Break free from the numbers!

Before starting honing razors I never worried about counting laps whether that was sharpening a knife or sanding or polishing. But then....1....2...3...40 linen 1...2....3....4......5.......65 leather.

Is there a magic number, I thought, like 39? 39 laps and it’s not good but 40 it is! No. It was a guide to use as a beginner. The problem is I was subconsciously counting instead of paying full attention to what I was doing.

When honing, I long ago stopped counting and just went until it passed whatever test I was using (AHT,TPT,HHT) and I was able to focus more on getting contact with the whole edge, pressure, etc.

So, I timed myself while stropping and found I average 2 laps a second. Then I started stropping paying attention to what I was doing. When it felt like I had stropped long enough I looked at the clock and determined how many laps I made (usually right around 40/65 as I normally did). Then I quickly transitioned to the final step of just stropping with no mind of time or laps.

When I do double check I am usually doing more than enough and it is freeing not to have to worry about XX linen and XX leather. I just strop and focus on what I am doing. VERY FREEING.

I can see counting laps as being useful to beginners. A sort of training wheels. But at some point, for me, it became counter productive. Just my 2¢.

I count. I use heel leadimg half strokes. As things develop on one side I flip and do the same on the other. And then do decreasing laps by half on both sides til I'm at 5. Works a charm for me. Every blade is different and I don't have a set count.

Being you mentioned this, I never counted laps, too distracting. But like you, my passes are roughly the same, and counted by the time spent. I know that 30 seconds gives me 40 passes, + or - a few

Good point, i find myself counting when honing which i realize doesn't mean anything as each razor is different . Stropping i think i count somewhat superstitiously. 30 on linen 105 on leather. Why? I don't know. I guess i'm not really sure when to stop. Can't say i notice much of a difference weather i do more or less, so i throw in a few extra just to be sure.

I'm not sure it really matters, either way. Some people count, others are just naturals and know when it's time to stop.

Here's what I found out. Try a process and if it works, keep it. Great shaves always! If it doesn't work, change it until it does work. Then you'll have great shaves always!

Absolutely not!
If I dont have numbers in my life the world will implode, numbers is good, numbers is uniformity and without uniformity we have chaos!
Im joking of course... well maybe not, the OCD in me needs things to be neat and tidy and not counting laps would screw with my delicate head. I even know it takes 120 seconds to get to my kids park for fs sake :banghead:

To get around my idiocy I count in sets of 10 -20 etc, when setting a bevel I keep going in sets of 20 until my loupe tells me its set, I finish with 10 laps of feather light laps just to make sure... and then the world is right and just again. :)

I’ve always counted laps on the strop, not sure I could stop myself at this point. The only time I count while honing is when I’m on the finishing hone as I seem to blow the edge out after a certain point.

I count. OCD says I have too.
Now, do I pay attention to the count? Never. It's more feel and sound and feeling like its done. But I can't help but count, everything! :aargh: I once even counted all the buttons and knobs in my radio room. Why? Who knows. But it is over 250. Then I was amazed that I know what every button and knob does. Counting makes me feel normal/rational. Just don't ask how many laps I really did on the strop. A can't remember for sure. It's around 30/60 or 50/250 or......:shrug:

How about somewhere in between. :rofl2:

I have too short of an attention span to be able to pay attention to my technique and accurately count the strokes. Honing I look and feel, then check with a loupe, stropping I just go for it until I think it’s enough. I would be willing to bet my linen count is somewhere around 60 and my leather count somewhere around 100, but it is effective at whatever count it is.

The only thing I count is the number of times I shake my brush over the tub.

33. The product of two prime numbers

Even if there is a "magic number" of laps that makes an edge great, that number might only apply to one razor. Because razors differ in size, grind, steel type, tempering, etc. every razor is going to be different in the way they hone and strop. You might get lucky and find that similar razors behave similarly, for example Solingen steel, full-hollow blades.

Some studies have found that as you increase the number of laps, there is a diminishing return on performance vs effort, so if you do enough strokes, you might not see a difference in blades.

Great thread. It seems to me that counting laps is an important first step for a lot of people, and akin to crawling, it helps them to walk and then run later on; a starting point but as you realize that counting strokes matters far less than the feel of the blade on the hone or leather it's importance diminishes and eventually disappears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RayClem

Even if there is a "magic number" of laps that makes an edge great, that number might only apply to one razor. Because razors differ in size, grind, steel type, tempering, etc. every razor is going to be different in the way they hone and strop. You might get lucky and find that similar razors behave similarly, for example Solingen steel, full-hollow blades.

Some studies have found that as you increase the number of laps, there is a diminishing return on performance vs effort, so if you do enough strokes, you might not see a difference in blades.

---

Right...its called muscle fatigue. Unless your stamina is great enough to sustain it for longer periods of time. But eventually it gonna happen. So I do take breaks between strops, on a newly honed edge. ( The only time I use a progression of strops)

After that its 30 seconds, before n after a shave, on a single strop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rolodave

The only thing I count is the number of times I shake my brush over the tub.

33. The product of two prime numbers

---

33? After a few shakes your just playing with it! :rofl2:

Counting still out of habit yet paying more attention to the razor, strop, and stroke evenness more than anything else.

I'm a numbers OCD Guy, it's 100 for me that means 50 up 50 down = 100 Linen first then 50 up 50 down = 100 Leather, I wish I could break away from my life controlling little OCD but I'm affraid it's not worth fighting.

Never counted. I strop for about 10 seconds and shave. Honing to refresh an edge I just go by feel..when it's done it's done. Time about 5 minutes round trip from bathroom to bench

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

I'm a numbers OCD Guy, it's 100 for me that means 50 up 50 down = 100 Linen first then 50 up 50 down = 100 Leather, I wish I could break away from my life controlling little OCD but I'm affraid it's not worth fighting.

---

OCD may be a virtue in a craftsman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Speedster

Counting still out of habit yet paying more attention to the razor, strop, and stroke evenness more than anything else.

---

That’s what I was doing it out of - habit. I guess it was just my time to move on. Much like rezdog I couldn’t count AND pay full attention. Now, like the old barbers I have seen, I just strop for a while and I’m done.

“This thread was brought to you today by the number “33””-(Sesame Street reference for those who don’t know)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steel

That’s what I was doing it out of - habit. I guess it was just my time to move on. Much like rezdog I couldn’t count AND pay full attention. Now, like the old barbers I have seen, I just strop for a while and I’m done.

“This thread was brought to you today by the number “33””-(Sesame Street reference for those who don’t know)

---

Thanks for the trip through the wayback machine to 1970 something...

:rofl2:

I can totally see where keeping track of lap count might take away focus paid to the quality of the strokes themselves. Also from the varying numbers of laps used by so many experienced members here, I (slowly) came to realize that the overall quality of stropping mattered more than the lap count.

However, I'm just OCD enough to continue counting regardless of feel or necessity,...and I'm a numbers guy so there's always that. :shrug: