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Hello , I'm new to straight razor shaving and have just got a few questions i'm not clear on. Is it inportant to learn how to strop quickly. can you strop a razor properly going slow or does it require a fast stropping technique? also do you use a X pattern stroke on a 3 inch wide strop?
Personally, I don't worry about speed, just make sure you do it correctly and speed will come. I bet you could speed 5-10 times faster than anybody on the forums and not notice a difference in shave quality.
As far as the x-pattern goes: it depends! If the razor isn't badly warped, or doesn't require a serious rolling x to hone, you could just do straight passes and be just fine...:hmmm: then again, as long as the edge actually contacts the strop, you can do X-passes all you want!
Hi Jules - welcome to SRP!
I always use an X-pattern, even with a 3-inch strop - my reasoning is that if the strop is cupped even a little bit, then going just straight up and down will leave a bit of the edge un-stropped - using an x-pattern consistently avoids this variable all together.
As for speed, I would say as you are learning, just take your time and do the proper motion so that your muscle memory builds up - as you get more experienced at it, you will naturally go faster.
*This next bit is for information only - if you go too fast too soon, you'll cut up your strop and then it won't be good for anything* As a bit of an aside, I can remember the stropping speed experiment done here on SRP before the big server crash, and they found that extremely slow stropping doesn't provide as good an edge, but moderate to fast stropping provides the highest quality edge (some say due to the heat generated from the increased friction).
Good luck, and take your time developping a good stropping stroke - I'd say it's the most underrated part of a good shave, and can make a world of difference between a buttery smooth blade, and a blade that pulls and tugs.
Mark
I started out slow for fear of damaging the strop or the razor. I have gotten pretty fast over months of daily stropping but I don't try to go fast. As joke said, speed will come with practice. I use the 2 1/2" strop and always do the X pattern.
A very slow stropping speed has been shown to be ineffective:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...tropping+speed
When I started, my stropping was somewhat ineffective. I don't know whether it was because I was stropping slowly or because I wasn't making good contact with each pass, but at any rate I had to strop using twice as many laps each morning as I do now to get the same effects
I suspect that the above ineffectiveness with slow stropping may be that with slow stropping the stroke is also of lighter pressure than with a fast stroke. I've watched the deflection of my strop when I strop slowly and it appears to be less than when I do it fast.
Once a new straight shaver gets his "sea legs" and becomes accustomed to stropping, the speed and pressure will work themselves out. One doesn't want to drive the blade into the leather, but at the same time, this business of only stropping with the weight of the razor on the leather doesn't work either.
good shaving,
At this point in your straight razor life, speed isn't as important as technique. Watch the tension on the strop (i.e. nice, tight tension) and watch that the spine and edge both stay in contact with the strop for the stroke. Also watch that you're not pushing the blade into the strop, but just using enough pressure to keep the edge and spine in contact. (Maybe just slightly, slightly more than the actual blade weight into the strop, but if you have to think about how much weight, you're probably already putting too much into it.) All of this is to prevent you rolling the edge. I'm a fan of the X pattern for the above-stated reazons and use it on my 3" wide. Speed will most assuredly come as you lay a solid foundation of technique. I was surprised how fast speed built up as I stropped every day.
Stropping speed -vs- a fast stroke.... you can still create a good edge even though your stropping speed per se is slow...Speed is in the flip not in the actual stroke. Set the razor then do a moderately fast pass,,, flip slowly,,, and then do a moderately fast return pass....
If you pay attention to the spine of the razor you will improve your stropping skills, make sure the spine is flat, and on the strop at all times, the edge will take care of itself... you also avoid rounding and rolling the edge this way..... Basically think push the spine, not pull the edge, does that make any sense at all ?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
When I first stumbled across this forum I was somewhat puzzled about the advice to use "just the weight of the blade" when stropping. I thought good grief have I been doing it wrong all these years? Then I started down the long slippery path of trying to achieve scary sharp blades that give squeegie like shaves and wondered if maybe somehow my stropping ability was preventing me from my goal.
After reading a lot of posts about sanding strops or using latigo to increase the draw it's all starting to make sense. A strop with higher draw forces you to use the small (and I do mean SMALL) amount of pressure it takes to properly strop a razor.
