Under Stropping

I'm still consider myself a newbie to SR shaving but I am still trying to better my shaving and sharpening techniques. A little while back, I was re-watching Lynn's video on honing and finally noticed that when he finished with the hones he said do the usual fifty strokes on the leather strop. Then it sank in, he said FIFTY. I had been doing only ten or twelve strokes before shaving and getting just OK shaves. Next shave, I hit the fifty strokes on my old Illinois 992 and what a difference in closeness and comfort it made. So, two days later, I tried it again with a different razor. Bingo! Close and comfortable with no razor burn after. Just goes to show, one has to pay close attention to all aspects of shaving with SRs.

Stropping is the holey grail!!

Welcome to s.m.o.o.t.h. :)

It's funny you mentioned this. This morning I went down to shave (and just as an aside, in relation to another thread, I completely shaved off all my facial hair) and was halfway through the first stroke on my cheek when I realised the razor was not shaving very well. Then I realised I had forgotten to strop! :eek:

After a quick strop all was well again. Stropping is way important!! :)

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

It's funny you mentioned this. This morning I went down to shave (and just as an aside, in relation to another thread, I completely shaved off all my facial hair) and was halfway through the first stroke on my cheek when I realised the razor was not shaving very well. Then I realised I had forgotten to strop! :eek:

After a quick strop all was well again. Stropping is way important!! :)

James.

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--- sorry but I have to digress ---

James you did it! You really did it!!

Welcome to s.m.o.o.t.h. :)

Yes, stropping is vital...I strop 20x linen 60 leather, before a shave and same after.

Under stropping is easy. Over stropping is impossible :<0)

I always do 100 strokes on English Bridle. I'd do more, but I can't count any higher than that.

Most people find about 30 to be the minimum. I think you can do less, depending on the blade. Everybody has a different strop too. We also have to be careful about applying generic rules too globally. But, above all else, never accept a lower quality shave. If a straight razor isn't shaving smoother than a DE, you're still learning.

I'm a huge stropping advocate 45 passes on my Lipshaw Microtome diamond rubber side, 100+ passes on leather side.

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Originally Posted by Tarkus

I'm a huge stropping advocate 45 passes on my Lipshaw Microtome diamond rubber side, 100+ passes on leather side.

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AHA! You are up from 40/80 and never told me! Unfair! :p

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

AHA! You are up from 40/80 and never told me! Unfair! :p

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Thats why your smooth, but I'm SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH.......
:rofl2:

It sounds a little like stropping on rubber embedded with diamonds occupies a space between stropping and honing?

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Originally Posted by Tarkus

I'm a huge stropping advocate 45 passes on my Lipshaw Microtome diamond rubber side, 100+ passes on leather side.

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Originally Posted by WW243

It sounds a little like stropping on rubber embedded with diamonds occupies a space between stropping and honing? with

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No diamonds in it! :D
Just diamond patterned material!

Wonder if that would work with the ring thing? Honey, I just got you a new diamond ring....well no, it isn't sparkly, it's rubber diamonds.....I had a budget to work with......;)

I was trying to recall back in the day waiting for my haircut as a kid and watching the barbers shave customers how many strokes they did on the strop. It was so fast it was hard to tell but probably 15 complete passes before every customer including when they used a straight to trim my sideburns and the back of my head.

Helps explain the success of the double edge razor.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I was trying to recall back in the day waiting for my haircut as a kid and watching the barbers shave customers how many strokes they did on the strop. It was so fast it was hard to tell but probably 15 complete passes before every customer including when they used a straight to trim my sideburns and the back of my head.

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I find 30-40 on leather works for me, a few more for my wedges.

40 Linen 100 Leather....gets easier all the time: most important tip from the Philly guy for me....relax your hand...light pressure

Even if i stropped 40/80 to finish a razor after honing, if it has "rested" more than a few hours (without oiling), then i'm always going to give it 20/40 just to clear the edge of oxidation, before shaving. I'm more of a 20/40 after and 40/80 before guy.

But those are rounded numbers. I like "44" and "84" and sometimes "66" as i can attach sentimental values to those numbers...oh how the mind wanders.

I pretty much stick to 30 linen/60 leather... always seems to work out well.

Sometimes, though, if I'm just into it, I'll just keep going after the 60 on leather, not counting at all. That, my friends, is always a nice shave.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

It's funny you mentioned this. This morning I went down to shave (and just as an aside, in relation to another thread, I completely shaved off all my facial hair) and was halfway through the first stroke on my cheek when I realised the razor was not shaving very well. Then I realised I had forgotten to strop! :eek:

After a quick strop all was well again. Stropping is way important!! :)

James.

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James, ME TOO!!!

