How often do you Crox?

So, here's the deal. I Have a Bridle strop with the Webbed backing. I have a TM horsehide with the webbed backing, and a TM Latigo with the Wool Felt backing. A while ago I visited with Mr. Abrams, and left with a bag of goodies, and a whole lot of learning. One of these goodies was a Crox Crayon, and one of the learnings was that Crox + webbed fabric = success. Apparently the Webbing is great for Crox'ing. I also learned that Wool Felt and Diamond Spray get along just peachy. So, I am going to get Diamond spray (.50 Micron, also my Mr. Abrams recommendation, which I regard very highly by now *brownnose*) for my Wool Felt strop. Which leaves me with Bridle, Horsehide and Red Latigo for regular stropping, and Pasted TM nylon, plain SRD nylon, and diamond'ed TM wool felt. I use the SRD nylon for every day pre-stropping, and then rotate -based on mood- the Latigo and Horsehide, or the Bridle, sometimes bridle and horsehide.

My question is, to improve optimum time between honings, how often do I want to use the Crox Nylon, or the diamond Wool felt. I know this answer is mostly "when the blade feels dull, or catches, it needs a refreshing. When the crox/diamond doesn't cut it anymore, it needs a honing." I just want to know, personally, how often do you crox/diamond, and which do you prefer of crox/diamond... any reason for that preference?

Thanks, guys.
Cheers,
Jeremy

depends on the razor, the steel, personal pref, etc.


on most of mine, I used a CrO pasted strop every half dozens shaves for each razor (i have a big rotation, each razor gets used 6 times about every other month).

or if i feel the edge and it's not quite there for whatever reason, i'll hit the CrO. mostly just do it when it's needed.

Oh, something I forgot... How many laps is good with Crox/diamond spray? Like, can you "overhone" with just the pasted strops, or is that not much of a concern? I think someone told me that 10 laps is sufficient, and if that doesn't work, give it 10 more, up to 30, then it needs rehoning if that still doesn't do it.

Sound about right?

There is no set formula; paste when your razor feels like it needs it. Try 10 passes, then strop and shave. Do 10 more if you need it. Limiting yourself to 10 will prevent you from overdoing it, which is very easy on diamond and pretty easy on chrome.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

There is no set formula; paste when your razor feels like it needs it. Try 10 passes, then strop and shave. Do 10 more if you need it. Limiting yourself to 10 will prevent you from overdoing it, which is very easy on diamond and pretty easy on chrome.

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Alright, that makes good sense.... but... What's the difference between the Crox and the Diamond?

I'm not experienced with straights at all, but from what I understand from tool/knife sharpening, Diamond anything tends to cut MUCH faster than anything else.. Though, I don't have any experience with Chromium Oxide, so I wouldn't know how to compare the two, but still I imagine that the Diamond will still hone faster. Beings that it's at .5 micron, my suggestion would be to also pick up some .3 micron just to see how it works for your stropping style and your blade(s), especially if you find that the .5 diamond is working too fast, and that way you don't have to worry as much about over-honing and/or "convexing" your blade too much. But, then again, the .3 might work way too slow for you too, it all depends on the interaction between your style, the steel, the strop, and the powder/spray/paste/etc... All things aside, from what I understand, the .3 can give the bevel a nice smooth finish anyway, so it might be a good idea anyway..

I can tell you that some guys, me included, irritate from Diamond pastes and sometimes sprays when you get to the .25 level. Me, personally, I can do .50. Crox is a lot tamer on my face, it doesn't irritate me. I think the .25 makes the edge too keen. As previously stated, try 10 passes. Continuous use of any paste will ultimately lead to a rounded edge...So, do it sparingly. For me, when my blade starts to dull, I may use the .50 diamond spray on wool felt, or crox. the next time that razor dulls, it's hitting the rocks, for me the level would be a J-nat and see how it feels..

What's a J'nat?

Also, one thing I've seen... Diamond is generally preffered -this is from a demo I watched, so YMMV- as a followup to honing, and then crox is for maintenance in between honing... Is this viable, or is it mostly personal opinion/preference?

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Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

What's a J'nat?

Also, one thing I've seen... Diamond is generally preffered -this is from a demo I watched, so YMMV- as a followup to honing, and then crox is for maintenance in between honing... Is this viable, or is it mostly personal opinion/preference?

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A Jnat is a Japanese natural hone. As for when to use which paste, I don't really know. I do know that Lynn uses the diamonds after honing, and I'm sure that he has a reason (other than the bling factor). At Lynn's I used his honing routine and, no surprise, it worked extremely well. Today, I was feeling a little curious, so I tried some Chrome Ox after finishing 15 blades on my Asagi (a Japanese natural). I quite liked the edges, and Chrome Ox definitely works. I can't compare it to the diamond I used at Lynn's, though, because the hone progressions were totally different.

My understanding, which could well be wrong, is that diamond gives a more "aggressive" edge whereas chrome ox is a little "smoother." If I was to compare my edges today to those from at Lynn's (which is not a good comparison, as mentioned above), I would say diamond is more aggressive and chrome ox is smoother. But that's really not a great comparison.

I'd say the best thing to do is try both the diamond and the chrome ox on a bunch of blades and see which you prefer for what.

I'll work on it.. But, as of now, I only have a Dovo best quality, and a Gold Dollar :/

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Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

I'll work on it.. But, as of now, I only have a Dovo best quality, and a Gold Dollar :/

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First time you need a touchup on the Dovo, try the green. Need a touchup on the GD, try the bling. Second touchup on the Dovo - do the bling. Second touchup on the GD, try the green.

May not be the best, but it could tell you something. No purchase required (assuming you have some green and some bling).

Yes, Chrome Ox and Diamond are too difficult to type!

