Lather goes on strong but then wimps out

I have been using a DE for about 6 weeks and a shavette for about 3 and I think I got the lather building down fairly quickly and have been experimenting with different soaps and creams. The problem with that is that you don't get to know any one of them real well and that may be my problem but I have been experimenting with Mama Bear's Canadian Spruce Needle soap and it lathers so well I can stand my brush up in the bowl but it doesn't hold up well. When I lather for the second pass there are more visible bubbles in the lather and it doesn't cover my face as well. By the third pass it is about useless! I also use Omega, Proraso, and Taylor of Old Bond Street and don't have much problem with these. Is the Mama Bear soap more difficult to deal with or is there something different you must do to get a better lathe with it? Anyone have experience with the Mama Bear soaps that can set me straight?

Jim

I have been using a DE for about 6 weeks and a shavette for about 3 and I think I got the lather building down fairly quickly and have been experimenting with different soaps and creams. The problem with that is that you don't get to know any one of them real well and that may be my problem but I have been experimenting with Mama Bear's Canadian Spruce Needle soap and it lathers so well I can stand my brush up in the bowl but it doesn't hold up well. When I lather for the second pass there are more visible bubbles in the lather and it doesn't cover my face as well. By the third pass it is about useless! I also use Omega, Proraso, and Taylor of Old Bond Street and don't have much problem with these. Is the Mama Bear soap more difficult to deal with or is there something different you must do to get a better lathe with it? Anyone have experience with the Mama Bear soaps that can set me straight?

Jim

jgthomas11,

Not a solution, but when this sort of thing happens to me, I add a small pea-sized dollop (US - snurdle) of a neutral aroma'd shaving cream ( I use Palmolive ) to the mix. This seems to stabilize the lather, whilst not over-powering your main soap.

Good luck !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

My initial though would be that you don't get the brush loaded enough.

I leave about a teaspoon of warm water on top of the soap while in the shower to soften it, makes is much easier to load, then I load the brush for ~30 sec. I have found this to be more crucial with MB than any of my other soaps.

I do the same as zephyr. I usually run the hot tap for my brush bowl and put some in the mama bear container and let that sit with the lid on it while showering. Drain and load the brush until lather is coming out of the mamma bear tub (30-40 seconds). After that it's ready for either face lathering on a wet face or into the empty brush bowl to be worked up.

I generally make my lather in bowls thick until thick like whipped cream, perhaps almost dry. Then when I apply to a wet face (hot water), the little bit of water on my face and the almost dry lather combine to perfection :) well, at least I think so lol.

I've got about 7 mamma bear soaps, love them all.

Jim,

Spend a little more time loading your brush with Mama Bear. The large bubbles indicate you have not whipped the lather enough. Spend more time creating that lather. Watch your water ratio and try not to make the water too hot. Properly whipped and with the right amount of water you'll have plenty of lather, because Mama Bear is a quality soap.

Larger bubbles can be a sign that the brush requires more soap. Try just adding some soap for the second and third pass.

Like has been said, I find very, very hot water in the soap/creams is counter productive. I use very warm water now, not hot water and things work fine.

Are you wetting your face inbetween passes

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Originally Posted by Castel33

Are you wetting your face inbetween passes

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Big +1.

I learned early on that when you bowl lather you already have a good water to soap ratio, so if you wet your face between passes you end up diluting your lather over and over causing weak lather near the end. Something else you can try is giving your brush a few swirls on the puck (literally only 3-4) which will give you plenty more soap to finish the shave. Remember, there's no rule that says you can only use the initial lather made in the bowl; if you find you need a bit more lather just make a little more. :)

Thanks, Obie!

I used this soap again this morning and had the same problem. Initially it goes on fine but by the time I go for the second pass the lather in the bowl is beginning to show signs of becoming sudsy. The thick lather that I originally started with is now starting thin though still usable for the second pass but worth little by the third pass and any touch-up needed must be performed with little more than sudsy water.

