Cordovan vs. Shell vs. Horsehide?

So I'm pretty sure that all Shell is horsehide, but not all horsehide is shell? Right? Shell is the specific part on the buttocks that is thicker right?

And then what is the difference between either shell or horsehide and Cordovan? Or is Cordovan just the official word for shell? And are old strops Cordovan or is Cordovan a new/very special thing?

I was wondering the same thing.

I have had some shell horesehide, and that stuff seems to be the super-glossy zero draw stuff. Then I've recently aquired a couple of vintage "regular" horsehide that has a bit more draw, and latigo-ish qualities, if I may phrase it like that.

Any experts out there want to chime in?

I know shell is horsehide, I'm wondering if ALL horsehide is shell, or if shell is a specific horsehide.

Also, if cordovan is a tanning process- are vintage shell strops Cordovan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_cordovan
Wiki in this case is not so useful- it seems that Shell=Cordovan? but the article clears up that shell is a special kind of horsehide.

http://horween.com/index.php/leathers/
The info here confirms that not all horsehide is shell (only the butt- they have a diagram) and that cordovan is a very specific tanning process. (Horween is one of two cordovan tanneries in the world).

So does anyone know if old Shell strops are cordovan or not?

I know that Florshiem and Alden shoe mfgs make shoes referred to as 'shell cordonvan'.

Yeah I found that which is how I found the Horween company- that's where the shoe people get their stuff. Horween is in Chicago Illinois. How many strops have we seen Chicago stamped on? a lot. I'm just curious if any/many/all vintage shells are cordovan.

From what I understand, "shell" is no longer really horsehide at all, it is actually leather made from the thin layer of fine muscle under the skin at the butt of the horse. The skin is all shaved away from the muscle layer, leaving a smooth leather with no grain at all.

Hide, of course, is made from the skin.

Cordovan is apparently a leather made from the shell through a particular tanning process. I know that it's particularly difficult to make, resulting in the price.

This information comes though Tony Miller's posts on this forum and through my discussions with Naomi-san. Most of the reason for the high price of the Kanayama strops is the leather--he gets expensive cordovan leather, then buffs, treats and oils it until it is super soft and smooth...meaning even more man hours.

Shell is actually produced from a part of the subcutaneous muscle layer in horses, and other mammals, called the panniculus carnosus. Humans have a similar thin muscle called the platysma (in our necks, not our butts).

This muscle in horses is what allows them to flinch their hide to shoo off flies.

In humans, this same muscle layer (platysma) allows us the ability to make the WTF face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

In humans, this same muscle layer (platysma) allows us the ability to make the WTF face.

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The things you know scott:roflmao:roflmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Shell is actually produced from a part of the subcutaneous muscle layer in horses, and other mammals, called the panniculus carnosus. Humans have a similar thin muscle called the platysma (in our necks, not our butts).

This muscle in horses is what allows them to flinch their hide to shoo off flies.

In humans, this same muscle layer (platysma) allows us the ability to make the WTF face.

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Interesting...this might cause trouble when Kanoyama release their "Lil' Platysma" line of travel strops next spring.

I'll have to talk about them about how they're sourcing the leather...

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Originally Posted by JimR

Interesting...this might cause trouble when Kanoyama release their "Lil' Platysma" line of travel strops next spring.

I'll have to talk about them about how they're sourcing the leather...

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While you're at it can you get a price quote ? :beer1:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Shell is actually produced from a part of the subcutaneous muscle layer in horses, and other mammals, called the panniculus carnosus. Humans have a similar thin muscle called the platysma (in our necks, not our butts).

This muscle in horses is what allows them to flinch their hide to shoo off flies.

In humans, this same muscle layer (platysma) allows us the ability to make the WTF face.

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Ah, so when I round my edge on the strop, the strop can join me when I make my WTF face?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Shell is actually produced from a part of the subcutaneous muscle layer in horses, and other mammals, called the panniculus carnosus. Humans have a similar thin muscle called the platysma (in our necks, not our butts).

This muscle in horses is what allows them to flinch their hide to shoo off flies.

In humans, this same muscle layer (platysma) allows us the ability to make the WTF face.

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I nominate this as post of the year!

Informative, obscure knowledge brought to light,and a better understanding of my oft used WTF face? Do posts get any better than that?

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Wow and just the other week you were panicking that he might stop making strops. Guess that was a bit premature.

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Naomi-san only said that to Jim, to get Jim to make his WTF face, and then Naomi-san was gauging Jim's platysma flex as a possible source for his new travel strops.....:tameshigiri:

I have always understood that the old lables, Shell, horsehide, Cordovan and combinations off meant:

Horsehide:- any part of the horse able to be used.
Shell:- Horsehide rump pieces.
Cordovan:- Specially tanned Shell pieces, though I understood that any horsehide could be used with the Shell making the best Cordovan.

PuFF

This sounds about right according to that one website. Thanks guys.

I have an old vintage Master Barber Shell Horse strop, love it. The finished front side is slick as all get out, almost zero draw. The back side has a good draw and a velvet smooth feel. Love to have another, got this one from my dad. Sat on a shelf in the garage for many years.