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Looking for opinions! I dont particularly care for stroping on the linen side of strop first...I dont care for the feel of razor on linen (no drag)but I understand the purpose to be to warmup the blade before stroping on the leather side...Is it possible to accomplish same objective substituting the linen with a courser grade of leather? What effect does linen have on prepingthe blade to get it really sharp?
My wide strop doen't have a linen side and it works fine without it.:)
My understanding is the linen realigns the edge of the blade as well as warming it up but I would imagine a rough leather would do the same but it would have to have properties similar to the linen so unless you had the reverse side of your strop the proper consistancy you would have to buy another strop so why not just use the linen which usually comes with a leather strop anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarman
I have found the linen side to be a curiosity. Whenever I try using it I only succeed in ruining the edge of my razor...
I am curious as to how many use the linen side versus those that do not. Am I the only one that lacks the skills required to use the linen side properly?
Mark.
If the linen doesn’t work for you, you’re under no obligation to use it.
Having said that, I find it indispensable in keeping my razors sharp. I don’t know how or why but it does work for me.
The FDA has not evaluated these statements.
Kind regards &c,
LG Roy
I like using the linen. I liken it to being in the bull pen, and hitting the leather like stepping onto the mound. It may warm up the razor, but it also warms up my arm!
RT
The leather strop finishes. A linen strop with white paste sharpens. It offers the equivalent of a very light honing. I don't think a plain linen without paste does much of anything, IMHO. If you have a plain linen, I'd recommend getting a some white paste (you'll need to use a fair bit when applying it for the first time) and work it in thoroughly with you the palm of your hand. Use the linen side only when required.
Hal
I use the linen as well to no adverse effect. The few times I have gone without it has not been at all bad however. Six of one ... Just my preference I guess. Maybe we'll have to try a new experiment on this to see what benefit there might be in using or omitting linen.
X
Perhaps this is my problem. I have been trying to use the linen strop plain without paste. I will try it with the paste and see what happens. :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by halwilson
Mark.
I use mine extensively, usually to dry the razor after shaving. I like to use it before stropping sometimes too. I can't tell you that it has any effect though. I applied fireplace ash to mine and it got real shiny for about a week, now I'm not so sure. If you have used it in the past and ruined your edges, stop using it. There are different "linens", not everyone is discussing the same material. I think there is some canvas out there masquarading as linen.
Hey X,Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
What type of linen do you use? Is it plain or pasted. The Dovo strops (my favorite) are pasted whereas the linen that comes with Illinois strops have some compound embedded in the cloth that feels almost like plastic. It's a very aggressive strop. With my old favorite Llama brand strop I use a Merit solid silk linen strop that I got NOS from the "Booklady" on ebay. I have applied additional white paste to it. Works wonderfully. This is what I use, but of course, some don't use linen at all, while some use linen all the time. To each is own.
Hal
Hal
Hal
Hal
I tried your suggestion about using white paste on the linen strop. IT WORKED!!! I was amazed how well it worked. Thanks for the information!Quote:
Originally Posted by halwilson
Mark.
Experiment, did you say experiment?Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
Actually I've always used a plain linen without paste. Just one of those things you do without trying to analyze it. I don't think of it as part of the sharpening process just blade preparation for the strop.
It's the plain linen from the Illinois 361 strop. I find it feels quite aggressive as well, but unless I lift the spine, I have failed to notice any adverse effects from using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by halwilson
X
X
X
X ;)
It shold be mentioned that sharpening with a pasted hanging strop will round hte bevel on the edge and should likely be avoided.Quote:
Originally Posted by mslovacek
X
XMAN,Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
I am a little confused. :confused: Chalk is much, much softer than steel. As such, it has little cutting power. Are you sure it is able to round the bevels edge? I am not trying to act like a jerk, I just have some doubts. I could see this with red paste, however, since iron oxide is harder than steel. :shrug:
From recent experience, I found that my razor gave a better shave after being stropped on a chalk pasted linen strop. In addition, the razor seemed to take to the leather strop all the better. Before, the linen strop always fouled the razors edge.
I am a newbie, and what is reported is based off of my observations... I liked the shave I got today. Perhaps this is a case where practice out performs theory??? :shrug:
The question about linen's usefullness has been around a long time. By using either the linen or the coarse leather you are cleaning the razor and straightening out/aligning the fin.
About 2 years ago(?) over on the Yahoo SRP forum one of the members who prepared very fine metalographic specimens theorized that the linen generated sufficent heat to "melt" the sides of the fin and thus make the fin smoother ande sharper.
Since this could not be precisely measured ( he did not have a SEM microscope available) it was largely discounted.
There has since been another study of sharpening where they have used a powerful microscope and the pics are quite interesting. They suggest that stropping does more than just align the fin. There was some metal moved around. This suggests the possibility of a smoothing effect on the side of the fin.
