Illinois #827 Strop

I was wondering if the Illinois #827 strop has a specialized use. I just got one today from Bowman Beauty at a bargain price. The leather is a somewhat coarse texture yet smooth finish on the business side and has ridges cut or embossed into the back which makes it very flexable. The linen side is pretty standard fare.
In contrast my new Illinois #361 from Norva Barber Supply (another bargain) is a smoother finish, very thick and very stiff.

Anyone familiar with this one?

Tony Miller

www.bowmanbeauty.com
www.norvabarbersupply.com

The only Illinois strop I have presently is an 835 which has an unfinished leather back. But I have other vintage strops that are bonded on the back of the leather with rubber, either a honey-comb pattern, or ridges & grooves .... I think they did that to keep the leather from curling as it dried out. Of course, if you use Fromm strop dressing periodically, the leather won't dry to that point.

Uthed,
I have seen the #835 and it is similar to my #361 except for the handles I think. The #361 has no handles. 2.5" x24". The #827 is odd though. 2.5" x 24" with handles but a different finish on ther front side of the leather and ridges cut into the back of the leather. It is one of the higher end Illinois strops so the rough finish does not seem to be a cost cutting factor so maybe it is just designed for a middle step in stropping process.
Tony

I have an 827 and I admit it is an odd strop in my opinion. Not sure if I was supposed to or not but I "conditioned" mine per the files at yahoo with a pumice stone, shaving lather, and a glass jar. It isn't nearly so rough anymore, but is still rough.
I don't know. Some of my razors seem to react well to it, getting to that hanging-hair sharp in a couple of strokes (which would have took at least 10 or 15 on a regular strop) and others do not like this strop at all.
I wonder what the manufacturer says about this one, or if anyone knows for sure where it sits. I am contemplating getting a dovo strop. So far the best strops I've had were a Jemico red russian and a George Genevesos (sp) strop.
John P

John,
I am always puzzled abou the pumice stone thing. I can understand that on a textured or rough strop as it basically sands the rough surface into a slightly smoother suede like finish. My #827 is still basically a smooth strop but no where near as smooth as any of the other common Illimnois or Dovo products like the #127, #206 and #361.

I was very pleased with the #361. Nice, almost sticky surface with plenty of "draw" against the blade, extremely thick too so it is easy to keep flat when stropping. Measures 2.5" x 24" without handles.

I just got a piece of the Hand American conditioned leather from David Uthe and made a strop from it. It has a much slicker surface, very hard, almost slippery. I think I will need to use the Fromm strop dressing on it to get any real effect from it.

The Jemico strops look interesting. I saw some locally but didn't handle them to see the texture or how flexible they are. What were your impressions of them. Is the Jemco Red Russian their high end strop?

Tony

Tony, I agree about the #361...it is a beautiful piece of work! Nice, thick, leather, well conditioned, and smooth. I did dress mine up a bit with Strop Dressing, as I wanted it more flexible, and with a tad more "draw" than it came with. I also worked it in with my palm, and used a round drinking glass to smooth it in a bit.

I am in love with it now! This will probably be my "primary" strop for the foreseeable future ...and move my Dovo down to number 2, except for the linen. I have NO idea what the linen that comes with the #361 is made of, but I tried to soak it in hot water and clothing detergent to soften it up (thought that maybe there was "sizing" in it) to no avail! The thing is still very, very stiff! I have ordered some TI Sharpening paste, and this linen might be a good fit if conditioned with that.

Tony,
Yes, I do believe the Jemico red russian is that company's high end strop. The leather is smooth, yet tacky, and thick. It seems to take no time at all to get great results with it. The one I have is of the loop type construction, with a handle at the bottom. The back side of the loop is linen, which seems much thinner and more flexible than most linen strops I've seen. I don't know if this is good or bad, I mostly used the leather. These are GREAT strops.
That said, I am now intrigued and considering adding an Illinois 361 to my collection. My poor Jemico had the bad luck of being one of the earlier strops I bought, and as such, I have sliced it and diced it a little much.
I also don't know what kindof fabric the Illinois "linen finish" strops are made of, I am leaning towards nylon. I doubt if it will ever "soften up"
Of course, I've been wrong before....
John P

John,
That sounds like the Jemico I saw. Nice, very red leather that even looked a little sticky for a good draw. The linen looked very lose weave as if it would be quite soft.
I saw it in an expensive knife shop in the mall. One of those places that once you ask to se something and it's out of the case they are determined not to let you leave without buying it. I thought maybe I could simply throw a 5 spot on the counter and they might let me cop a feel without the sales pitch <g>.

