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Good morning. I just have a quick question about how everybody uses their CrOX? I recently used it to refresh a blade that was dulled, but not rolled, due to less than perfect stropping. Now my razor is exceptional.
But here is my question. Do you use your CrOX on a regular basis, say once every 1-2 weeks or so? Or do you only use it when stropping alone does not get your edge sufficiently refreshed? Thanks a bunch. :)
I only use it when my razors start to pull a little. It refreshes well but won't bring back a edge from too far gone so don't wait:)
With Chrome Oxide you can do either. A regular maintenance schedule like one a week or two will keep the edge keen and smooth, or you can strop at the slightest sign of flagging edge.
The trouble with waiting is, you may wait too long, as said. Or if the edge is damaged from stropping, Chrome Oxide may not be enough to bring the edge back, remember Chrome Ox is about 30K.
Often with new stroppers the spine is lifted and the edge rolled. If that is the case Chrome Oxide may not re-set the edge. But jointing the edge and re-setting on a high grit stone may. Then polish on Chrome Oxide.
With Chrome Oxide the hardness of the substrate and pressure will affect performance. So if the edge is harsh after Chrome Oxide, first look at the edge and make sure it is chip free, use lite pressure and more laps and makes sure you are using razor quality Chrome Oxide, it is not expensive.
And make sure to wipe your razor clean after use, to prevent contamination of your leather strop.
I was thinking along those lines. But I was curious to hear what our veterans/mentors had to say. I shave every other day so I am thinking once every two weeks is a good startQuote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
That was my biggest fear as well. I do have some strop nicks that are about 1.5 inches from the paddles. Yet my strop is still very usable and the nicks give me a sign as to when to begin the flip. But from looking at the edge under a 15x photographer's loupe as well as carefully performing the "pin test" where one takes a straight pin and draws it perpendicularly from spine to edge, I was able to deduce I did not roll the edge. Plus I was able to cut arm hair on both sides of the razor. But about 15-16 laps across the CrOX was just what I needed. Plus my razor burn was greatly reduced. I know that's a lot of passes but it seemed to be what the edge I had neededQuote:
Often with new stroppers the spine is lifted and the edge rolled. If that is the case Chrome Oxide may not re-set the edge. But jointing the edge and re-setting on a high grit stone may. Then polish on Chrome Oxide.
I got my CrOX from SRD so I know I got a good quality formulation. I did watch Lynn's video about refreshing a razor with CrOX multiple times before I even placed the order. I take extra care to wipe the edge clean so as not to undo my efforts.Quote:
With Chrome Oxide the hardness of the substrate and pressure will affect performance. So if the edge is harsh after Chrome Oxide, first look at the edge and make sure it is chip free, use lite pressure and more laps and makes sure you are using razor quality Chrome Oxide, it is not expensive.
And make sure to wipe your razor clean after use, to prevent contamination of your leather strop.
15-16 laps are, not a lot. As you have found, it depend on what the edge needs. Typically when honing I do 20-30 laps between stones on a Sail Cloth polyester canvas strop with no ill effects to the edge.
Pressure is the edge killer.
So while the pin test will tell you, if you have rolled the edge, if you do roll the edge and strop on both sides of the bevel with pressure, you can easily break the rolled fin off, leaving a jagged micro chipped edge that the pin will not detect.
This is where looking at the edge, straight down on the edge and from the side with magnification and strong light will give you a better idea of what is going on at the edge.
If so, micro chipping can often be jointed smooth and the bevels brought back to meeting in a few laps (10-20) of a high grit stone.
There is a recent video of Mastro Levi taking a shave ready razor and killing the edge on a glass, then stropping on Chrome Oxide leather paddle strop, about 20 laps to bring the edge back to shave ready. At about 1425 in the video.
It is an interesting video, (Mastro Levi School, How to use a Straight Razor Strop), although he does seem to use more pressure, than I recommend and also his signature “Razor Slapping Style”. He, though can get away with it, as I do believe, he has a bit of experience with the technique.
He also used way more Chrome Oxide than I have ever used, literally trowels it on with a stick …
That's Livi's own formulation paste. I don't know how concentrated the Crox in it is but it's not pure crox at any rate.
I use CrOx on balsa along with FeOx. Usually I use it around every 6-7 shaves then strop as normal. One razor I have I use it EVERY TIME and have for over two years as an experiment. There has been no damage to the razor AT ALL. No double bevel. No deteriation of edge or steel. Nothing. Contrary to many theories. Of course this is not a theory this is something I have done and continue to do. Many people have issue with this but luckily it's not their razor.
Yup, I strop on CBN daily, usually .125um, but in the past used Chrome Oxide, Ferrous and Cerium Oxides on canvas, paper or leather for years.