I use either a linen/leather or a rough leather/fine leather approach to stropping. I do find that there are different linens and also different leathers. You really have to experiment to find what you like.
With respect to using chalk on linen. One of the older members of this group used it for years with good results.and many men before us have used it with good results. Just be sure not to use it everyday. Use it only when needed.
By the way, it does not matter which substance is harder. Have you ever noticed the smoothness of a river rock?
Hope this helps,:)
Well said Randy!
Hal
If the chalk is sharpening the steel it must be cutting somewhat, no? Here's the image Nenad used to show us what he meant a few months back. You're probably right about the chalk being soft and therefore cutting less or slower as we say, but I think the principle is the same. If the chalked strop is having an effect on the edge, it must be having this effect:Quote:
Originally Posted by mslovacek
http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...WZC/pastes.jpg
X
I recently took the advice of Tony Miller and started stropping 30 times on the linen ( dry) then 30 on the leather ( a good fast bridle leather from Tony) Before I started this I would have some really excellent shaves and a few would pop up that were not so good and my face was left kind of raw. I always had to use an alum block. Since I started doing what Tony does I have not used the alum and have had 100% perfect shaves with no irritation. I have a friend who is also doing this with fail proof results
I love my flax linen (the REAL deal) strop, and always use it before I hit the horse butt. I also have a cotton "linen" strop which I used prior to getting the linen strop, and both work just fine for me. But the flax linen has a tactile character that I prefer that's just not there with the cotton fabric.
BTW: I use my fabric strops "nekkid". I think that I'll leave them that way, and will get other strops for pasting.
As Randy said, years ago, first it cleans the razor. Look at your bevel before you strop it on leather. You will see dried soap, bits of skin, blood and oxidation/rust.
If you do not remove it, it will imbed on and into your leather finishing strop. Ever see those magnified photos with deep stria on the bevels? I believe much of that comes from grit impregnated leather strops. Wipe your leather strop with a lightly dampened clean paper towel, that’s the same stuff. Doubt you can ever remove, all of it.
That and Linen polishes the bevel and edge. Try stropping your bevels on linen between changing stones in your honing progression. Your edges will be straighter and will finish quicker. Try it.
Plain linen and canvas are very effective and produce a fine polished edge.
Linen is an often over looked finishing tool, perhaps those old guys really knew a thing or two.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFDavis11
My "linen" trousers are a very different material to the stuff on my strop, its much thicker for a start but even then it feels very different. The stuff on my strop has a kind of waxish feel to it !
I do use it though before the leather and after a shave and swear the blade does feel keener after the linen stropping (if indeed it is even linen). Ive not been at this game for very long though so don't take my word for it :shrug:
I've done both - I've had solely leather strops in the past which have worked fine, and I have a custom made Neil Miller strop which has both leather and linen and thats just "The One" AFAIC. After stropping on that you can just about split atoms with the edge!
IME I get better edges with using both, but I dont think its a must do.
I think this is possible. The prep leather should be selected carefully and used much less though.
I was having a few shaves now and then that left my face raw. I sent an email to the world famous strop maker ( Tony Miller) he answered that he always strops 30 times linen, then 30 on leather. I have not varied from that since that day and have nothing but perfect shaves. I am a believer in the linen
The pros (barbers) used linen/canvas in their stropping regimen. just sayin' :)
I started using straights back in the 60s and I was shown to use the linen side with a light application of chalk on the linen. I was told also that I should use the leather side to finish and that it was acceptable to use a light application of black paste on the leather side.
To this day I still maintain a cowhide strop with Dovo black paste but use it only occasionally when I think a little friction is called for.
i have a combination linen-leather strop
I use linen strop (4-6 passage for face) before use leather strop, in this way can remove eventual micro-oxidation( i have many straight razors...so There is long time before I use the same razor) and bit soap's residues.
IF i want revitalize a razor use it on linen strop for 30-40 passage.
linen-leather strop
With modern manufacture they can treat and weave to make steel wool feel like fine fabric. The feel of your strop is because it was coated with some material to give it that feel. Also the weave in a linen strop is very dense. They would never weave clothing material like that. maybe a couple hundred years ago they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1011
I have a question perhaps someone would offer fact or opinion to...I've been shaving with SR's for around 7/8 years and have made the vast majority of my new purchases from SRD, including my strop, therefore the fabric strop is the web material & consequently I've have never used another type of fabric strop. For those of you who have, 1. What is your opinion of the web-strops the pluses/minuses? 2. By fact or opinion do you prefer linen, does it offer a property/result superior to the web material or 6-to one 1/2 dozen to the other.