Creative :P

I have a Crox crayon, that I'm putting on my TM nylon, my Wool Felt TM strop is in the mail, and I'll be ordering the .5 SRD Diamond soon.

Guess I'm trying the "green" before the "bling" :P

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Originally Posted by zib

. . . Continuous use of any paste will ultimately lead to a rounded edge...So, do it sparingly. . .

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I recall reading - can't remember if it was the Wiki here, or maybe another forum - that paste was denigrated in general, because it rounds the edge to some degree even the first time you use it. The idea was that you should, ideally, simply go straight to the hones when the edge got to the point that stropping was not sufficient; the only alternative was to accept that the edge would be rounded by the paste, and be prepared for a long and highly aggressive honing session when it finally came to it, which would require taking off far too much steel to get the round edge ground back down and so was considered damaging.

What is the consensus? Should you only hone and never paste? Should you mostly hone and rarely paste? Should you regularly strop with paste, then re-hone at longer intervals? Which of these gives the best edge (persistently over time between re-sharpening sessions)? Which gives the greatest net blade wear: frequent light honing of the flat edge, or infrequent but extensive honing of the rounded edge?

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

I recall reading - can't remember if it was the Wiki here, or maybe another forum - that paste was denigrated in general, because it rounds the edge to some degree even the first time you use it. The idea was that you should, ideally, simply go straight to the hones when the edge got to the point that stropping was not sufficient; the only alternative was to accept that the edge would be rounded by the paste, and be prepared for a long and highly aggressive honing session when it finally came to it, which would require taking off far too much steel to get the round edge ground back down and so was considered damaging.

What is the consensus? Should you only hone and never paste? Should you mostly hone and rarely paste? Should you regularly strop with paste, then re-hone at longer intervals? Which of these gives the best edge (persistently over time between re-sharpening sessions)? Which gives the greatest net blade wear: frequent light honing of the flat edge, or infrequent but extensive honing of the rounded edge?

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I had not heard this, and it is a really good point... I know that a lot of members -Lynn included- use paste to put time between honings, hell, Lynn is the one who gave me my crox crayon, and you don't tell a kid fire is bad then give him a lighter... I'd guess that pasting is a good in-between, but don't paste an edge back more than 3-4 times? that's just a guess...

I know my main routine will be Norton 4/8k (maybe a 1k if the bevel gets a beating) to a Naniwa 12k, then a Diamond sprayed strop, then Latigo, then Horsehide, whenever I need to hone, and using the Crox in between to increase time between honings...

Hopefully that sounds good....

I think your be surprised how long cro or .5 diamond keeps your razor going. i would start with 5 laps and 5 again to be on the safe side plus you will learn how many laps your razor needs with out going over board causing rounding or even dulling the razor. The idea of paste is it s the easiest way to main tain a razor unlike honing which takes much practice and is harder to master. If the edge does round it won't take long to on your 4k/8k to get the bevel faces flat again i dout you will need 1k unless you chip the edge. when you need a touch up you could always try your norton out by touching up on the 8k try 5 laps and repeat untill your happy the 8k works realy well onve your shaving again of 8k and your happy add just 10 laps on your .5 diamond paste and see what the shave is like if its a little harsh add 10 laps on cro ox and compare at least this way if you start at 8k for touch up you are keeping the bevel flat in time you me need to do a small pyramid for touch ups lynn recomends 3/3 1/3 1/5 then cro ox etc this way your learning how to use your hone plus paste its up to you try and get a practice blade a DA is cheap enough. you have to experimant its the only way you will learn the differances . oh btw i use the crayon on nylon loom and i have tryed the powder form but i have to say i actualy find the crayon stuff is the better it works very well the one you have is the one that livi uses on his razors and he finishes with about 25 laps on utube i counted when he was honing a razor

Bump. Been reading these crayon threads.

I criss-crossed a 2 7/8" poly webbing strop with CrOx .5 crayon with 2" spacing, approx. and immediately discovered I'd applied WAY too much (by overpressuring the crayon when rubbing it on). After removing most of it I started taking 10 passes on my razor about every two weeks. As my stropping skills improved I've found five passes once every two, three or even four weeks nicely refreshes any of my razors to sharp and smooth. I refreshed the crayon application once in six months; the stuff works very well. When it fails to make for a good shave an 8K Norton brings things back just fine.

If there is a shortcoming in this method I haven't figured it out yet.

Well-timed "bump" for me: I'm about to add a Whipped Dog balsa strop (0.5 CrO on one side, 0.25 FeO on the other) to my current Norton-4k/8k-only routine. Thanks for the report!

I use green chromium oxide paste 7-10 laps after my 12k ... Then once a razor comes into rotation i do 5 laps On it and then my regular stropping... I do this because my rotation is one blade a week ... So it takes a bit more than two months to see the same razor again and although i keep my razors oiled and in a dry case with silica... Two months its a long time ...

Use CrOx on a cotton belt webbing strop. I rotate razors every couple days.
I've been using the paste everyday ~20passes before I use the leather, before I shave.
Better shave.
( and yes, my honing probably isn't up to profession standards).

i typically will finish on my Naniwa 12k...then i do about 20 laps on the CrOx balsa strop from larry at Whipped Dog...followed by about 20 laps on the FeOx side and that well typically get my edge beautifully sharp, yet very comfortable...then i just strop it up about 50 laps on my SRD Premium I hanging strop...and finish with another 50 laps on the smooth, supple English Bridal leather of my modular paddle strop

The only time I use Chrome Ox is right after a honing, it is pretty much unnecessary after that in my opinion.

I use Crox once every..ummm..well heck I know I used it once or twice before. So I guess I use it once or twice every three years.