, but I like the frothiness of Überlather. I guess we could all dress like Kim Jong Il, too, but it's nice to mix and match :-)

Ok...to answer the questions here...

I keep the soap puck on a wooden dish and I use a handled soup bowl for making the lather. I'm pretty sure my drying issues from the last time were because I just didn't load enough soap onto the brush, and also because I used too much water. It seems that while cream is easier, it's also pretty much a negligible difference, so while I'll probably try some shaving cream at some point, I'll stick to the soap for now. I'll probably try the Van der Hagen too once this puck runs out.

I did try lathering right on my face and I didn't like it. I'd prefer to have it in a bowl.

I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow. Because my straight is still out being honed, I'm stuck using mach3...and even though my soap shave was LEAGUES better than when I used foam, my face still needs a few days to recover.

Ok so I had another go-round with the soap puck. I did a little better. Soap still dried pretty quickly on my face, so I lathered and shaved in areas rather than the whole face at once. Shave was closer than last time, but the Mach3 still ripped my neck into a bloody mess. Can't wait to get my straight back from honing. When I was done shaving I practiced my lather-making again and it was the best yet, but there's more to go. I'm still not really happy with the soap lather I'm getting, so I'd like some feedback on my methods if anyone is willing to help out...here goes.

I soak the brush (boar) in hot water while I'm in the shower (if I'm not showering, I soak 5-10 minutes). I put a little hot water on the puck too, and soak for the same length of time. Then I drain my bowl, wring the water out of the brush and dump the excess water off the puck. Then, I swirl on puck...45 seconds (I was only doing about 20 seconds before, and on my latest try I doubled it with much success). I then beat the lather in the bowl, like I would with eggs, adding drops of water periodically if the lather looks too thick. I do this for about 20-30 seconds. Then I apply to my face in a swirling/painting motion.

I was able to scoop some out and roll it around my hands and it felt nice...creamy, slippery and thick, but not too thick, IMO...I was already done shaving so I don't know how it would have done on my face.

I'm also wondering how much lather should I produce? For some reason I have the idea that I need to fill the bowl, but what I'm getting amounts to a handful, I think.

Any thoughts? Am I doing anything wrong?

You want to FILL the bowl? What are you going to DO with it, wash the dog and cat as well? :-)
I end up washing 1/2 my lather down the sink anyway, when I make a good lather, which is pretty much everyday. Today I used just Windsor and it was RUBBISH, really, really thin. The shave ended up OK though.

I would say your method sounds perfect (as perfect as it gets).

Have you tried another soap? To be honest, I've only used two (Windsor and Crabtree and Evelyn Nomad; I'm still pretty new to straight razor shaving (3 mths) and used Palmolive with a disposable for YEARS, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but the difference between these two is astonishing. Maybe try another soap? I can't obviously recommend anything other than the Nomad.

I think if you're bleeding after using a Mach3, then there's SOMETHING amiss! But your description on the soap sounds good, you seem to have plenty of it, and it sounds like it 'feels' OK. What else might be wrong, if not the soap?

I ask about volume because every video or pictorial I've seen seems to create more lather than I do. So I wasn't sure.

It's good that my method sounds ok...I feel like it might be too dry, which is why it's drying out so quickly. It feels fine in my hand, but it just melts away on my face, which I've read may indicate too little water. I'm going to stop at the store today and maybe pick up a cream or another soap, although I do really like the soap I have now.

I'm a recent defector from electric shaving. The cost of that became prohibitive so I switched to mach3. Besides the fact that my face doesn't like those blades, I can only use them once before the blades go too dull, because I have a tough beard. I don't want to spent $400 on a new electric, and I don't want to spend $400 on cartridges every year, so here I am dawdling with straight razors. I'm hoping to have my straight back from the honemeister this week so I can begin in earnest. But I've put together a decent beginner's kit for about $75, so I'm pretty happy so far and my face is happier with each passing day.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I have not used the soap listed above, but some just do not have it in them to turn in to the super duper i'm walking on sunshine on a cloudy day lather.

If you have a bath and body works near you, stop by and pick up a small tube of C.O. Bigelow for $5 and see if you have better luck.

btw, have you tried face lathering? For some reason it was always easier for me.

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I love that Bigelow shave cream from Bath and Body. It's made by Proraso and it says so on the tube; Obie introduced me to it. I like mixing it with some left over AOS. Bath and Body has a large tube of Bigelow for $10.

I use an empty shaving soap container with a screw on lid to create lather in. If I make up more lather than I use, the container is great for saving it for the next day's shave - no waste. But any resealable container is good.

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I think if you're bleeding after using a Mach3, then there's SOMETHING amiss! But your description on the soap sounds good, you seem to have plenty of it, and it sounds like it 'feels' OK. What else might be wrong, if not the soap?

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I was thinking the same thing, Are you using too much pressure? or do you have bumps, areas on your face that make shaving challenging?

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Originally Posted by zib

I was thinking the same thing, Are you using too much pressure? or do you have bumps, areas on your face that make shaving challenging?

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Seriously here, perhaps you might want to see a dermatologist.