I will try what you suggest and not have the water quite as hot. I am presently spending about 2 minutes originally whipping... guess I'll try 3.


Jim

Jim,
Also don't forget to load the brush heavily. Start by gently squeezing as much water as possible from the brush — just damp enough. Then load. Heavily. When you start making lather in the bowl, drizzle in little bit of water. Keep doing that, watching your water carefully. Spend a good two or three minutes whipping up your lather, tamping your brush occasionally. Keep working on it. By now you should rich lather. And yes, keep the water warm and not hot. You'll get there. Keep trying.

Good thought, I'll try that!

Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obie

Jim,
Also don't forget to load the brush heavily. Start by gently squeezing as much water as possible from the brush — just damp enough. Then load. Heavily. When you start making lather in the bowl, drizzle in little bit of water. Keep doing that, watching your water carefully. Spend a good two or three minutes whipping up your lather, tamping your brush occasionally. Keep working on it. By now you should rich lather. And yes, keep the water warm and not hot. You'll get there. Keep trying.

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Thanks again, Obie. I practiced some last night with this soap and used very little water and I did get a very creamy lather but did not actually use it so I don't know how well it will hold up. I will be using it tonight as I just received a Dovo Shavette in today's mail. Looking forward to the razor and nice rich shave lather.

Jim

Yes, and quite liberally!


Jim

Thanks, PhatMan... I will give it a try.

Jim

I have been trying to do the same. Again, I am new at this and perhaps one of the problems is that having about 4 or 5 other soaps/creams means I have not been able to get to know any one of them really well.

Last night soaked my brush (a silver tip badger) and layered the soap with water and put the top back on jar while I showered. After the shower I squeezed the as much of the water out of the brush as I could, without strangling the thing, then poured the water from the soap loaded the brush for at least 30 - 40 seconds and afterwards worked up a lather in the bowl for a couple of minutes before applying to my face. Again, the lather did not hold up! After the first pass I dumped the remaining lather and built up more using the Omega cream that I have. This time I had to add a fair amount of extra water. The lather was very thick and held up for the last too passes and some touch-up.

I haven't given up on the Mama Bear yet but I am a bit of a loss to explain it as I have been trying about everything that has been suggested in this thread! I was wondering if this could be a bad batch or there has been a reformulation!? I also have Proraso cream in a tube and a container of their harder cream (or is it soap...), the Omega cream that I mentioned, and some Taylor of Old Bond Street Sandlewood and have no problems with any of it! I am wondering if the problem is that I just need more time working with the harder soaps??

Jim

Couple questions:

1. The Taylor of bond street is that the cream or the soap?

2. This is your fist glycerine based soap?

3. You explained your loading process but stop after going to the bowl. Did you add more water?

4. Did you have good lather for the first pass even?


I am thinking your issue is that glycerine based soaps are different then all the other soaps and creams you have used. Creams need very little water, while the italian soft soaps are a bit of a water hog and the tallow based soaps like a far amount of water also. The glycerine needs more water the creams but a lot less the the Italian soft soaps. So I am thinking on your last try you didn't have enough water mixed in. Do the same prep you did last time but this time when you reach what you think is good lather add about three or four more drops of water. I mean wet your hand a let four drops of water drip from it into your bowl . I think this will get you there.

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Originally Posted by jgthomas11

perhaps one of the problems is that having about 4 or 5 other soaps/creams means I have not been able to get to know any one of them really well.

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Yes, that could be an issue. I would highly recommend sticking with one soap or cream exclusively for at least a week (depending on how often you shave) to get to know the soap well, learning the sweet spots and intricacies. Two weeks might actually be better, which is what I did when I was learning. Nowadays I still do a week until I feel I have it down pat. If you have more than one brush try to use only one as well (a top performer).

As well, it is possible to get a bad batch of soap every now and then, but if you're new I daresay it's not the soap...

