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I didn't want to raise an old post from the dead, but I thought CeOx really deserves a little more love 'round these parts...
I recently started using the high quality white "Super Cerium" on hard felt after CrOx. About 10-15 laps, and man it is a smooooooth shave. All my razors have gotten the treatment. If you go this route, just make sure it's the pure white kind; the beige/pinkish stuff is less pure and has a higher micron rating.
Same here, the 99.99% stuff rocks for smoothness, but it does NOT improve sharpness, much like some of the fine finishers the edge has to already be "there" to obtain the improvement..
Myself I have always felt that is why it isn't that popular, as it doesn't "improve" the edge it only "enhances" an already great edge..
Quote:
Originally Posted by funtown
Where did you end up getting your super cerium?
Yes, it's a little to soft for touch-ups, but it leaves one heck of a polish. I actually see a slight drop off in HHT performance after using CeOx (not that it matters), but once the blade is on your face, the difference is quite noticeable. I think I actually went "oooohh" when I took my first stroke after using it on my C-Mon Blackie last week. I didn't think the Blackie could get any smoother, but cerium proved otherwise.
I got this stuff. Pricey, but worth it IMHO. 2 ounces will last a lifetime +
Super Cerium Oxide Rock Glass Polish lapidary 2 Oz | eBay
Difference from CBN anybody? I have .1 micron cbn spray.
I can't compare to CBN, but I have used .1 FeOx. I think I will go from .5 CrOx to CeOx for now and skip the FeOx. CeOx feels better to my face.
Also, I think it will be hard to compare because CBN cuts and can be used for touch ups if I'm not mistaken. CeOx isn't really for touching up... it just squeezes some extra zing (comfort wise) out of an edge that is already beautifully honed.
Would really love to hear opinions on the comparison between FeOx and CeOx
Anybody else use both? Were there any noticeable differences that would make one a better choice than the other?
I just got some Ferrous Oxide in, but have not had time to play with it. I have been using Chrome Oxide for years with nylon with great results. I then use Cerium Oxide to polish the edge, then CBN .50, .125 and .10 for a super smooth and keen edge.
Cerium will remove all the stria from the bevel and you may lose a bit of keenness, CBN .50 & .125 returns whatever you lost. .10 is just for comfort.
20 laps on .125 will bring an edge back the minute it starts to flag. I strop daily on & shave straight off the .125 & .10 edge, no leather.
Before I started using CBN a couple of years ago, I shaved off a Cerium Ox strop for years.
Here are a couple of threads, http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...d-we-take.html and Part 2 that covered a lot of this ground.
Bottom line is all these paste are great stuff, but only work well on a well prepared edge and in progression, big jumps deliver weak results. What you are stropping on also plays a very big part especially at the Nano grit ranges.
Fun stuff, Great edges.
My supplier is Lapidary Supplies, Tools, Lapidary Equipment - Delta One Lapidary Supplies
Never had any trouble dealing with this company. They have other interesting stuff also.
Like Glen mentioned above, if your edge is not perfect, all the polishing dust in the world isn't going to do you any good.
Is it best to use these on hard felt? Where is that found? I'd like to try it out.
__________________________________Quote:
Originally Posted by rickboone
SRD might still sell felt.
Cerium is at the top of the heap in lapidary circles for polishing hard stones. Usually, it's used in a vibrating lap which is basically a tray with a felt pad and it sits on a motor that vibrates the tray. The felt is loaded with the Cerium and then saturated with water and then you start it and run it for days on end.
I am thinking why not use some compounds on a hone or maybe a like 8k dmt. Would the surface of say a very fine dmt be suitable for a layer of cbn, crox, cerium? Or any other hone, say a phig, as I don't think a phig would absorb much and could be lapped to get it clean again. Or how bout lapping a hone with a 120 dmt and using the compound to fill the scratch patterns and kind of supercharge the stone? Yes no maybe, anybody try it? If so did it work? Very light laps maybe? It would be like a j nat but with compound instead of stone dust. Or maybe a tomonagura with some cbn or other compound. I know cbn comes in different grits so a .1 micron might be too fine for a 12k hone, maybe a .5 micron. Anybody? Thanks.
There was a bit of experimentation done years back with CrOx, CBN and even Diamond pastes work on some of the hones..
IIRC working some stuff on the Spyderco UF bench hone.. Even some experimentation on polished marble with Nagura and the pastes to see if a hone was even needed
haven't heard much about it for quite some time..
I have experimented with paste and high grit stone without any great success. One of the problems I encountered is the limitation of the grit size of the hone.
The medium the paste is stropped on makes all the difference in results. With high grit micro pastes the hone grit is much courser than most paste, negating the paste and what you are using it for which is polishing, except possibly with very high grit friable stones in the hands of an experienced slurry builder.
