My stropping and the results. Comments appreciated

I haven't been able to get the best results from doing 50 or more passes on a leather strop. It's like I am not effecting the edge enough to make much difference in the shave. But if I use the webbing strop with .25 micron diamond spray on it (10 passes) and then do 20 to 30 passes on the leather that seems to work better. I've been at this for about a year. As time goes on I'm getting better results but it's slow going. When I shave now there is a more consistency in how my razor feels. Six months ago (and before that) one shave may be nice like I had a sharp razor and another would feel like the razor wasn't as sharp. More tugging on the whiskers.

For now I get the best results by using both strops between every shave. From most experienced shavers I'm doing what they do every 10 or 20 shaves. It's referred to as refurbishing the razor's edge. No stones. Just using a coarser grit strop than the bare leather and then the bare leather. I may try to shave once after just using the webbing strop and not use the leather one. From what I've read the razor should be sharp enough after the webbing but the leather add a burnishing or smoothing effect to the edge. Could be wrong.

My shaves are getting better and more consistent. I suppose I have to give credit to improvement in several aspects of shaving. Honing, stropping, technique, etc. all play a part. Also, getting a better lather, pre-shaves and all that stuff. My nicks are very infrequent now but when I do cut myself it's usually a pretty good one. And it's always from a lack of concentration, normally when I first put the razor to skin. And usually on my chin or jawbone.

If you are using much downward pressure on the razor as you strop you are doing a disservice to the razor's edge. Under normal circumstances your stropping motion should be should be light as a feather with the edge, while the spine is in constant contact with the strop, acting like a plane taking off and landing. You should hear almost nothing from the strop as you lap. Linen, or felt, or web material first, followed by leather by 'x' number of laps (it will vary based on feel for the strop, emotional state and level of OCD). Crox and diamond spray refreshing is usually after 15 or so shaves and to the barber's hone or 12k or higher stone after maybe 30 shaves. That is, if you have a "normal" beard. More or less depending on beard density, etc.

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Originally Posted by Razorfeld

If you are using much downward pressure on the razor as you strop you are doing a disservice to the razor's edge. Under normal circumstances your stropping motion should be should be light as a feather with the edge, while the spine is in constant contact with the strop, acting like a plane taking off and landing. You should hear almost nothing from the strop as you lap. Linen, or felt, or web material first, followed by leather by 'x' number of laps (it will vary based on feel for the strop, emotional state and level of OCD). Crox and diamond spray refreshing is usually after 15 or so shaves and to the barber's hone or 12k or higher stone after maybe 30 shaves. That is, if you have a "normal" beard. More or less depending on beard density, etc.

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I believe 100% any issue with my stropping has to do with pressure and technique. It takes time to develop the ability to strop with very light pressure. I can feel the lightness improving but I still have a ways to go. When I have the technique down better I'm hoping to get the results others talk about. I understand that honing razors is not the same as sharpening knives but one thing that is the same is the light amount of pressure needed for the best results. The thing that makes razors different is the fact that we use the spine to control the angle. Therefore I'm having to learn how to use less pressure on the edge while the spine is also on the strop. That makes the technique needed completely different from sharpening knives. It took me 3 years or more to develop the ability to use ULTRA-LIGHT pressure on a knife edge. Stands to reason learning this with razors won't happen over night. I'm fairly certain I'll see a big difference in another year. Hope so anyway. :)

If you have the Shapton 16K you should have not problem touching up your razors. Less downward pressure on the blade when stropping. More shaves under your belt. Are your edges passing the HHT when you complete stropping?

Really shouldn't take another year to see results. I started with basically the same problem since I have a heavy hand in most things. I did the butter knife exercise on and off wen ever I had a free minute, concentrating and imaging the plane landing and taking off and thinking feather light. Didn't Ali, the boxer say something about float like a feather and sting like a bee. Use the floating part. Took me a month and I saw results.

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Originally Posted by Razorfeld

Really shouldn't take another year to see results. I started with basically the same problem since I have a heavy hand in most things. I did the butter knife exercise on and off wen ever I had a free minute, concentrating and imaging the plane landing and taking off and thinking feather light. Didn't Ali, the boxer say something about float like a feather and sting like a bee. Use the floating part. Took me a month and I saw results.

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Float Like a butterfly, sting like a bee

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Float Like a butterfly, sting like a bee

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Thanks pix, I should buy a book of quotes as a reference tool. I can never remember them exactly (except my ex's, those were simple, always the same one, "It's your fault".)

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Originally Posted by feltspanky

If you have the Shapton 16K you should have not problem touching up your razors. Less downward pressure on the blade when stropping. More shaves under your belt. Are your edges passing the HHT when you complete stropping?

