Wedges vs hollows

I have read that wedges should be stropped on a bench stron and hollows on a hanging - and wonder why?

I only use a hanging strop for all razors, and wedges do as well as hollows with it

Cheers
Ivo

I read this too - in one of those barber textbooks, though I forget which one.

It kept calling wedges "French wedges," a term I've never heard anywhere else.

I think there needs to be a distinction between a "true" wedge and various degrees of hollow grinds.

In my mind a "true" wedge has no or almost no grind so that almost the entire width of the blade comes into contact with the strop/stone, etc - the profile should be very close to trangular. I don't have any of these razors (except one that Jason is in the process of refinishing/rescaling - so I can't comment either way.

I do have several razors with heavy grinds - 1/4, 1/2 hollows, etc. I use a hanging strop with all of these razors with no problems whatsoever.

I'm not sure why a bench (or paddle) strop would be better or worse for a wedge than a hanging strop - but I think some people have commented that you should use different amounts of tension on your hanging strop with wedges (I realize that I'm just adding to the confusion here!).

No, Chris - you aren't adding confusion.

When I strop, I adjust my actions depending on feel and basically all razors feel and draw differently, so my pressure, angle of approach, tension of the strop, etc. differ.

If anything, I find wedges (true or less so) easier to handle on the strop - compared to the 5/8 hollows. It seems that the truer the wedge - the easier it is for me to feel it (as you say - because of the increased area of contact).

I was just wondering about the rationale for using a particular strop approach / method with a particular grind. Obviously, the bench strop would not give - and in my experience, I actually want varying degrees of give for that last edge prep.

Cheers
Ivo

I actually find I have to be most careful when stropping my full/extra hollow blades. Because there's less metal supporting the edge, its easier to roll the edge if there's not enough tension on the strop and/or you use too much pressure.

I think the wedges respond well if you use slightly less tension (we're talking degrees here - not a sagging strop) and are more resistant to a slightly heavier hand.

For example, the DD satinedge I bought from you is very thinly ground and I am careful to make sure there is a lot of tension on the strop and use very little pressure.

On the other hand, when I'm stropping a 1/2 or 1/4 hollow - I sometimes use a little less tension and sometimes use a bit of pressure early in the stropping process if the blade is a little on the dull side (but still cutting well - just not as well as when it came off the hone) and then gradually lighten up - this seems to help bring the blade back and let me go a little longer before having to refresh the blade on a pasted paddle or hone. I have done this with a full hollow, but I'm more careful about how much pressure I use.

In most cases, I keep the strop well tensioned but use less pressure depending on the thickness of the blade (again we're talking degrees of presser - I never really bear down). I don't think a bench or paddle would make a bit of difference if you're using good technique.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but why would a hanging strop be superior in any case. I agree a hanging strop does a great job, but you would think a hanging strop because it stretches, contorts, etc would be less
effective --making it more difficult to maintain proper contact with the blade --or is it the flexing and such that makes it effective? :shrug: Thanks,

Justin

A hanging strop is generally much bigger, allowing you to finish stropping and get to shaving more quickly.

For me the very slight sag of a hanging strop can make it easier to keep the blade in good contact with the leather. But I haven't used a paddle for an extended period of time, so I'm not sure if I would like it.

Josh

Chris:
totally agree I am more carefull and use more tension with the full hollows; this is why I said wedges seem easier to handle

Justin:
exactly for the reasons Chris and I discussed - you can vary the tension on a hanging strop. Sometimes, I feel I need less tension to really get the edge. For razors, which approach saber grind there is no other option, really. Bench / paddle simply would not work - period. Plus, it's more conveniend that using a beam :roflmao

Cheers
Ivo

The interesting thing is that "bench" strops as referred to in old manuals may be different than what we're thinking of.

I think the leather on a block - like what Tony makes is a recent innovation. Most of the old strops I see are really more of a paddle.

The interesting thing is that, while you do see some rigid paddles from the past, several have cutouts/slots (like the TI paddles) so there's supposedly some give to the paddle or are loom strops, which have properties in common with a hanging strop.

All this is to say that I really don't think it makes much of a difference if you use proper technique - there would likely be more on the subject on SRP if it did.

Good points, Chris.

As I said, I was just wondering about the rationale - why was this written in the first place (even with the paddle give, etc.)

Cheers
Ivo

I can't imagine why the hard surface strop would be recommended over a hanging strop for wedges. I know from using my paddle for travel that it requires a little more care. The benefit of the hanging strop is that the edge virtually never runs into an unmovable object since no matter how taut you pull the strop it will always sag slightly under pressure.

X

This whole "sag" issue is why I was wondering about some REALLY thick leather
in my "makin strops" post.

Not to hijack but wouldn't a really thick piece of leather, even if it did sag, roll an edge less ??

Just because it can't make the turn around the trailing edge at a sharp an angle.

Wouldn't a thick (like 3/8) hanging strop act more like a paddle due to increased rigidity??? :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

Wouldn't a thick (like 3/8) hanging strop act more like a paddle due to increased rigidity??? :shrug:

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I guess that's a matter of degrees. A;though it might be logical to assume that a thicker leather would act more like a paddle strop, it's probably truer to say that it acts less like a thinner leather strop. I know that Barbers tended to prefer the thickest, widest and longest (not to mention firmest) leather manageable.

X

I am playing with a vintage bear (black bear?) skin strop and it's just about 3/8 after years of use. It cost 12.50 at the time, which was ridiculously expensive, too.

I am thinking the thickness was to fight wear from use, stretching and deformations, mostly. Do not believe it gives any better edge.

Cheers
Ivo

Just to jump in here, I think like others have said all strops flex to a point. No matter how you hold a hanging strop there is flex to it and all the paddles I've seen have a design so that there is flex there also. I think if you did not have flex the hard unyielding surface would damage the edge when you strop. I don't think the thickness of the strop would bear on this (no pun intended) but a thicker strop is more durable, less inclined to deform and more luxurious.

The test here would be to glue a leather strop to a hardwood block and use it for stropping for awhile and see what happens. I'm sure Ivo wouldn't mind using his maestro for that experiement eh?

Isn't that exactly what a paddle strop is?
Did I miss something here?:shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm sure Ivo wouldn't mind using his maestro for that experiement eh?

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You are right, Duke! I wouldn't, too bad I don't actually have a Maestro yet... been thinking about it, now I am seriously considering a Robert Williams blade.

Cheers
Ivo