Strop purchasing suggestions.

Hi,
I'm considering purchasing a new strop and would like to ask for a few opinions.
First of all, I use one razor (my favorite Dovo 5/8 "Special" Tortoise), one brush, and would like to purchase one more hanging, linen/leather strop and use it exclusively. I don't use pastes. I keep my razor extremely sharp by using only my current linen/leather hanging strop and my Norton 4/8.

I keep hearing how wonderful TM's strops are and would like to take a closer look, but have a few questions first.

My current (and only) strop is a Dovo "Prima" with a linen side. It's stropping dimensions are 1 3/4 inches wide, and 13 inches long. So, this is what I'm used to and all I "know" in stropping.
1. I do want the linen side, so that narrows the choices a bit.
2. Do you think the wider 3" is worth it? It would accomodate the entire cutting edge of my Dovo. Or do you recommend the 2 1/2?
3. I read terms like " red latigo", "genuine horsehide" , "honey brown", etc. Any differences or preferences to consider here?
4. I do like somewhat of a draw feeling (when my current strop gets "slippery", I apply mink oil to create the resistance against the blade.) But I know this is not a requirement for a high-quality strop.
5. It must be durable. I want this to be my only strop for a lot of years. (I like to drive cars into the ground, too!)
6. I'm leaning toward the #1 Heirloom Best Wide Honey Brown strop. Does this seem like a good fit for me, based on your experiences?
7. Any other suggestions?

I am grateful to those who reply.
(Tony M: If you are out there, you are welcome to chime in, or send me a pm. It might help me decide!)
Thanks, guys,
Ron

My reference is a 2 1[2 inch wide strop. Based on your "draw" comment I don't think you would be happy with the Honey Brown as it has practically no draw. A Tony Miller Red Latigo has good draw.

Get the strop your heart desires because anything Tony has is great. My questions for you are. Are YOU comfortable with a thinner strop or do YOU really want the wider strop? I think an X pattern is beneficial so don't necessarily think the 3" is necessary. That said, I'd probably buy one right now if I could. I'd also go with the Horsehide if I could simply because this is traditionally what the best strops were made from. They musta known something back then.

X

I have just bought a set of strops off Tony. A horse/real linen in 2.5" and a Latigo/horse in 2.5". I can not speak highly enough of these strops and would highly recommend TM strops.

I tried the 3" strops having mainly stropped on 2.5 and 2" strops for 25 years. 3" strops work as well as any size but for me they are too wide, I'm just to used to thinner strops now.
latigo strops have good draw but I prefer to fully pumice them till they have a nap. This smooths out the draw and make it into a great pre-strop.
TM's Horse hide strops are as supple as Calf skin strops and I just loved the silky feel you get with just the right amount of draw. Dressing imo would ruin these strops, they are top rate as they come. I would highly recommend his "real linen" as the match to what leather you choose. This linen really brings the edge back to life but I would suggest less pressure is best and with toe leading. When you get the linen I wouold suggest that you do the barbers spirit cotton singe over the surface to remove the fine strands. This stops them balling up while you strop.

So my recommendation is for: Horse Hide real Linen combo in 2.5" (handle is your choice)


PuFF

Yeah, what Puff said <g>

I try not to direct anyone to products in anything other than the vendor section but will gladly answer questions if asked.

I don't think the Honey Brown will be what you are after as it has such light draw. Actually it has similar actual draw to the Horsehide but that leather seems a bit more effective. Puff owns them all so his advice, and the fact that he experiments with the a bit makes him pretty familair with what each will do.

I too like 2 1/2" over 3" but I just like narrower strops and stones.

Tony

Puff, not to hijack this thread but could you elaborate on what you did with the real linen to improve it's hairiness <g>. I have not incorporated it into my daily production yet as I am awaiting feedback first.

Real linen...oh crap, one more thing i'll need to get eventually!

I think he meant he took the linen to a flame to burn off the 'fuzz'. Kinda like the trick where you take a flame to a new pair of socks and all the surface fuzz ignites and then goes out.

I really, really, really love the feel of the honeybrown. The horseside is similar is the amount of draw, but i find it has a little more texture to it. It gives a little more feedback.

Tony
Barbers used to soak a cotton bud tip in spirit then light it. This was then tapped against your ears to remove the hair from ear lobes. Well, I used a similar technique to remove the surface fluff off the linen. A gas lighter would do I guess but I'm sure it would scorch the linen if left in one area too long.

You are right about the honey Brown being lighter draw. This can be increased though with different types of surface prep to what stage you prefer but the Horse Hide has the same draw as Russian leather as it comes from Tony. Oil would increase this but I think it would get enough oil from a regular palm rub. Oils are hard to apply in light dressing, they tend to have to be over applied to get an even covering. Best way is to rub a light amount (1-2 drops) into your hands and then palm it in.

PuFF

Listen to Puff!