Finally, what are the preferences for CrOx application....Web-Strop, Felt, Linen, Basswood, etc. and when refreshing...how many passes do you use. I saw this video on Youtube, a fellow who calls himself Doc. (I don't remember), who is selling 3-levels of diminishing micron grade sprays for taking a blade beyond CrOx...each has a fabric covered glass-plate strop on which you spray the material and then this guy does 100 laps on each. He shows very high magnification comparison photos between the CrOx, to the 1st spray, 2nd and 3rd, ending with a virtual mirro, (no scratch pattern) finish. Of course, how good does it have to be...but, knowing the recommendations of 4-10 strokes for CrOx edge touch-ups...the sequential 100 laps he wa doing I thought curious, but, must admit, the photos were amazing. Here is the link to this guy with the sprays referenced in the immediate preceding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHRVOIHzjv4
Thank you for your time in rely.
So, it depends what you are trying to achieve. Traditionally the “Linen” strop was use to clean the blade and edge prior to stropping on leather. Linen is mildly abrasive and some vintage linen strops were pasted with a variety of natural abrasives, chalk, lead, graphite and others to provide a bit of keenness.
Modern “linen” substitutes perform much the same function, with modern materials. Good Vintage linen is somewhat abrasive and will provide a bit of keenness, but if used for cleaning, most any linen substitute will work just fine.
A pasted strop is a whole other animal, and there are any number of abrasives and of the smallest nano grit sizes. Each will provide their own results and substrate can alter the results.
Chrome Oxide has been the go to paste for comfort, at .5 micron (30K) for years. It is truly a matter of personal preference if one needs “more” and finer pastes and sprays. They are all different and produce equally different results, depending on if you are looking for comfort or keenness.
CBN is certainly capable of polishing a bevel to a nano grit level that will remove any visible stria at 400X and resulting in super straight edge. Is it for everyone? No, and do you need it? That is a question for you to answer.
There are endless number of threads in the stropping forum on paste and pasted strops, and the same variety of opinions.
Dr. Matt is a member here and has done a lot of research on honing and pasted stropping, he is also very passionate in his methods and shares his finding freely with others.
I am new to SR shaving but, I have used my canvas side before my leather side before every shave. I do approx. 20-30 laps on canvas then about double that on the leather. The one time I did stray I felt like I did not get the quality shave I had before. Was this true or was I just inconsistent with fundamentals?? I know that after I have used both every time and seem happy with the result. Maybe it is a placebo of sorts. I have been wondering about adding a paste because that is what is on my board strop that I use for pocket knives. Then I figure why mess with what I have going? I do my canvas laps then my leather and shave and I am happy so I will leave it. Plus I kinda like the zip noise the canvas makes:p just a newbs 2 cents. shave on gents
I watched a video of Mastro Livi using a 4K stone, cuticle, linen with chromium oxide on it then leather. From start to finish it doesn't take him more then 5 minutes. I have 3 of his razors and they come shave ready and really hold an edge and shave as smooth or smoother then my Aust, Dovo or other razors. Very few laps after he sets the bevel. Murray Carter does pretty much the same thing. It appears these men who work with metal and sharpen blades take a much different approach to setting a bevel and honing. Less is more. I very rarely use chromium oxide on linen and find a Suehiro Gokumyo 20k will give me just as smooth an edge that lasts longer..
Pretty Shure I saw that same video, he was refreshing an edge, as with anything, it depends on what you start with. If the edge is straight, yes you can set a bevel on a 4k rather quickly, but I do believe it took longer than 5 minutes.
I have seen several Levi honing videos and he spends much more time honing an edge off the grinder. He does it exactly the same way we all do and takes about the same amount of time. It is not about how fast one can hone, it is about the quality of the edge.
If you’re not shaving with a razor you can hone it pretty quickly, be careful believing what you see on YouTube, I once saw a guy hone a razor on a brick…
I agree speed is not the factor. There is no substitute for experience and technique. That's the beauty of this, each person has their own way of doing it and must find the right tools to fit their procedures. I really like experimenting with new stones, strops and techniques in search of the perfect edge.
Considering all of the linen strops made and (apparently) sold not only to the lay public, but also to professional barbers, throughout the history of barbering at least from the mid 19th century until now, either stropping on linen has some legitimate purpose that may have been forgotten or, it's useless and represents one of the best marketing scams ever at worst or faulty thinking at best. Any other options?
I can't speak to linen, since I've never tried it, but after a couple of years on my SRD strop with the nylon webbing, I swapped that side out for wool, also from SRD. I loaded it with cRo2 and use it every few weeks. It makes a noticeable improvement.
Same with a badger brush. Why badger?
I think it's well accepted Linen is the best media for prestropping. The cloth has the right combination of properties to do the best job. The same with badger. Even though boar has its devotees badger is considered the classic and best media for lather production and application.