Yup this was THE learning curve for me. I came into straight shaving completely confident in my honing ability and sure enough that did not let me down. But it was the stropping that refines the edge that eluded me a bit. Looking at it under a magnifying lense made for high end optical system (I've no clue what but its great) I noticed as the 12k striations vanished the shave produced progressively less razor burn. Once they were no longer visible I got no more razor burn. Then came the leather,I can't see anything that small even under the glass but what I know is my razors go from a bit of tug to really fine stubble squeegee still with no razor burn. So the 50 pass minimum is warranted.

Yes I'm now one of the Seekers of the Perfect Edge cult.

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Originally Posted by Dragonfire

Yup this was THE learning curve for me. I came into straight shaving completely confident in my honing ability and sure enough that did not let me down. But it was the stropping that refines the edge that eluded me a bit. Looking at it under a magnifying lense made for high end optical system (I've no clue what but its great) I noticed as the 12k striations vanished the shave produced progressively less razor burn. Once they were no longer visible I got no more razor burn. Then came the leather,I can't see anything that small even under the glass but what I know is my razors go from a bit of tug to really fine stubble squeegee still with no razor burn. So the 50 pass minimum is warranted.

Yes I'm now one of the Seekers of the Perfect Edge cult.

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Agreed.

If anything in my short experience I would share would be that the fundamentals are the most important. Stropping, proper care of the blade, brush, and proper technique in shaving and stropping. In my opinion, this should be the only thing a beginner should focus on for at least 3 months...in regards to stropping, I had to learn the hard way, and go back to basics in stropping after I was told I rolled the edges on several of my blades, and once that happens, your shaves will only be frustrating, and you'll keep going back to wondering why it shaves great for a shave or two when you get it back from being honed, and then it bites the dust again.

Also, investing in a loupe is a good thing to inspect your edges, seeing the actual edge can reveal much.

The loupe is on my list. RAD > other items. I've ruined a few good honed edges while learning along with a nice strip of leather. It was totally fish scaled,good advice for the upstart would be buying a spare strop.

I only shave 2-3 times a week, but I'm constantly stropping my blade whenever the notion takes me. So by the time I decide to shave, it has a few hundred strokes on the strop. It may be overkill, but the shaves are great.

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Originally Posted by Wayne1963

I only shave 2-3 times a week, but I'm constantly stropping my blade whenever the notion takes me. So by the time I decide to shave, it has a few hundred strokes on the strop. It may be overkill, but the shaves are great.

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Yes, I do the same, if I'm heading to my bathroom, quite frequently I'll grab a blade I think I may use for the next shave and give it a stropping. By the time I go down to actually shave, I've got two or three already to go. Of course, then I may decide to use a completely different blade and then strop that one up to. But as they say, you can't over strop a blade.

Cheers!

I don't shave but 3 times a week. I strop after a shave and before. Some days, I run through 3 or 4 upcoming ones as well.
I can actually grab one at any time and shave, if in a hurry, doing this. If I have the time, though, I strop before shaving anyway!
"strop long and prosper'! :tu

Hi. Kyguns good to see another Kentucky fellow joining in. I don't know much but willing to help if I can. Hi.

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Originally Posted by Dragonfire

Yup this was THE learning curve for me. I came into straight shaving completely confident in my honing ability and sure enough that did not let me down. But it was the stropping that refines the edge that eluded me a bit. Looking at it under a magnifying lense made for high end optical system (I've no clue what but its great) I noticed as the 12k striations vanished the shave produced progressively less razor burn. Once they were no longer visible I got no more razor burn. Then came the leather,I can't see anything that small even under the glass but what I know is my razors go from a bit of tug to really fine stubble squeegee still with no razor burn. So the 50 pass minimum is warranted.

Yes I'm now one of the Seekers of the Perfect Edge cult.

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These two pictures may be the most dramatic and useful for me and hopefully for the novice straight razor user. These photos are after stropping on clean leather right off the JNAT. Normally, I would go to the .5 micron diamond treated wool linen and then follow with leather.

I wanted to leave the JNAT edge alone and go right to leather for this session to see the difference between a JNAT and a Naniwa 12K finish.

Picture one is after 50 passes on clean black Latigo leather:

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/...psc61d8218.jpg

And now for me, the most dramatic change of the evening is the very last picture. This is after an additional 50 passes on clean black Latigo leather for a total of 100 passes:

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/...ps50f72efb.jpg

I believe that these last two photos prove what many here already know. Stropping is extremely important to the edge and should never be neglected, rushed or otherwise conducted haphazardly. That last photo gives me a very good feeling of where I have this edge now tonight. If this razor isn't shaving better tomorrow night, I really won't know what to say.

