Thumb Pad Test After Stropping

Oh No! Not this topic again!! Ha!

Well, I went to the barber shop today and talked with a barber I hadn't met before. He's an older gentleman who graduated from the Los Angeles Moler Barber School back in 1959. As some of you may know, A.B. Moler started the first American barber college in 1893.

I wanted his opinion on the thumb test.

"Is it across the blade, or along the blade?" I asked him. "No! Not across! Along the blade," he said, and demonstrated with his thumb on the back of his barbers comb. "Very lightly," he said as he sort of lightly bounced, or brushed, his thumb along the comb.

I tried it with the comb.

He instructed me to move my thumb slightly diagonally and forward as I made short, light strokes with my thumb along the comb from one end to the other just as he had.

I said, "Brushing your thumb across the blade is how you test a kitchen knife, not a razor, Is that correct?" The barber said, "Of course!"

So I tried this with a couple of my razors when I returned home. What was new to me was the diagonal component. I had always moved the thumb directly parallel to the blade.

The sensation is rather different with the diagonal emphasis. It will take some time for me to get used to it, and make use of the sensation.

Just thought I'd pass this along to the group. I know this test has been a source of debate and confusion for some. I am not submitting this to re-open any debate. I'm just adding another bit of information to the data base for all to use and figure out how best to perform the test.


Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

"Very lightly," he said as he sort of lightly bounced, or brushed, his thumb along the comb.

...

He instructed me to move my thumb slightly diagonally and forward as I made short, light strokes with my thumb

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This is kind of what I do, but I go much more against than along.

X

Scott:

I hate to ask this favor but for those of me who are visualization challenged (I couldn't visualize a straight line unless I saw it), would you mind either doing a short demo video or edit some pictures so I can picture this better. I think you know that I have wondered about this test since the barber manual seems to indicate a couple of different interpretations and I try to use this test to determine sharpness off the strop.

Sure Steve, I'll try something.

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Originally Posted by honedright

Sure Steve, I'll try something.

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Thanks Scott,

I realy owe you an apology. I was so intent on the information you were providing that I totally missed the part where you mentioned not wanting to open up for debate. Then here I go asking you do go more indepth, which could potentially open debate. I realized this about 10 minutes after I signed off in one of those delayed comphrension moments.

So, I'm sorry if I put you into the spot you didn't want to be.

No problem Steve...fuhgeddaboudit ;)

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Originally Posted by honedright

No problem Steve...fuhgeddaboudit ;)

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thank you Donny Brasco :o

Thats very cool Scott, good work!

Thumb and edge are at 90 degrees to each other?

Forward? I think I usually move backwards, wonder if it makes a difference?

How do you relate the difference between diagonal and across? My interpretation would be that diagonal would be 45 degrees across. In other words a mathematician would not emphasize that you don't go across, you go diagonal! That is technically inaccurate as diagonal IS across. See what I mean?

Do I not understand something?

Alan,

What the barber was doing is this: He was essentially moving, or pushing, his thumb along and parallel to the blade (or barber comb) with short, light strokes, but instead of pushing his thumb directly forward towards the razor point, he put a little diagonal "english" into the stroke. Hope that make sense. It was not a purely forward movement, but mostly forward.

I've always done the test similar to this, but without the diagonal "english."

Scott

Yes, that makes sense. I tried it this morning at it seems to do a good job of helping me feel the edge. The slight "english" part allows you to catch the edge. Neat!

Stop: Dummy time :)

"english"? You mean like spin you put on a pool ball?

What I'm reading sounds like this:

push thumb from heel to tip in short strokes (not one long heel-tip ride) and make like a spiral motion with the thumb say from left bottom of stroke to right top of stroke.


I can't draw it here but I'm thinking of the stripe on a barber pole or the spiral on a drill bit. Lower left to upper right.

Am I anywhere near the ballpark? What sensation should I be looking for, I'm thinking a grabbing sensation as if the edge sticks into the skin just enough to stop the spiral from happening.

First "english" and now "spirals"? It's getting outa hand, we may need the video after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matthew Groves

First "english" and now "spirals"? It's getting outa hand, we may need the video after all.

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Matthew - I'm not trying to complicate it but I don't understand certain terms.

I'm trying to see if "english" equates to a spiral or spinning motion. The only time I ever hear the word "english" in the context of putting it on something is referring to a type of spin on say a pool ball.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matthew Groves

First "english" and now "spirals"? It's getting outa hand, we may need the video after all.

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I'll go along with that, cause this thumb test thing has confused me from the start.

I have visions of running your thumb along the sharp edge of the blade and separating the said thumb from the rest oh the hand.

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Alan,

What the barber was doing is this: He was essentially moving, or pushing, his thumb along and parallel to the blade (or barber comb) with short, light strokes, but instead of pushing his thumb directly forward towards the razor point, he put a little diagonal "english" into the stroke. Hope that make sense. It was not a purely forward movement, but mostly forward.

I've always done the test similar to this, but without the diagonal "english."