In the end you are introducing more variables to the process, as it is we really can’t see exactly what is happening at the bevel and edge. It is better to hone the edge to the highest grit and finest finish, then paste to polish the edge on substrates that contain no grit, so you are using just the paste/spray to its full potential and control as many variables as possible.
I do not think a properly prepared bevel stropped on a grit free strop with a progression up to CBN .125 or .10 can be improved much for simplicity, keenness and comfort.
I can tell you from experience that .3 micron super cerium or .1 micron iron oxide slurries on a Spyderco UF with a very delicate amount of pressure won't do your edge any harm. The Spyderco UF should only be used for polishing.
Hi all,
It it available as a dispersion in 0.5 micron. This is primarily marketed at the electronic materials and optics folks so I dont know if this is available in the more general sense but it does exist. The other nicety about electronic/optical grade abrasives is that the particle size distribution is very, very good. That means when you order 0.5 micron you dont get any 2 micron boulders thrown in as a freebie:)
An inexpensive felt strop substitute can be had from Wally Mart or any craft store. They sell felt 1mm thick in 9X12 sheets, some with peel and stick backing. Plain sheets can be glued with spray adhesive or wood glue brushed to the substrate.
Cut into 3 inch strips, stick to a ¼ in MDF and paste and spray way. They usually cost about a buck each.
______________________________________-Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
I'm wondering if that type of felt is firm enough to hone on. I have some felt from SRD and two other sources and the surface is a bit firmer than the Wal-Mart stuff. If anyone has had success with the W-Mart felt, please post.
Well I tried some crox on my phig. The edge felt about the same so no benefit there. Cleaned and lapped it and applied .1 cbn spray. Same thing. I got a better result from using crox on linen after the phig. Not scientific but in line with whats been said before. My best edge out of it all was phig, then linen crox then cbn on hard wool.
Agreed. Like Glen said, a few years back some of us experimented with Crox, CBN and Diamond spray, primarily on Phig's or Chinese 12k's. Nothing really earth shattering. As mentioned these products excel on felt, leather, balsa and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by bill3152
I don't think I've tried Cerium, but have tried all the others mentioned. Is it really worth it? Will the results be much more noticable than CBN .160, or Crox or even Diamond. Now, I know Diamond can be harsh at the .25 level, The Cbn .160 was surprisingly smooth to me, as is crox.
TBH, I haven't use any of these in some time.
What do you mean to hone on?
I have stropped on it for years to experiment with, it works well just like hard felt, but not a good as Foam or Paper.
Quote:
I'm wondering if that type of felt is firm enough to hone on. I have some felt from SRD and two other sources and the surface is a bit firmer than the Wal-Mart stuff. If anyone has had success with the W-Mart felt, please post.
Just wondering what micron super cerium is and how it compares to .3micron alumina 'a' oxide?
The real difference is not in particle size but shape. Aluminium oxide is usually very cube shaped when viewed under an electron microscope. Cubic and uniform in shape is the best way to describe it. The corners will round off over time which will affect the cutting characteristics. With Al0x this rounding of the corners happens pretty quick by comparison to nearly all other abrasives.
Cerium oxide, by comparison, is platey and very thin. There are no real sharp corners to do any cutting so it has the habit of smearing the polishing surface rather than cutting it with sharp corners. This probably explains what others have said about CeOx not increasing the sharpness of their razors. Another point is that CeOx is very friable. It breaks down into smaller and smaller particles with use. Cerium oxide also has a peculiar action of polishing finer than the grit size suggests.
Here are some photos comparing Aluminium oxide and Cerium oxide. Look hard at the CeOx, it just doenst have any sharp corners to it.Attachment 138926Attachment 138927
Since this thread is slowing let me put a spark in it.
Have any of you tried Zirconium oxide?
Exotic stuff that is. I typically associate it with sapphire polishing but I know it is aimed at the metal polishing market too. Some of the bigger raw suppliers offer dispersions with particle size as small as 15 nanometers. Damn thats small. The product is not particularly pure, even in the electronic and optical grade product. This usually means that the source crystal that they mill the powder from will be polycrystalline, not single crystal. Single crystal source material always offers better shape characteristics and it will almost always last longer. Also, single crystal is usually not as friable as poly.
I have no personal experience with this product but I did take the time to go thru my suppliers technical data sheet before sending this reply.
Though poly won't last as long for some applications it's what you want. It will breakdown and become finer and finer as you use it.
Some guys experimented with liquid C.Oxide on Chinese 12k's, and Diamond spray on Spyderco's for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Alright my good duke you got me curious now. So where can I get this zirconium oxide? May as well get that as well as the crox and feox Im getting
How is this powder applied to a felt strop?
0.1 micron CBN:Quote:
Originally Posted by bill3152
Attachment 144404
"super" cerium oxide:
Attachment 144405