I also would go for 2.5" Russian w/ linen without any doubt. 3" is too wide for me too. One thing - Tony's linen was not waxed, if I remember correctly. You can melt and iron in some beeswax. Obviously - must be done carefully

Cheers
Ivo

whats the advantage of melting beeswax into thr linen? to make it stiffer?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edk442

whats the advantage of melting beeswax into thr linen? to make it stiffer?

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Honestly - I am not sure. I have used untreated (vintage cleaned) linen strops with great results. But we do know vintage linens were treated. It does make the linen stiffer, of course - but I think there must have been other reasons, too? Maybe there is something specific added to the glide. I would certainly love to hear more from anyone in the know.

Cheers
Ivo

Hey, Guys,
Thanks SO much for the great information. I have a birthday coming up and will make a decision relying heavily on your suggestions.
Ron.

I'll have to add my voice to recommending Tony's stuff.. Whatever you get from him will be good as the differences are in size and trim. Well you can pick honey brown or latigo (latigo has a lot more draw), but according to people who have used both types, they perform about the same. 3" isn't a necessity. I have some fairly long razors and 2.5 has been more than enough for them, when using the x-pattern, which I'd recommend in any case as no piece of leather will be perfectly flat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

Honestly - I am not sure. I have used untreated (vintage cleaned) linen strops with great results. But we do know vintage linens were treated. It does make the linen stiffer, of course - but I think there must have been other reasons, too? Maybe there is something specific added to the glide. I would certainly love to hear more from anyone in the know.

Cheers
Ivo

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I believe that waxed/soaped Linen strops are tolerant of climatic conditions. They also exhibit a small amount of draw which give greater control over the stroke. A filled surface to the linen makes it possible to apply abrasives etc with good effect though I am not sure that this would have been the consideration when first done.
I stand to be corrected on any of those points but they are put forward based on my own experience.

PuFF

Hi Puff,

I feel a different glide from the wax - maybe a tad *sticky* while smooth (vs untreated, which is obviously not as smooth but less sticky.) I cannot say if it is better than no wax for the edge. And one vintage strop that I received treated had some abrasive stuff in it.

The resistance to changes with climate / moisture also makes sense to me - but I am not sure if this was of any concern to the people at the time. I remember that someone on ebay said common strops were hanging from a tree or a beam in the past, so if the linen was kept outside maybe this is one more reason for the treatment

Cheers
Ivo

I don't have enough experience with different strops and linens and such, but I'd like to echo my satisfaction with Tony's strops. The quality is par excellence!

Another vote for Tony. :tu

Viktor

I've had 2 of Tony's #1 strops now, the first was a narrower one which I sold to a buddy when I upgraded to a 3" wide one.

Unfortunately I had an accident with the 3" wide one recently and ended up destroying it. I tried to fix some unevenness/curling in the surface which developed over the last few months by "shaving" the surface with a DE razor. It seemed like a good idea at the time (honestly), but I ended up gouging the surface badly. I tried sanding the whole strop down but that just made matters worse. I ended up trashing what was really a perfectly good strop, I was not happy to say the least! :cry:

Just for a change, I've gone for an Illinois #827 russian leather strop this time, as I've only ever used Tony's strops so far and wanted to try something else. But I suspect I'll be ordering another one of Tonys strops again in the future - they're very good indeed.

At the moment I'm using my practice strop (which is usually my travel strop these days) until the Illinois arrives, the practice strop is very good too. :)

Crazy idea to fix cupping for sure, Iwan! Did you check with Tony before you went ahead?

Anyway, yes - the 3" are more likely to cup, it seems. I prefer a 2-2.5" anyway. Tony's strops are great, no doubt about it

Cheers
Ivo

Strange...:thinking: ...I regularly shave my strops, but only after rubbing the razor for a minimum of 50 strokes on my face. Perhaps you neglected that important procedure.

:shrug: Bruce

Hey, Iwan,

I'd be very interested in knowing how you like your new Illinois 827. It reads like a fine strop on the classicshaving.com website.

Ron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ron A

Hey, Iwan,

I'd be very interested in knowing how you like your new Illinois 827. It reads like a fine strop on the classicshaving.com website.

Ron

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If that's the one - I'm pretty sure it's not real horse hide

Cheers
Ivo

No I didn't check with Tony first, it was one of those brainwaves I sometimes have that seemed like a great idea at the time! :w

I hope the Illinois will be ok, if not I'll likely go back to a Tony Miller #1 strop again, but a 2.5" one next time.

I have DOVO's Best Russian strop, as well as a new Latigo Paragon 3"
from Tony. I sincerely want to go back and try the DOVO to make a
comparison, but I can never bring myself to do it when it comes to
shave time!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sebell

I have DOVO's Best Russian strop, as well as a new Latigo Paragon 3"
from Tony. I sincerely want to go back and try the DOVO to make a
comparison, but I can never bring myself to do it when it comes to
shave time!

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I feel you can't compare the Dovo Russian and a Latigo from TM, they are different beasts I feel for different purposes. My Dovo Russian is a fantastic finishing strop and proves itself on all grinds but more so the lighter grinds. Latigo is a heavy draw strop and suits the heavy razors better (wedges etc), this is not to say it can't be used for full hollows, just it performs well as a pre-strop and heavy razor finisher better than others imo.