I've never heard of the soap you're using. As others have said, try something else. I've found some local soap makers who sell "shaving soap" but it flat out sucks for wet shaving. Maybe if I just rubbed the puck on my wet face it would work well. The Bigelow/Proraso stuff is good. If you have a Rite Aid nearby they usually carry a brand called "The Real Shave Co". It is a cream and is $5-$6. Not stellar but it produces a good lather, quickly. The scent is also mild. I tend to use it for mixing with soaps that I like the smell of that just don't lather well. Other easily affordable options include the SRD and Mama Bear soaps. Great stuff, either way. They'll fill your bowl if that's what you want them to do. TOBS can also be found on Amazon for around $12 a tub from time to time. The VDH soap, while nothing amazing is only $3 a puck and works halfway decently.
Personally, I'd rather spend the extra few bucks for something better but if you combine it with your soap it may work wonderfully.

If you want to fill your bowl with lather you can, but you'll waste a lot of it. If it dries out on your face you can also wet your face first.
I've got a pretty spartan routine that I enjoy-
Soak Brush for 5 minutes in cold water.
Shake it once or twice then rub my face lightly with the wet brush.
With my TOBS, I swirl it 4 times in the tub and start making lather. I usually add 5-6 drops of water to it as the lather forms up.
For soaps each one is different but I load it up until I like how it looks. Add water to lather bowl if needed. If you have too much soap it will dry out too quickly so mess around making lather and not shaving with it.
Then I lather up for a minute or so and really scrub it in
Strop. 30 on Webbing, 50ish on leather.
Shave. If my lather is starting to dry I add a few drops to the bowl, mix them in and paint my face again.

I have a Rite-Aid near my house so I'll try to pick some of that up tonight. I like your idea of mixing it with the soap, because I really like the smell and it's done wonders for my skin. Next time I'm at the mall I plan on picking up the Bigelow stuff.

As for the bleeding, I have a patch of skin on my neck that's really sensitive. It's just below the chin, down the entire the middle of the neck. My beard is also thick, so 2 or three passes of a triple bladed razor is just too much for it to handle. And if I use just one pass, the stubble looks like I took a weedwhacker to it because the blades get immediately clogged and don't cut anything. I barely use any pressure but those blades still cause all these little bleeding pinpricks. Fun times, folks.

What are you using for your post shave routine? The Nivea stuff for sensitive skin is great.

picked up a tube of the real shaving co from rite aid. for $4 it was worth a try. i'll put a little dab in my soap lather tomorrow.

as for post-shave, I dab the bleeding areas with my styptic, then apply Gillette Aftershave gel for sensitive skin. I like it a lot, but I'm open to other things too.

I get more irritation when I shave after a shower, so I'm going to try a cold shave tomorrow before I jump in the shower to see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by U2Bono269

picked up a tube of the real shaving co from rite aid. for $4 it was worth a try. i'll put a little dab in my soap lather tomorrow.

as for post-shave, I dab the bleeding areas with my styptic, then apply Gillette Aftershave gel for sensitive skin. I like it a lot, but I'm open to other things too.

I get more irritation when I shave after a shower, so I'm going to try a cold shave tomorrow before I jump in the shower to see how it goes.

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That reminds me of my pre straight razor days when I got the idea of using my disposable to shave in the shower. Man did my neck get irritated, well so was I that day. I still use Gillette's post shave gel too, I alternate it with Nivea's after shave balm.

Try a pre shave oil, make sure it's not for electric razors, we'll hear you scream!! I use Anthony pre-shave oil on my neck and it's great!

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Originally Posted by U2Bono269

picked up a tube of the real shaving co from rite aid. for $4 it was worth a try. i'll put a little dab in my soap lather tomorrow.

as for post-shave, I dab the bleeding areas with my styptic, then apply Gillette Aftershave gel for sensitive skin. I like it a lot, but I'm open to other things too.

I get more irritation when I shave after a shower, so I'm going to try a cold shave tomorrow before I jump in the shower to see how it goes.

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I do a warm shave every now and then but a cold or cool shave is what I do most often. Feels good. Then I do cold water rinse, splash on a bit of the Thayers + Aloe Witch Hazel (I like the cucumber scent) which I purchase at my local GNC or Hippie store.
Then I massage in an asb of some sort. Usually Nivea (i bought a lot when it was on sale) or I will mix some of an after shave splash with some corn huskers lotion in my palms and rub that in.

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Originally Posted by U2Bono269

I ask about volume because every video or pictorial I've seen seems to create more lather than I do. So I wasn't sure.

It's good that my method sounds ok...I feel like it might be too dry, which is why it's drying out so quickly. It feels fine in my hand, but it just melts away on my face, which I've read may indicate too little water. I'm going to stop at the store today and maybe pick up a cream or another soap, although I do really like the soap I have now.

I'm a recent defector from electric shaving. The cost of that became prohibitive so I switched to mach3. Besides the fact that my face doesn't like those blades, I can only use them once before the blades go too dull, because I have a tough beard. I don't want to spent $400 on a new electric, and I don't want to spend $400 on cartridges every year, so here I am dawdling with straight razors. I'm hoping to have my straight back from the honemeister this week so I can begin in earnest. But I've put together a decent beginner's kit for about $75, so I'm pretty happy so far and my face is happier with each passing day.