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

I would highly recommend sticking with one soap or cream exclusively for at least a week (depending on how often you shave) to get to know the soap well, learning the sweet spots and intricacies. Two weeks might actually be better, which is what I did when I was learning. Nowadays I still do a week until I feel I have it down pat. If you have more than one brush try to use only one as well (a top performer).

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This a good point, and I do the same thing. You really get to know the soap that way. There's been quite a few soaps I didn't like out of box. It took me a few times, to "get it", and then I wind up liking them. Mama Bear's is actually good soap once you get it down.

What I do many times is load the brush holding the soap tub upside down. I saw Mantic59 do this on youtube, and I gave it a try. It really helps to get the soap into your brush.

And.....You can always "Uber" a soap if it'll help you. That's where you add a small amount of shave cream, preferably non scented, like Kiss my Face." That will allow the fragrance of the soap to come through. You also add 4 or 5 drops of Glycerin. This is very helpful for the folks that have hard water.

One of Glen's Uber recipes: Mitchell's wool fat + Musgo real shave cream + 5 drops of glycerin = "Lanolin Overload" A lot guys do this even if they don't need to. This particular recipe is my favorite. It gives you loads of lather, great cushion, glide, and the lanolin is really moisturizing....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Castel33

Couple questions:

1. The Taylor of bond street is that the cream or the soap?

2. This is your fist glycerine based soap?

3. You explained your loading process but stop after going to the bowl. Did you add more water?

4. Did you have good lather for the first pass even?


I am thinking your issue is that glycerine based soaps are different then all the other soaps and creams you have used. Creams need very little water, while the italian soft soaps are a bit of a water hog and the tallow based soaps like a far amount of water also. The glycerine needs more water the creams but a lot less the the Italian soft soaps. So I am thinking on your last try you didn't have enough water mixed in. Do the same prep you did last time but this time when you reach what you think is good lather add about three or four more drops of water. I mean wet your hand a let four drops of water drip from it into your bowl . I think this will get you there.

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1. It is a cream.

2. Yes this is my first glycerine based soap. Actually this is my only real soap unless you count the Proraso. Not sure if it is a soap or a cream.

3. Very little. Lately my best success with it is when I actually squeeze the water from my brush. The brush is a Parker silver tip badger.

4. First pass lather was only fair.

I have been practicing (guess I need a life) with this soap and I get the best lather when I use very little water. It seems to be very unforgiving if you add a couple of drops extra. Applying it to a very wet face seems to dilute the lather noticeably! I have tried adding more water and it is reduced to suds.

I used it again last night when I shaved (not a practice session) and got decent results. What I did was:

1. allowed a puddle of water sit on the soap for about 10 minutes while I showered

2. squeezed the water out of the brush

3. loaded the brush for about a minute and built some lather right in the soap container

4. using the very loaded brush built a thick lather in the bowl

5. applied the resulting to my wet right cheek. The lather was rather dry so I

6. added about 4 - 6 drops of water to the bowl and lathered some more

7. applied that lather and shaved two passes

8. loaded the brush a little more and whipped up more lather

9. used it for the last pass and a little touch up.

I used a DE since my face was still healing from using a Dovo Shavette with a Personna blade (sharp!, sharp!, sharp!)

My problem, I believe, is a lack of experience with that type of soap and I have to get the water to soap ratio just right.

Thanks for your help!

Jim

Good advice... seems to be working better!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

Yes, that could be an issue. I would highly recommend sticking with one soap or cream exclusively for at least a week (depending on how often you shave) to get to know the soap well, learning the sweet spots and intricacies. Two weeks might actually be better, which is what I did when I was learning. Nowadays I still do a week until I feel I have it down pat. If you have more than one brush try to use only one as well (a top performer).

As well, it is possible to get a bad batch of soap every now and then, but if you're new I daresay it's not the soap...

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They say "Beware of the man with one gun!"

Jim