The worst that could happen with high nano grits, is the edge can micro chip, a quick jointing and re-setting the edge, will easily resolve that.
With a paste maintenance schedule and proper stropping, a razor may never need a full bevel setting again.
I think I have decided on a great indicator on when to hit the CrOX. I do the fool's pass and if I find a tiny bit of drag, the next shave will see the CrOX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
My line of thought is to eventually supplement the CrOX with a Naniwa 12k for a refresh hone if needed.Quote:
With a paste maintenance schedule and proper stropping, a razor may never need a full bevel setting again.
I've tried CrOX on leather, newspaper, felt, balsa and linen. I have to say that I find it works best with with light pressure on the linen. Basically in my experience it works well with everything except leather. Could be just me.
before I shave, every time, I make 14 passes (hardly any pressure) on the CROx side of the leather and 40 passes (hardly any pressure) on the smooth leather strop side. Every time I get an exceptionally smooth close shave. However, in reading this, my fear is that I could be damaging my razors. Can you help me understand if I'm doing something wrong? Many Thanks!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
A few years ago several of us tested Chrome Oxide, stropping daily with the same razor for over a year. None of us had an edge issue and did not have to re-hone or touch up the razor during the test. I stopped after a year but I think some went even longer.
I am talking about Nano grit paste in the .125 or .10 um range, the equivalent of 120 and 160k grit range. Chrome Oxide is about .50 – 30K grit equivalent.
When we strop on these exstream nano grits and some stones, like the Shapton 30k and the GS20, on some steels, it you do too many laps the edge can get too thin, will not hold the edge and begin to micro-chip. You may be fine for 5-10 shaves and then with repeated stropping the edge micro-chips. You can also cause this to happen on some razors with the GS20 and make the edge uncomfortable straight off the stone.
This is not an issue with Chrome Oxide, unless razor quality “Chrome Oxide” is not used. You will not damage your razor stropping on chrome oxide unless you use too much pressure on a hard substrate. Of course, result will depend on the condition of the edge prior to stropping.
But even if micro chipping occurs, it is simply a matter of Jointing the edge and re setting it on a finish stone, only a sliver of the edge is removed and can be restored in just a few laps.
That is great information. Every time I post, I learn something. I'll watch the edges and if necessary, I have a barber hone that I will use to touch up the razors. I will not take them back to the 1K/6K wet stones that I originally put the bevel and edges on yet. I appreciate your feedback!Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
I do 5-10 very light laps on my felt/CrOx strop every other week with my daily shavers. Seems to keep the edges keen and smooth. I think, as with stropping, honing or CrOx, pressure is the key. Too much will kill the edge, no matter the media you are using.
What are good sources for razor-quality Chrome Oxide (& Iron Oxide)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
SRD is a good source. I believe they get it through Maestro Livi. I've been told other sources (like possibly hardware stores the product is not really good crox.
I hope people don't try this at home. Especially the TNT while stropping :dropjaw:Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Hand America brand Chrome Oxide in the crayon, liquid and spray and Powder from Kremer Pigments are the best one I have tried. I believe the Chrome Ox sold by SRD is Hand America brand, I find the Crayon stick the easiest to use and apply.
Do not use too much as contamination of your leather strop can be an issue if not wiped from the razor completely. And really you do not need much to strop a razor.
Do not use Chrome Oxide sold as “Green Rouge” for polishing or sharpening, they contain other abrasives of unknown grit or size and will cause a micro-chipped harsh edge.
Once you apply any paste to a substrate it can never be completely removed, so make sure you are buying pure, quality Chrome Oxide. It is really not expensive and a one-time purchase is a life-time supply.
I just got my Mastro Livi loom strop and I feel the major difference on the chromium oxide side is the linen. It is very fine compared to other course material I have used. I also saw his video and found on the loom using the X stroke works very well. As stated extremely light pressure on his strop. Maggard's has chromium oxide paste.
I bought what was described as pure Chromium Oxide from a Pottery supply Co. (They use it as a glaze on ceramic items.) I bought 100gms in powder form for 8 dollars. I use it directly onto a canvas strop, spreading it out with a strainer. I moisten it, next day its good to go. I rang a lapidary company and the atypical grit of ChOx is 60k. I give my razors six laps every second time I use one (I have a dozen or so I use regularly). I do not like crayons, mainly as when the crayon is spent, try getting off the residue. Nigh impossible. With the powder, just stick the strop in a bucket of water and rinse it off, start again. 100grms is enough to make hundreds of strops. I have tried mixing it with oil directly onto balsa wood, didn't like it.
*Chromium Oxide is a rust inhibitor. Iron oxide is 'Rust'.