Scott

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Maybe we are trying to be to technical here. I think what's going on is you are pushing your thumb forward but giving a little lateral pressure as to better feel the biting action of the razor. Man that sounds technical too.
:gth


Justin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

Maybe we are trying to be to technical here. I think what's going on is you are pushing your thumb forward but giving a little lateral pressure as to better feel the biting action of the razor. Man that sounds technical too.
:gth


Justin

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Yes, that's it. No spirals or spins.

Putting "english" into, or onto, something can have many meanings, or interpretations. In billiards it usually refers to some type of backspin or other variance from a straight, dead on, strike forward. So I understand the confusion.

But I think Justin got it correct in his quote above. It's a light forward motion of the thumb with just a "nudge" of lateral pressure. Now I hope the term "nudge" doesn't throw anybody off.

Or here is another way of visualizing it: imagine there is a light coating of dust on the very edge of your razor, and you are trying to lightly sweep it off with your thumb a little at a time, moving a little forward and to the side with each gentle sweep. The thumb moves in tiny increments along the edge.

Does that help? Or am I making it more confusing?

If it's still confusing, then just leave it alone. I'll make a demo video when I get a chance so you can see exactly what was shown to me by the barber.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Yes, that's it. No spirals or spins.

Putting "english" into, or onto, something can have many meanings, or interpretations. In billiards it usually refers to some type of backspin or other variance from a straight, dead on, strike forward. So I understand the confusion.

But I think Justin got it correct in his quote above. It's a light forward motion of the thumb with just a "nudge" of lateral pressure. Now I hope the term "nudge" doesn't throw anybody off.

Or here is another way of visualizing it: imagine there is a light coating of dust on the very edge of your razor, and you are trying to lightly sweep it off with your thumb a little at a time, moving a little forward and to the side with each sweep.

Does that help? Or am I making it more confusing?

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I think this is one of those things were "the truth suffers from too much analysis." I think over all the sensation we are looking for is one that is hard to define: here's my definition: a slight biting action that grabs the skin of your finger. Maybe it gives a certain feeling of uneasiness (shiver down your spine) as if to almost cut. But this is all subjective because I might have a different experience of sensation than another person. :shrug: So what's the best way to produce this sensation? Forward motion? maybe Lateral motion? maybe Hell, let's combine both - a forward motion with a slight lateral pressure. Sounds good to me --but why the thumb? :hmmm: ;)

Justin

Well, I was hoping to clarify, once again - ha!, an often confusing test for the straight razor. :fim:

Best advice, as said many times on SRP - best test is shaving. If the razor shaves fine, good. If not, go back to your honing and stropping.


Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Well, I was hoping to clarify, once again - ha!, an often confusing test for the straight razor. :fim:

Best advice, as said many times on SRP - best test is shaving. If the razor shaves fine, good. If not, go back to your honing and stropping.


Scott

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Roger That and Amen. Now I can sleep easy. Now back to that What's the meaning of life? question. Later, Scott

Justin

Yeah Justin, later http://smileys.on-my-web.com/reposit...prised-027.gif

Sorry gang I'll stay quiet :ziplip:

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Originally Posted by steve

Sorry gang I'll stay quiet :ziplip:

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No, Steve. I'm just saying I'm satisfied for now. Keep on keeping on.:)


Justin

P.S. And I emphasize satisfied for now.

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

No, Steve. I'm just saying I'm satisfied for now. Keep on keeping on.:)


Justin

P.S. And I emphasize satisfied for now.

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Yeah, that wasn't it though. No worries

Hi everyone

the way i see it this. The input of slight lateral motion WHILST running the thumb pad along the edge of the blade (heel to nose) allows the edge to bite, and not slip at all from it's line of travel.

You could run a blunt blade in a dead straight line along the thumb pad and it may feel perfectly smooth, but the minute you added that lateral input, it would slide laterally. It's the bite we like!

How about this:

Imagine an ice skate with a blade that isn't sharp, rounded even, just to exagerate.

Now your friend pushes you dead straight. You cruise nicely, with a smooth sensation. Now you try to add a turn. NO SHARP EDGE = NO GRIP IN ICE = BRUISING TO FACE.

Now do this again. But with SHARP BLADES. As soon as you add a turn to your direction (the slight lateral input on the razor edge) , the blade can bite into the ice, no bruising, lovely.

I'll be awaiting my physics degree certificate in the post anytime.

pea

by the way this could be completely wrong, i don't want to sound like i'm preaching to you guys, and anyways, by the time i figured out my way of explaining it, you guys will have moved on to bigger better things!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pea

NO SHARP EDGE = NO GRIP IN ICE = BRUISING TO FACE.

pea

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PMSL! I like the analogy Pea B.Sc. (Hons)! I can actually get a biting sensation now!

I have to say that this test really helped me refine my edge. I went to honing after first reading this post. After every pyramid I would do this test, and it really helped to figure out what worked and what didn't. I could easily feel when I had developed a wire edge and knew when to go back to remove it. Very great test and easy to use.

Matt