I will even go so far out on the limb as to suggest this also applies to honing and the reason a lot of us instantly fall in love with the Shaptons as they provide just the right amount of "draw" to get the proper amount of pressure on the blade.
I'm skeptical about fast stropping generating heat and the heat somehow helps with the edge. Heat is heat, so if strop heat improved the edge, than why wouldn't heating the blade under hot water or with a hair dryer be even more effective?
I think Bruce has it pegged that faster stropping means a bit more draw/pressure than gliding the razor across the top of the strop with no pressure.
I use a Veritas honing guide for chisels (I'm not good enough to get a perfect chisel edge free hand). When I run the chisel bevel across a TM Red Latigo travel strop rubbed with chrome ox while it's fixed in the honing guide, I'm using a fair amount of pressure. Significantly more than when I strop my razors on other strops. My point is I have great results stropping chisels with a good dose of pressure.
I think finding the perfect balance of pressure is the key.
I also don't focus on trying to get my hand to go so fast that it's a blur when I strop razors. I'm focused much more on making sure the edge is getting stropped well and at what I consider to be a moderately paced smooth back and forth.
And, what Glen said and the barber manuals teach: The single best two things I've found that prevent nicking the strop: 1) Keep the spine of the razor in contact with the strop at ALL TIMES during stropping. 2) Keep the wrist stationary and fixed during the stropping process. Not rigid and tense, but don't pivot at the wrist.
Chris L
i agree with chris the balance of pressuse one uses determined the edge you wind up with, not how fast you get there, the old barbers stropped fast and cut their strops up once in a while too but they stropped every day and were good at it from lots of practice
when I strop the pressure i apply is greater than honing. My strop speed is approx 6 inch per second. On both strop and hone I torque the razor so that pressure is not only directed toward the edge, but in many instances to specific areas(changing, moving points) along the edge. It is like a rolling x with no actual lifting just directed pressure. And similar to taping without the tape.
Do you guys do similar?
Not yet. I consider that an advanced stropping technique and I haven't gotten there yet. Thanks for sharing that though. I may give it a go on a particular razor that might need that kind of treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
yeah, sort of.. i flow a little faster than 6"/sec.. and might not use as much pressure.. but yes, i can use a bit of a rolling stroke sometimes and not so much diagonal stroke..Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
Alan and I were fairly careful I think with the pressure used in that experiment (in terms of consistency between slow and fast stropping). I find that the downward pressure applied when I strop is always directed at the spine, never the edge - it just follows where I take the spine. And the pressure is not great.
Moderate speed works fine I think. As Glen said, it is usually the flip that slows you down as you learn, and there is nothing wrong with a slow flip.
There is also nothing wrong with approximating what Kevin does either, in my opinion, when you first start. Stropping parts of the edge at one time can work quite well (eg tip, middle, heel) by simply angling the razor (carefully) in the vertical plane (ie lift the heel slightly to strop the toe, and vice versa). The flex in the strop will allow this, within reason.
James.
Approximating is all I ever do anyway/ though i did count it and found my speed closer to 10 inch per second. I think that might be moderate speed or is it still in the realm of s l o w?
I'm not saying I do it right- it could be a bad habit. Not to mention I've never used a barber strop... someday I'll find the right one. ymmv considerably without paddle asisted stropping
i seem to get a better shave when i rinse my blade under hot water. weird.
tinfoil can also be heated rapidly.
How is the shave better: is there any other difference other than it feels better against your skin?Quote:
Originally Posted by p.z.
glen is right, my strokes are a good pzace, but my flips is where I lose speed, so woried about nicking my damn strop again. takes forever to get those strokes in it seems sometimes. :)
Red
Glen had it basically right in my book. A point of warning tho, when doing a fast stroke with a slow flip. Be sure not to stall the razor prior to the flip. This can cause small nicks. It is common to see strops with these small nicks at the held end usually and I would put this damage down to this technique.
Eventually the whole technique will come to be a flowing motion and speed will be a by product of your hard work. Don't make speed the holy grail but technique instead.
X stroke, diagonal heal leading, square blah blah. They all work and no one type is right. All can and are used by me depending on the situation.
PuFF