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I was thinking the same thing about having the stones (and strops) for anyone who is skilled to do a great job on any razor. Now I need the skilled part. :) That will just take time and practice. I have two razors, both inexpensive and both have given me great shaves. Of course this is based on my experience of shave quality. I bought my second razor and it came shave ready as claimed by the owner of the site I bought it from. At the time it's shave was much better than the other razor I ad been honing. So, I felt like I knew what a "shave ready" razor felt like compared to the edges I was getting. This gave me a goal to reach. This was 10-12 months ago. Now I think I need to send a razor to Lynn or someone to hone so I can get a shave from what is considered shave ready by people who know. Or, and my preferred option is just to buy a new razor that Lynn or someone hones prior to shipping. I believe SRD does this. That would give me a new toy (:)) and a shave ready razor to compare my honed/stropped razors to.

My two razors do pass the HHT (Hanging Hair Test). In fact I was obsessed with this test for about a month. After a shower I cut off a bunch of my hair. I had read quite a bit about the HHT a year or more ago and was planning on using it to test my knife edges. I read about which direction to cut the hair in based on the "scales" on the hair. I picture them just like the scales on a fish and scaling them. The best I could get on my knife edges was to get the hair to vibrate which is "almost" passing based on what I read. Anyway, with my supply of clean hair I started testing the edge while and after honing and stropping. According to what I had read no two people will always get the same results using this test because of different hair, how clean the hair is or other factors. You just have to do the test several times to get an idea of your results based a lot on the hair. So, you need to always use the same hair source. It's too late to make a long story short but after I was getting the same results consistently I stopped using the HHT. I posted a few times about this and everyone was telling me while the HHT is somewhat useful it's worth very little compared to "testing" the edge by shaving. This has turned out to be absolutely true. However, I recommend anyone learning to hone and strop use the HHT because there is really no other test I know of to judge the condition of the edge until you shave. While not an all inclusive test it is worthwhile (for a while). After using it for a while and shaving also you can soon stop using the HHT. I've seen lots of videos of people tree-topping the hair on their arms as the final test. If you can do that the razor IS shave ready. You are cutting hair above the skin. If the razor will do that it should easily cut the whiskers at skin level. The hair on my arms is very thin and flexible. While I got to the point I could consistently pop hairs with the HHT I still can't consistently pass the tree-topping test on my arms. So while these two tests are extremely valuable I'll echo the comments from the more experienced that the shave is really the only test that really matters. But during the learning process of honing/stropping I suggest newbies (like me) perform these tests. I learned a lot with the tests about the condition of the edges I was honing while honing and/or stropping. I also believe I knew when the HHT became redundant. I think my edges now are shave ready as you have after a few shaves with a razor after a bunch of shaves with a razor that was honed/stropped well by a very skilled person and then stropped between shaves by a skilled stropper. This leads me to believe my ability is improving but not there yet. And I believe I'll get better with time. I just tend to be impatient. Ten months ago I got the razor edge close enough to shave with but with a bit of tugging on the whiskers. This was after I used stones and strop. The shave ready razor I bought didn't tug at all. My problem between shaves was I think I was doing damage to the edge when stropping between shaves. If I used the stones again and then stropped a little the edge was much better (again). Now my stropping between shaves seems to have improved to the point I don't need stones any more but I still require a little coarser tool than just the leather strop. This tool is the webbing strop. I'm assuming with more time and experience I can eliminate the webbing strop between shaves and still get the results (or better) than I'm getting now when using the webbing and leather in the same sitting.

I'd like to make a suggestion to newbies at honing and stropping. Use any test you can on the razor's edge while learning. While the HHT is only somewhat useful at least it's something. Tree-topping hairs seems to me to be a more accurate test. One thing about this test is you are cutting the arm hair in the wrong direction. To result in the hair being cut you need to cut toward the root of the hair. When tree-topping arm hair you are cutting in the opposite direction making it harder for the edge to cut the hair. This means when tree-topping hair successfully the edge is sharper than when you can cut it with the HHT cutting in the correct (easier to cut) direction. While these are not evaluation methods as good as shaving I learned a lot. Any learning is good. I was told several times not to put too much stock in the results of the HHT. While I understand this advice and it is true, during the earlier stages of learning the HHT served me well. You can see "steps" in sharpness level as you hone and strop the razor. Example: After I hone finishing with the 16k maybe I could pass the HHT. Then after stropping, the edge will no longer pass the test. This tells me I have a negative impact on the edge by my stropping. So, I'm honing pretty good but my stropping needs work. Using the tests you find out more about where a problem is in your process. This is useful compared to just honing and stropping and then shaving. If you hone then strop then shave and you are shaving with a dull edge you don't know where the problem is in your efforts. Once you are a skilled honer and stropper you no longer need the tests. My opinion of the usefulness of the HHT is mine at the moment. At the moment I'm a newbie and in a couple of years I may be skilled enough that I recommend newbies not use or worry about the HHT. However at the moment I find using the tests to be a useful learning tool. I could be wrong. My belief may change in the time to come.