Tony

Tony,
I bought mine from a knife shop before I knew much about the different forums, or what strop is good to have etc etc. I think it cost me around 70 bucks, but its probably a lot cheaper from places online. I didn't have a Norton when I bought it, but at the time I would go from a rougher stone, like a swaty, and then a fine stone (the itsapeech-which I have lost for the moment :P) followed by the Jemico. I was getting razors which passed the hanging hair test (and shaved decent) without using paste or anything. I even had a Paki razor (a Simco) that I defended for awhile on the yahoo group, simply because I could get an edge on it with that strop. Of course, the edge never lasted long on that one, but thats another story.
John P

For your convenience, I'm reposting this helpful message (37386) made last year at the yahoo SRP forum. It contains a message directly from the manufacturer concerning the Illinois 827 strop.

Hal

-- In straightrazorplace@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jporkchop@h...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everybody, I was dying to know what the scoop on the 827 strop
> was
> > (it has sortof a rough finish leather) so I emailed the
> manufacturer
> > and asked a few questions about what order they recommended, as
> well.
> > For what its worth here is what the reply was:
> > Dear John,
> >
> > No problem on the questions - I'm glad to help.
> >
> > 1) The manufacturing process for the fabric strop impregnates it
> with
> > the abrasive. No additional care is required, and it should
retain
> its
> > abrasive properties for the life of the strop. Comparing a hone
> and a
> > fabric strop to grades of sandpaper, the hone would be coarse grit
> > sandpaper and the fabric would be the fine grit.
> >
> > 2) A razor develops small metal burrs and teeth along its blade
> when
> > it
> > is sharpened using either of the sharpening methods above. A
> leather
> > strop aligns and removes these small metal burrs and smoothes the
> > cutting edge. The coarse strop does a quicker and rougher job of
> this,
> > while the top-grain strop does a slower but finer job.
> >
> > 3) For order of progression on a full sharpening, use your hone,
> then
> > the canvas strop, then the coarse leather strop, and finally the
> > smooth
> > leather strop. Either or both leather strops can be used in the
> > process.
> > When giving a shave, strop with the smooth leather both before
and
> > after
> > the shave to keep the blade at it sharpest, and to keep it clear
> of
> > bits
> > of hair and debris.
> >
> > Hope this clears things up.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > FROMM INTERNATIONAL
> > 1919 Stanley Street
> > Northbrook, IL 60062
> > 800-323-4252 phone

Hal,
Interesting post. Sounds like Fromm is saying the linen side does have an abrasive in it which now answers the question as to whether the linen side has any effect in sharpening.
They seem to be saying the leather side is simply more coarse than the top grain leathers like the #361 and others so this would be an intermediary strop.
The linen side of both my 827 and my 361 look identical and so did the 206 I sold so I wonder if all their linem strops have abrasive in them.

Tony

Funny you found that one Hal,
that was me. (my yahoo signin is jpfaster1, but I got tired of typing that and changed it for this forum) I am not positive I learned as much as I wanted from their email, but it does seem to be alittle abrasive. My reading of it implies that the leather itself is abrasive, not sure how abrasive the nylon (I think) strop is. Perhaps it is mostly to clean particles off the edge from honing(?) the purpose of the linen has for quite awhile been debated on here.
John P

John,
My read says the fabric strop is impregnated during the manufacturing process while the leather is described only as being rougher than the top grain leather.
Maybe I will try talking to Frommand get the scoop!

Tony

Tony,
Go for it, tell us what you find out. That email is what I got in response to my inquiries, and I definitely think the leather is rough, perhaps abrasive; the strop itself doesn't SEEM to be abrasive any more than a nylon strap from a lawn chair or something.
Let us know what they say, it would be interesting to know.
John P

I just talked with a marketing rep over at Fromm, the makers of Illinois Strops. Their comments on the #827 were that is simply a different style, a Russian style as opposed to the smoother ones were are familiar with. He said if one knows how to use it properly it is an excellent strop. I asked about abrasive on the leather and he described it a simply being rougher and the ridges on the back just being part of the different "style". It was described as not being as popular but people used to one prefer it. I suggested it was possibly an intermediary strop to be used between the linen and fine leather strops and he suggest that it would be most suited to removing nicks and dings from the edge which then put our whole conversation into perspective :roll: <g>.

