Pasted Strops "The Experiment"

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Actually, I have been using pastes and sprays for several years now and they do a really nice job finishing the edges. Some better and more consistent with others. I have found that the edges last just as long as an edge un-treated and the "convexity" has never been an issue. Many people extent the life of the edge for a long time utilizing pastes and sprays.

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For absolute clarity, I certainly didn't intend to say that any of this would be wrong or bad practice in any way. A convex edge is not per se a bad thing, in my opinion. Just something to keep track of when the razor eventually needs rehoning. Getting a bevel flat again, is not problematic at all.
I personally have issues with the longevity of CrO pasted edges. Must be my beard. Whatever CrO adds, I seem to loose it during the very first shave.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I do not live under a microscope when honing.

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Actually I do.:) I check before honing, after (sometimes during) the bevel correction stage, after the finishing and after the test shave.

Best regards,
Bart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

For absolute clarity, I certainly didn't intend to say that any of this would be wrong or bad practice in any way. A convex edge is not per se a bad thing, in my opinion. Just something to keep track of when the razor eventually needs rehoning. Getting a bevel flat again, is not problematic at all.
I personally have issues with the longevity of CrO pasted edges. Must be my beard. Whatever CrO adds, I seem to loose it during the very first shave.


Actually I do.:) I check before honing, after (sometimes during) the bevel correction stage, after the finishing and after the test shave.

Best regards,
Bart.

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I forgot to say, that I don't need to have the last word and i am not right all the time.

I do really enjoy the art better than the science.

Thanks,

Lynn

Sorry Glen, I was thinking Glen but typing Lynn! Maui will do that to you. Maui has a way of sucking out everything so that you have to rebuild what was there.

I am finding this very exciting. I love seeing correlations of my experiences, new guy that I am, with people that have a large, solid foundation of experience.

Later,
R

Lynn,
You say you may not be right all the time but I am with you on this one. I have used pasted strops from day one, a wide variety of types, and have not had an issue with rounding either.

In my experience I find rigid leather paddles with a smooth surface leather are plenty hard and tend to not round an edge. Hanging pasted leather strops have given similar results for me if pulld taut and not allowed to sag. I am very sure your hard felt strop would achieve th same results and I should probably add one to my arsenal as well.

In theory a slack loom, or a padded paddle, or even possibly a thick bushy suede surface would have a better chance of rounding an edge because they stray from the hard/flat surface a hone would have but even here I have not actually had any issues.....its just a theory.

Technique is probably the largest contributor to rounding.....a slack strop, and a raised spine would both tend to cause an edge to round, adding an abraisive would likely speed up th process. I don't think it is the tool, as much as the user, rounding an edge, if it indeed even rounds.

As for over honing....maybe it is too many passes, and too frequent use, rather than th fineness of the abrisive that would cause that. I have not tried any real tests here but find that for me, 0.25 micron, used a bit too often seems to result in an edge that braks down ande feels rough to me. used sparingly in sems to give me a nice finish.....but then again, I have tough skin. Before using a straight I was a water only, against th grain, Trac II user....scrape, scrape, scrape....!

All that said........something must happn to an edge with paste use as in my experince, a real honing, on a hard stone does seem to bring an improvement to an edge used on pastes after a long time. To me both a hone and a pasted strop seeems to both be useful tools.

Tony

With a hard paddle (hardwood, vellum on tile, etc) the rounding doesn't seem to occur to any significant extent. With a softer substrate like leather or a hanger then rounding does occur, though I prefer to call it arching because it winds up looking like a gothic arch in x-section. You can see this when touching up with a slow hone like a translucent or spyderco uf, you get a short flat line that gradually moves towards the edge as you hone. If you don't have a high-power microscope you can also feel this happen when honing on these hones, especially if you're honing dry which seems to give a better feel for me even if that's not optimal for the hone.

I personally don't think a mild arching is a big problem, any more than multiple bevels which approximates an arched bevel anyway. Whether the arching becomes a problem really depends on the users technique and the type of strop used. With a hanger it's easy to use too much pressure or too much slack and induce too much arching, and this can make it difficult to maintain the edge until it's corrected (though this can be done with the same strop by pulling that sucker really tight and using very light pressure). Loom strops are better but since you have to loosen them between uses it's still troublesome keeping things consistent month after month - even a little bit too much slack or too much pressure puts inordinate amount of pressure on the edge and will cut the edge off in a hurry.

The best stropping surface for using pastes that I've found is heavy canvas, which is stout enough to resist compression and textured enough to hold a paste without caking up. Hardwood works great but won't hold much paste, so it cakes up quickly and has to be cleaned and relapped often. Vellum on tile is also great but vellum isn't easy to come by and is $$$ even for small sheets. Tony Miller once made me a paddle strop with horsehide on one side and cotton canvas on the other, and this has proven to be a real dandy for pasted stropping. Fortunately he gave me a long strip of canvas to use as a replacement in case it unravelled (hasn't been a problem) so I've been able to experiment with a variety of pastes and it has really been stellar with just about everything. Arching is minor and doesn't get any worse, and it is really hard to screw the edge up.

OK Sunday Sept 13th

15 laps .50 Diamond
20 laps .25 Diamond

Not needed at all, but I said I was going to every Sunday

Shaves for the week 5

No probelms at all

This has to be the most interesting (and only) experiment I have come across. And I feel like the results may actually affect my routine as soon as my straights and strops get here. I must say I'm excited to see how everything plays out

Sunday Sept 20th 15 laps .50 and 20 laps .25
Not needed

Tuesday 9/22/2009

Sorry guys only 3 shaves this last week

Stiill see no changes in the feel of the razor, one thing I did not count on was the fact that I am shaving with other razors fresh off the hones, so as soon as this edge skips a beat I will feel it...

Very intereting experiment

a couple of questions

when was the diamond spray last applied to the SRD Felt hanging strop

when will it be applied again if this experiment is still ongoing

since you are using a hanging strop and not a paddle strop on days when you use it to touch up the razor do you still do your 25/50 on a SRD-1 or do you do less regular stropping and if so is it less on the webbing, the leather or both?

Is 15 on the .50 and 20 on the .25 the normal progrssion you would take? that is more laps on the finer paste then the coarser paste

In your opinion for using the SRD Felt hanging strop of the available sprays and paste are .50 and .25 optimal for touch ups or would 1.0 and .5 be just as good and going to the .25 just be personal preference?

How does the diamond spray performance compare to diamond paste? and can diamond paste be used on a hanging type strop or is the paste best used on paddle strops?

I don't think there is a significant danger of rounding the edge unless you keep the strop very slack.