Stropping, huh, what is it good for?

Like the Edwin Starr's song WAR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dKAX7Jp8wo), I was wondering what the benefit of stopping with linen, webbing, leather, and CR-OX. I've been blinding following a regiment and hadn't really checked to see what the benefits were of my steps. Well, I have a USB microscope, so I wanted to look and see what happens with the different tools I'm using.

Including pictures here for your reading pleasure and discussion.

Razor: J.A. Henckels that I had just honed and gone through about 10 shaves or so. I typically shave, do 25 strokes on linen, and 75 strokes on leather (again just based on what I hear, and think I ought to do). I would, after many shaves and when I thought it was tugging a bit, do 5-10 strokes on a Cr-Ox coated webbed strop, before the linen and leather stropping.

Strops: I have a SRD 3" strop with leather and white linen(?) cloth. I have an older SRD 2.5" black latigo leather strop with a synthetic? webbed strop where on one side I have Cr-Ox paste in X patterns (maybe 4 Xs) and the other side I have a thin coating of Cr-Ox on the entire surface of the strop.

Goals: I wanted to see, what, if anything the Cr-Ox pasted strops did. Likewise, I was wondering about the difference between the linen and leather, and whether I doing less or more stropping mattered.

This is all empirical results, with the strops that I have, blade I'm using for this, and (obviously) my skill at stropping. YMMV.

So... here is a sample pair of photos of the middle of the edge, using my USB microscope, set for the highest magnification (maybe 200x). In latter shots, I tried to take all the pictures in the same area (I had a mark in the hollow to get me roughly in the same area).

STEP 0: Post shave, blotted with a towel (baseline):

Attachment 226217Attachment 226218

STEP 1: Using X patterned Cr-Ox on webbed strop - 5 X strokes. With that, I see this:

Attachment 226219Attachment 226220

Comment: I was surprised at the intensity of the effect of the Cr-Ox.


STEP 2: 50 strokes on 3" leather. The results are:

Attachment 226211Attachment 226212


STEP 3: Another 50 strokes on leather (to see what happens):

Attachment 226213Attachment 226214

So that's what happens, in my scenario. In the next post, I'll try the linen...

(Ignore the attached posts. I redid attaching files and can't seem to get rid of the duplicates.)

Now, with what I have in step 3, I did the following...

STEP 4: 10 X strokes on the Cr-Ox coated webbed strop:

Attachment 226221

I only had one shot :(


STEP 5: 25 strokes on the 3" linen (cloth) strop
Attachment 226222Attachment 226223

Comment: Really surprised at how much this cleaned up the edge.


STEP 6: Try another 25 strokes on linen to see if any difference:
Attachment 226224Attachment 226225


STEP 7: 50 strokes on 3" leather:
Attachment 226227Attachment 226228

STEP 8: Another 50 strokes on leather (just to be anal :)):
Attachment 226229Attachment 226230

There you have it! I hope this proves useful for discussion. The results were interesting to me.

This was very helpful. Thank you.

So - in short
More laps on the strop is better than fewer laps - with correct form.
CrOx improves the edge.
Linen is better than webbing (with or without CrOx).

Is that right? I do strop my razors on a CrOx pasted jute strop and it works awesome, but I only do it as a touch up when stopping on the leather doesn't seem to be doing as good a job. When CrOx doesn't get it, I go to the Swaty barber hone. After that, it's in for proper honing.

I used to strop freshly honed razors on the CrOx strop, but stopped after reading a few things on this forum. Now it's just touch ups.

Sandycrack

Have you ever seen this: https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-stropping-do/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandycrack

This was very helpful. Thank you.

So - in short
More laps on the strop is better than fewer laps - with correct form.
CrOx improves the edge.
Linen is better than webbing (with or without CrOx).

Is that right? I do strop my razors on a CrOx pasted jute strop and it works awesome, but I only do it as a touch up when stopping on the leather doesn't seem to be doing as good a job. When CrOx doesn't get it, I go to the Swaty barber hone. After that, it's in for proper honing.

I used to strop freshly honed razors on the CrOx strop, but stopped after reading a few things on this forum. Now it's just touch ups.

Sandycrack

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Well, the photos can be interpreted lots of ways I suspect. I'll be interested in hearing what people think.

I didn't have microchip ping or problems, so I'm not sure if the Cr-Ox would help there, but it clearly did make some stria on the edge.

Doing more on linen or leather, improved a small amount, but not much, AFAICT.

Seemed like the linen was a faster way to polish the edge, than the leather.

The lightly and heavily coated Cr-Ox seemed to perform the same (I only did 5 on one, and 10 on the other, so will have to recheck at some point).

I didn't have linen with Cr-Ox, so I can't tell if better than webbing.

Interesting pictures, thanks for sharing! I have noticed an improvement in my shaving since introducing a linen strop into my routine, your pictures seem to back up what my face is telling me:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandycrack

This was very helpful. Thank you.

So - in short
More laps on the strop is better than fewer laps - with correct form.
CrOx improves the edge.
Linen is better than webbing (with or without CrOx).

Is that right? I do strop my razors on a CrOx pasted jute strop and it works awesome, but I only do it as a touch up when stopping on the leather doesn't seem to be doing as good a job. When CrOx doesn't get it, I go to the Swaty barber hone. After that, it's in for proper honing.

I used to strop freshly honed razors on the CrOx strop, but stopped after reading a few things on this forum. Now it's just touch ups.