I stand by the intermediary idea myself as there are old time barber strops with 2 pieces of leather and one linen. The two leather components being marked rough and finish.

So, the real use/design of the #827 remains a mystery until we find a long time user, barber, etc.... that is familiar with it.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I just talked with a marketing rep over at Fromm... and he suggest that it would be most suited to removing nicks and dings from the edge which then put our whole conversation into perspective :roll: <g>.

---

:lol: LOL :lol:
You just know that person graduated from some Business/marketing trade school, found a job that he could live with and that paid the bills and probably has never so much as touched a razor that wasn’t part of a sales demonstration.
I wonder if he could have put you in contact with a customer that is “used to it” and “familiar with it” and knows “how to use it” since it was obvious that he was none of those.

Just a note....

I purchased an 827 from Ray in Late Dec or early Jan. I wasn't sure what I needed.
My strop from when I was a teenager was long gone along with my Wade & Butcher razor (LOL)

I have the strop in usable shape now. It has taken a long time and a lot of work.

First I rubbed into it, Cocoa Butter (paste not cream) several times, with my hand. This was left to dry for a couple of days.
Then I used Olive Oil (on the recommendation of the retired Italian barber who used to shave me once a month)... the secret he said....
"fill a jar with hot water and rub the strop up and down on a flat surface."
"Eventually" he said, "the strop will be as smooth as your cheeks after I shaved you."
Then I was to let it sit for a week and let the Olive oil evaporate a bit.
Well, the strop works well, but I still want one with a finer/smoother grain.Got any suggestions??

It does what it is supposed to though, and I am glad I visited him.

regards to all,
- Gramps

Gramps,
For smooth strops you have lots of choices. I have the rough #827 and a smooth #361. The #361 is a style with no handles. The leather is the same width and thickness right to the end and you just hold it flat between thumb and fingers. It is so thick it really does not need handles. 24" long x 2.5" wide. I got mine at www.norvabarbersupply.com , $33.

Now if you want an identical match to the #827 you can get the #127 which is the same size but with the smooth leather. Ray at Classic shaving sells them.

Tony

Gramps,

If you're looking for a new classic style barber strop, the 361 would also be my choice. Dovo makes nice strops too. Unlike the 361, they don't require any conditioning. Dovo makes one wide 3" Russian strop, but most of what they offer are thinner and shorter (1 3/4" x 16") than the classic barber strops.

The other option would be to keep an eye out for one on ebay. My favorite strops are two that I won on ebay, a old Llama Brand and a Red Imp. Both are classic barber style strops and are made from thick pliable horsehide (2 1/2 " X 24). Both required quite a bit of reconditioning work, but were well worth the extra effort.

Thanks fellas,
I'll be looking around a bit, leaning toward the 361.

- Gramps

Tony, I am familiar with the #361 as one of my several strops is a #361. The linen side is a little too stiff and coarse for my prferance, but it is a very good strop. I agree the leather is a little stiff and so I treated the back side with neatsfoot oil, which limbered it up quite a bit. I also have and sell a "no Name" strop that the leather is from Keith at HandAmerican and I really can't see much difference between that and the #361 as far as results go, except that the Handamerican leather strop is a little smoother, (glassier) and therefore provides a slightly smoother (keener) finished edge and therefore, I prefer to use this strop more than the #361.

Bob Keyes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I was wondering if the Illinois #827 strop has a specialized use. I just got one today from Bowman Beauty at a bargain price. The leather is a somewhat coarse texture yet smooth finish on the business side and has ridges cut or embossed into the back which makes it very flexable. The linen side is pretty standard fare.
In contrast my new Illinois #361 from Norva Barber Supply (another bargain) is a smoother finish, very thick and very stiff.

Anyone familiar with this one?

Tony Miller

www.bowmanbeauty.com
www.norvabarbersupply.com

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I have read lots of posts here and on the Yahoo branch about softening up a strop. I guess I am puzzled. Everyone feels they are too stiff when new so they work them over until limber and soft then they work hard to pull them taught and stiff when stropping so they are not limber......what am I missing here <g>.

Tony