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Oh, I think maybe they 'overdo' the volume a little for demonstration purposes. If you've seen the Uberlather video the amount of lather is astonishing! I found when I started I actually had to practice lathering. Weird, I know, but it saves having to shave with a second rate lather. Just make some up, add water in tiny increments, keep track of what you are doing, and stop when it looks right. Then keep adding water. It should collapse. You then know the right amount and the 'too much' amount. Temperature also seems to be a determinant. The Windsor cream I have also 'melts away' on the face and disappears almost.

Electric razor shaving, to me, sounds awful, which is clearly why you've changed :-)

It's good you're keeping at it. My beard is quite light, and i don't know HOW I would have got on if I had a thick beard like an Italian man or something, I guess it would be very difficult.

Go well, Carl

well, I guess I've got some good news and bad news?

So the good news is that I tried the Real Shaving Co cream. I mixed it with my soap, decided I didn't like it, and then just whipped up a batch of cream. I got a pretty good lather on the first try and it went on well and stayed on much longer than the soap. It was smoother, creamier and more workable than the soap or the soap/cream combo. I loved it. But, then, I shaved.

I realized I had no more Mach3 cartridges, so I was stuck using a mach3 disposable I had laying around from the summer. It handled my cheeks pretty well, but by that point my beard made the blades so dull I had the worst, most painful shave of my life. I can't even give a fair assessment of the cream because the razor was such a battle it's not even funny. I had about 10 or 20 little nicks all around my neck, huge razor burn, and IT DIDN'T EVEN CUT ALL THE HAIR. I still have some stubble.

It's going to be at least 3 or 4 days for me to heal from this before I can shave again. By that point, my straight will FINALLY have returned to me (mail delayed it).

This was truly awful.

While you can use wet shaving soap and cream with a Mach3, it doesn't give you the protection like you would get from modern shaving gel/foam. The soap/cream is about water volume while a modern shaving cream/gel is about glide or lubrication. Whenever I shave with wet shaving soap and a Mach3, my skin is irritated.

I would give your skin some time off to heal. At least, you have experienced a good shaving cream.

I think I'm definitely a cream person now. Even though my face feels a little healthier after the soap, I get a better lather and a cleaner shave with the cream. So I've been using the cream to shave and the soap just to clean my face. I need to get to B&BW for some of that Bigelow cream.

BTW, Bay Rum is the greatest scent ever.

Creams are definitely easier to start with but building a lather with (good) soap isn't hard at all.
I don't have much experience with the more traditional soaps yet but the SRD & Mama Bear soaps both lather up easily and have a lot of glycerin in them so your face should feel really nice when you're done.
For the creams my faves are palmolive, al's (member alraz) bomb's and TOBS. Al's is the best cream I've tried bit it doesn't seem to like my hard water so it takes some work to get it right but it's worth it.

U2,

Maybe after all is said, done, and tried, you are a beard person. If modern steels in triplet can't cope with your beard, it would seem that one, big, old fashioned straight would be challenged beyond its ability to cope with the apparent 12 gauge wire of your whiskers. Or stock up on barber hones and touch up your blade after each cheek and before the jowls. Best of luck.

ooh, I hope that's not the case. I can't stand facial hair, and neither can my wife. But in the few weeks since I've been trying to branch out and find more effective ways to shave, I've paid significantly more attention to my face and my beard. I know a lot of people say to have a hot shower to soften the stubble, and I can say that even after a long, hot soak the stubble feels just as prickly as it did when it was dry. I think the straight has the potential to get the job done, so here's hoping.

Try cold water. I use hot water every now and then but I find a cold water shave consistently gives me less irritation and a smoother shave. I've even read a few folks on here put an ice cube in their lather bowl to keep it cold. I just use cold water for my soak and lather and wipe the blade off with a cold wet washcloth.

I tried it with the mach 3 and there was no discernable difference. once I get a handful of straight shaves under my belt I'll try it with that.

An idea to try if your being frugal is to try the Palmolive or similar shave stick. The concept is to cut off a thin slice and press it into the bottom of your bowl or mug. Press hard, spread it out a little. Now use that for your lather making like you would with the expensive soaps. Rinse out the mug and save the rest of the pressed slice for the next shave. A stick will last you forever.

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Originally Posted by U2Bono269

I tried it with the mach 3 and there was no discernable difference. once I get a handful of straight shaves under my belt I'll try it with that.

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Once you get the straight and are comfy with it I'm sure you'll see a difference. Another idea for you if you stumble across a decently priced Gillette Fat Boy or Slim one of those would be worth picking up. They're great adjustable DE razors and with all of the blade options out there (Feather, Gillette 7 O'clock, etc) you may find a great combo that helps for the tougher areas while you're figuring out the straight.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I'm of the opinion if you have to uberlather to get good results from a soap/cream, it goes to /dev/null. A soap or cream should be able to stand on its own.

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Slartibartfast, is your name Andrej? (if not, i have a friend with a very similar sense of humor to yours. And I think he would approve of your avatar)

Negative. Name is Ben

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