Sandycrack

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I've also stopped using CrOx after honing a razor. Partly because I want to feel what the hones are doing to the edge, but mostly because it's just not a necessity. And after discovering the wonder that is a barber hone, I've more or less retired the CrOx all together. It's faster (and less awkward) to touch up a blade by tossing a little lather on a Swaty and doing 4-6 strokes than it is to try and flip open my strop to get at the CrOx pasted linen for 10 laps.

Very interesting to see what the linen and leather are doing at that high magnification. Looks different than what I saw through a 60x loupe, but I'm still adjusting my technique and haven't looked in a while. Might warrant a little closer inspection when I feel up to playing with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sqzbxr

Have you ever seen this: https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-stropping-do/

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Yeah once, quite a while back. Very informative shots. My goal here was to see the effect of what my process is, on the edge. It was interesting to see several things and it's helping me interpret what I see when using the USB microscope.

I was wondering the usefulness of the linen (cloth) stropping, and this showed some interesting results. Also, I wasn't sure of the effects of the Cr-Ox (both the lightly and moderately coated versions I had on the webbed strop).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sqzbxr

Have you ever seen this: https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-stropping-do/

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No, this was the first time I've seen this. I spent some time reading thru the information, mostly out of curiosity. It's way too in depth for me. It's like a PhD level study in razor stropping, but kudos to the guy for his hard work, scientific approach, and dedication.

I'm just looking for the best conventional wisdom on what works and I'm 99% there. When we get to this level of detail, it's an obsession. That's not a bad thing - it just isn't my particular obsession. I'm just shaving whiskers, not splitting atoms. :D

I'm sure somewhere out there one could find a market for a 50k grit synthetic. LOL!

Sandycrack

When something is done for years and years by professionals folks just seem to have problems believing it to be the truth. However time and time again we see the old way and materials are the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandycrack

ic approach, and dedication.

I'm just looking for the best conventional wisdom on what works and I'm 99% there.

Sandycrack

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Stropping, like a lot of other things to do with shaving, draws plenty of differing opinions - your 99% today might be 75% tomorrow.

Thanks to the OP though - I think the photos do tell us a lot about the burnishing effect of linen and leather.

Loved the photos! At one of our last meets we too as a NC contingent had a USB scope and computer by a member to look at edges before and after some time on the stones. We did not do linen and leather that day. You could see real quick the effects of a touched up razor on a hone than it was prior of course and one would expect that.

Your in depth look into this just sheds light that whatever a persons method may be, whether using linen or web prior to leather, and whether using Cro-Mox prior to the linen or web then leather the effects will be better than not.

I have a ritual like most I am sure. If I am doing a full blade workup it is in this order for simplicity (without going into grit of stones and progression):

Stones
Cro-Mox
Linen or web
Strop

End is a shave ready razor that is rather sharp you might say that glides across my face for a super close shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

When something is done for years and years by professionals folks just seem to have problems believing it to be the truth. However time and time again we see the old way and materials are the best.

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I agree! I don't get into the science of it, I just do it. But it is great to see what the OP has shown for sure to give those who may have never seen a edge under close inspection what it looks like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

When something is done for years and years by professionals folks just seem to have problems believing it to be the truth. However time and time again we see the old way and materials are the best.

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Hey Spender;
Do I read this correctly that linen is as good or better than leather? I've often done a few strokes on linen between passes and found quick improvement.
Also, Newbies might save their leather by using only the linen until their stropping technique is perfected

I would say no. Even if it isn't visible at this magnification the leather is still having an effect on the blade at the smallest level. If you check the link to Science of Sharp you can see what the leather is doing to make the shave smoother and more face-friendly.

To me, it seemed like the 25 strokes of linen gave a similar effect to 50 strokes on the leather (step 5 vs step 2). It did seem like 100 strokes on leather made it better, but not by very much from what I was seeing (step 3 vs step 2). Maybe I needed to observer a larger region. Also, another 25 stokes on the linen didn't seem to improve much to me (step 6 vs step 5).

At least that was my interpretation of the shots - granted with reflections as lighting it is hard to assess.

Nice shots and all but the part that matters you can't see :<0)

Linen and leather are 2 different things. Linen generally goes first to remove dirt from the blade and do most of the heavy lifting of stropping. I wash my linen when it gets dirty and way more often than my leather.

Another experiment you could do is stropping on different kinds of leather. Progressive stropping. You may not be able to see a difference but you MAY be able to feel the difference. Once again it's not what you see but what you feel.

I've never really been able to interpret close-up pics very well, but those look to be nicely taken.

Here's what I think. No one has a problem with a grit progression when honing. Start with a low grit (large particle size) to take off lots of metal. Then progressively work your way up to a point on the hones where you are polishing the metal with a very very fine grit.

So what's the next step? Polish the edge with the finest of grits - no grit. Leather.

That's stropping.

James.

I have been looking at edges under a light microscope myself quite often. I found that the the amount of light and varying the angle between the light source and the blade can make things look very different.
If you look really well at the pictures in the OP that are used to prove the difference stropping can make you will see that the lighting is different. Just look at the part of the blade beyond the bevel. This may make the differences before and after look larger than they are in reality.
Looking at the pictures of scienceofsharp it makes me wonder whether the effects of stropping are very significant. Even at such magnifications the differences before and after are very modest. The burnishing effect of linen stropping is most significant IMHO.