PuFF

While I have not had any of my personal strops cup permanently they may occasionally start to cup a little. An easy fix is to hold one hand near the top slightly sqeezing the cup the opposite way then run you hand slowly down the strop. This gentle reverse bow usually corrects the issue within 3 or 4 passes. Humid conditions can make this happen on occasion and some brands are very prone to this. As much as I like the look of Jemico strops I have always had issues with this happening on them.


The Illinois 827 has a unique feel to it. This is actually made with the leather reversed....smooth side on the back, against thew linen and filled with ridges to compress the front, flesh side that is used for stropping. These tend to have lots of draw. These, like other Illinois strops are cowhide, not horsehide although one well known shaving dealer insists on advertising them as horse even though Illinois advertises them all as cowhide.

I do not suggest shaving my strops <g>, nor soaking the linen with lather, etc....

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I do not suggest shaving my strops <g>, nor soaking the linen with lather, etc....

Tony

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well, one can shave his face only so many times in a day... :roflmao

Cheers
Ivo

I'm new to this and am trying to pick up information where I can.

This is a very informative post for me. I've been looking at strops on eBay, in the $20-$30 range. But who knows what I would be getting. This discussion may be causing me to change my mind.

Tom

So....first I get infected with RAD (as Lynn and JoshEarl can attest to :w)...then MamaBear entices me with the soaps and creams (hmmm...I guess I don't need all this other crap in the medicine cabinet...there, much better...neatly arranged soap tubs... :eek:)....I have a nice big Vulfix super badger brush (the big one...I have a big face...small brushes are like trying to paint with a q-tip).......now I am wondering if I have the necessary "stroppage" in the quest for the perfect shave....I have an Illinois 827 Russian with the loose linen strop attached. I repeatedly get an edge that passes the HHT with a nice "tink". I am looking for function over looks (although TM's stuf is amazing)...so, horsehide seems to be better material...but:

1. Do you use pasted strops every day?
2. If so, what grit?
3. Do you use different grits, in an escalating fineness?
4. Paddle strop or another hanging? I am thinking a paddle would eliminate any risk of sag or twist in the strop during use and with different pastes where needed.
5. Is the X-pattern better than a diagonal heel-to-toe and back again?
6. With pasted strops, how many passes? How many without paste? (I have been doing 10-20 linen and 40+ on the leather)
7. What is the air speed velocity of a coconut-laden swallow?

WireBeard :bow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WireBeard

I am looking for function over looks (although TM's stuf is amazing)...so, horsehide seems to be better material...but:

1. Do you use pasted strops every day?
2. If so, what grit?
3. Do you use different grits, in an escalating fineness?
4. Paddle strop or another hanging? I am thinking a paddle would eliminate any risk of sag or twist in the strop during use and with different pastes where needed.
5. Is the X-pattern better than a diagonal heel-to-toe and back again?
6. With pasted strops, how many passes? How many without paste? (I have been doing 10-20 linen and 40+ on the leather)
7. What is the air speed velocity of a coconut-laden swallow?

WireBeard :bow

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Horsehide, cowhide all will achieve the same result with care.

1. no, only when needed
2. I use Lithide and Diamond. Lithide is a fine paste. Diamond 1>.25 depending on edge condition.
3. YES
4. All do the same job, personal pref wins here.
5. Find the action you feel comfortable with. I pref X on 2-2.5" strops and diag on 3". All with work with CARE.
6. As many as needed with attention paid to edge every 10 or less with paste. 30+ with the leather would be a good starting point though you will find this varies with razor and if fresh of the hone or day-to-day.
7. 0 it wouldn't have taken off. :)

PuFF

I don't use pastes at all.
Unlike most (maybe all) at the SRP, I use one razor, one brush, one strop, but several different soaps and aftershaves for variety.
I don't like "production" and enjoy things more when kept simple.
I find that the 'X' pattern on my hanging strop and occassional touch-ups on my 4000/8000 Norton do just fine in keeping my razor sharp.
Ron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WireBeard

So....first
....
6. With pasted strops, how many passes? How many without paste? (I have been doing 10-20 linen and 40+ on the leather)
7. What is the air speed velocity of a coconut-laden swallow?

WireBeard :bow

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Do not use pasted strops daily... get a nice unpasted hanging strop and do 20-30 on each the linen and the leather


as for #7 would that be an african or a european swallow?

He has the correct response to #7! (...and there was much rejoicing...ya-a-a-a-ay)...

Thanks for all the responses. As usual, great info and lots of experience to back it up.

At what point do you decide to go to a pasted strop as part of that days routine? Is it when you notice that the normal stropping just isn't "cutting it" anymore? (Hahaha...ok, a graoner, but it was there and I had to take it.....:roflmao )

Will you use more than one pasted strop during the same stopping routine (coarser to finer)?

Thanks again for all the great info!

Greg