Frank

Gentlemen,

My routine comprises of 50 strokes on linen/canvas/felt and 150 on leather. On the Kanayama/Kanoyama strops, I do 25 strokes on linen, 25 on felt and 150 on the smooth leather.

One reason for the relatively big numbers is limiting my strokes to only about 7 inches on the strop rather than most of the length — one reason I dislike long strops. This also helps smoother manipulation of the thumb and index finger while the wrist remains almost immobile.

So that the almost entire length of the strop is used — I don't want to wear out just one part of it — in the course of the week, I strop in different parts of the strop.

To compensate for the short stropping length, I add more strokes to my routine, as I noted. Which is an excuse, really, to do more strokes, because I love stropping — it puts me in a sweet state of zen. If I had the time, I would probably strop an hour before shaving. I figure, as long as I strop correctly, I'm okay. Also, proper stropping reduces the frequency of honing.

Routine shaving for me requires 30/50 linen leather.

Obie, with that many strokes, is there a point when you can almost "feel" that things are lined up correctly and ready to go? I was generally doing 30/60 linen/leather, but often would keep going on the leather because is was relaxing. I often find that at around 75 - 80 strokes, it feels like there is less draw, or the strokes seem smoother. I haven't known whether this was my imagination, whether I was just "in the groove" and in a good rhythm with my strokes, or whether I was actually feeling the razor's edge becoming ready for a smooth shave.

I do think you can sometimes feel when the edge is ready on a strop. Not having tried all strops out there, I wouldn't like to say that is the case on all strops since clearly how an edge feels on a strop will depend on the strop (among other things I suppose).

James.

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Originally Posted by evnpar

Obie, with that many strokes, is there a point when you can almost "feel" that things are lined up correctly and ready to go? I was generally doing 30/60 linen/leather, but often would keep going on the leather because is was relaxing. I often find that at around 75 - 80 strokes, it feels like there is less draw, or the strokes seem smoother. I haven't known whether this was my imagination, whether I was just "in the groove" and in a good rhythm with my strokes, or whether I was actually feeling the razor's edge becoming ready for a smooth shave.

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Richard,

Many elements of the straight razor world are intuitive, including stropping. Yes, of course, at some point, say a 30/60 ratio which I still do from to time, you know the razor's edge is reconstructed as well a possible. Perhaps it is in the sound, or the feel, in something that says you're ready to go. Yet, I keep going on the leather, 100 strokes, 120, or more sometimes because of the state of zen engulfing me completely. And I keep going and going, knowing that as long I strop correctly, my razor's edge will give me a sweet smooch.

I enjoy stropping that much. On top of everything else, I also add 20 strokes on the palm of my hand. I have no idea if that is technically beneficial, but spiritually, it does wonders.

Because of the arthritis in my hands, I prefer strops with light to moderate draw. The heavy draw in, say, Latigo and some other kinds of leather finishes, hurt my hand, especially at the high stropping ratios. Shell cordovan and similar leather, therefore, suit me better. Some produce a more delicious stropping sound than others, depending in part on the thickness of the strop, in my experience, and because of my love for music, I refer to them as musical strops.

The Kanayama, for instance, because of its thickness, is less musical than the much thinner and pliable Neil Miller cordovan, or the oil tanned horsehide Torolf. What's more, I like the feel of the Neil Miller and the Torolf more than I do the Kanayama because of the way the leather hugs the blade — it's a love affair.

Right you are, Richard, it is getting "in the groove."

I recently had a custom I made and honed up, all excited for the first test run and then it happened... I wasn't very impressed by the shave I got. I randomly came upon this thread and it hit me, I had not stropped it thoroughly. So I went back to the strop couple days later and another run, beautiful results!

It's funny to me how sometimes we forget the basics, but as always you fine gents here have reminded me of this and we continue on this journey!

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Originally Posted by WadePatton

Even if i stropped 40/80 to finish a razor after honing, if it has "rested" more than a few hours (without oiling), then i'm always going to give it 20/40 just to clear the edge of oxidation, before shaving. I'm more of a 20/40 after and 40/80 before guy.

But those are rounded numbers. I like "44" and "84" and sometimes "66" as i can attach sentimental values to those numbers...oh how the mind wanders.

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I may be on the edge of OCD, but I like to do multiples...20 linen or rough leather; 80 latigo or English Bridle; 22-88; 25-100.

You get the drift. I wind up in an institution, can I still be a forum member?

40 linen 100 leather...every time ...why cheat yourself !!!!

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Originally Posted by Haroldg48

I may be on the edge of OCD, but I like to do multiples...20 linen or rough leather; 80 latigo or English Bridle; 22-88; 25-100.

You get the drift. I wind up in an institution, can I still be a forum member?

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Ha! I use Fibonacci numbers 34 hemp / 55 leather.