If anyone took time to read all this I hope it made sense. Also, I hope you take what I've said as is, coming from someone with extremely limited experience. It's just how I feel now about this learning I'm going through. EVERY SINGLE TIME I've learned to do something new in my life I've developed opinions that in time I find out are wrong. Sometime my opinions seem ridiculous after I'm learned more. It's probably the same now, learning to maintain a razor's edge.

There are basically 3 stages of stropping that everyone goes through

1. Trying to do no harm
2. Doing no harm
3. Doing the edge some good

Everyone has to do that progression, we all have gone through it at one point in time..

Myself I was taught way back in the Dark Ages (Pre-Internet) to use the linen and to use it quite effectively, I find it to keep my edges in shape for stupid amounts of time doing 20 ish on linen and then 40ish on Leather before every shave.. Once you get to stage #3 many things that were plaguing the comfort of your shave, will be of zero consequence...

My suggestion would be to use your strop on a bench like a bench strop. If you can hone with very little pressure that might help you to strop with very little pressure too. Worth a shot anyhow. Good luck

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There are basically 3 stages of stropping that everyone goes through

1. Trying to do no harm
2. Doing no harm
3. Doing the edge some good

Everyone has to do that progression, we all have gone through it at one point in time..

Myself I was taught way back in the Dark Ages (Pre-Internet) to use the linen and to use it quite effectively, I find it to keep my edges in shape for stupid amounts of time doing 20 ish on linen and then 40ish on Leather before every shave.. Once you get to stage #3 many things that were plaguing the comfort of your shave, will be of zero consequence...

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I think I'm in stage 2 as long as I'm focusing on what I'm doing. A split second of drifting and I'll damage an edge just enough to make it not shave well.

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Originally Posted by eddy79

My suggestion would be to use your strop on a bench like a bench strop. If you can hone with very little pressure that might help you to strop with very little pressure too. Worth a shot anyhow. Good luck

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I tried my bench strops after trying a hanging strop for a week or so. The hanging strop was so awkward I figured I'd go back to something I was familiar with. Bench strops. I have different types for sharpening knives. Balsa wood, leather of different densities and also a couple of kangaroo strops. Roo leather is great, but expensive. Kangaroo puts a REAL smooth edge on a knife. I'm very very good at sharpening knives so I thought the bench strops might be better for me and several people I saw here were using them. Still, I was so new to razors I still was extremely uncoordinated and still getting poor results. IMO, if any razor honer has never learned to sharpen knives beyond just getting the edge capable of opening a cardboard box they won't understand the difference. There's a huge difference in becoming proficient when keeping only the edge on the stone or strop (knives). Keeping the spine and edge both (razors) on the surface has a completely different feel to it. Getting used to that is still giving me a hard time. My hand instinctively wants to raise the spine off the surface. Everyone says "don't think about sharpening knives when learning to hone razors". That's good advice but it's hard to do. Hard for me anyway. Raising the spine of a razor will do two bad things that I know of. It will raise the angle too high for one. It will also increase the amount of pressure on the edge. This combination will roll the edge apex, creating a burr. This happens with knives also but a razor's edge is far more delicate than most knife edges. IMO that means even the tiniest mistake has far worse impact on a razor's edge. Anyway, I decided neither type strop (hanging or bench) is better, just different. So I decided to learn to use a hanging strop. Too many people are getting great results with hanging strops for me to question their worth. For me to bounce back and forth between two different tools will result in me learning slower I think. Once I'm more comfortable with the hanging strop I may try the bench strops again. For now I'll keep things as simple as I can. I'm beginning to see improvement using Shapton glass stones and a Rich Man's Strop from whippeddog.com. I did buy a linen strop to replace the webbing strop on my strop because of all the good reviews these get. I had gotten somewhat used to the webbing strop and the linen strop felt terrible to me. Why did a strop that almost everyone loves feel so bad to me? It's because I'm not skilled enough to use the thing. I was getting used to the webbing and now trying something completely different. Big mistake for a newbie I think. I don't think I'm skilled enough to use one type of strop (or stone) and I'd be doing my self a disservice by trying different things. I believe I have the proper tools. I also believe I don't have the proper skill. I think my skill will improve faster if I keep the type of tools I use to a minimum.

Keeping it simple is the best way to go. Keep using the same thing and you can learn to get the best out of it. Constantly changing means constantly learning and that takes longer. Good luck