Why is my brand new Livi Regrind putting scratches in my strop?

Recently purchased a Livi New Grind from SRD. I was pretty stoked when I received it - gorgeous, like a work of art.

I was looking forward to having my first shave with it, and I went about my normal pre-shave stropping ritual on my Kanayama 60000. 40 strokes on the linen, then I turned the strop over to the leather and started stropping. Business as usual. However, after about 10-15 strokes I noticed something was wrong. There seemed to be small marks appearing at the top and bottom of each stroke. I slowed down, but at the same time I was thinking "Nah, it can't be. Just my imagination." So I continued. 10 strokes later and I thought, "Holy $#@! Every stroke is putting tiny scratches in my strop!"

So here's the deal. The Livi has etchings in the spine. The scratches are only located at the top and bottom of the stropping surface. So it must be those little "X's", right? But they aren't very deep, and they don't feel rough at all to my fingers. I really don't use pressure at all when stropping, I'm at a loss as to why this has happened.

The question is - is this normal? There are many Livis like this out there in the straight shaving world, they can't all be scratching up their owners' strops. Has anyone experienced something similar? Is it just that the Kanayama is a very "sensitive" strop? Is there anything I could do to stop this? I haven't had this razor for too long but I would hate to have to return it, it really is a beauty.

Here are some high-res photos of the damage. Keep in mind that the strop is only a few weeks old, and I haven't experienced anything like this with my other razors. I know that it in no way renders the strop useless, but still. If this happens every single time I strop, what will my poor strop look like in a year?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5204.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5187.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5188.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5193.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5194.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5195.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5196.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5197.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5198.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40321/IMG_5199.JPG

I get the same thing from every razor that has a tooled spine. Really doesn't matter what the strop is. You should see what a heavily tooled spine will do. Even the rounded Henckels spine with the tooling gives me marks on all my stops including my Kanayama's. I sold my Kanayama 90000 because considering what I paid for it, I couldn't bear to put any scratch marks on it. Would have killed me.

Have fun,

Lynn

It's most likely the etched spine. My Bismarck w/filed spine does the same thing, scratchs up my latigo where it is turned on the spine. If it makes you feel better you can try taping the spine with scotch tape before stropping.

may be a rough finish on those X´s

maybe some kind of polish on a cloth could make them less agressive
or something else

if that blade is attatched using microfasterners you could get someone to put in a tumbler
(i seem to recall that dulls edges and round corners)

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I get the same thing from every razor that has a tooled spine. Really doesn't matter what the strop is. You should see what a heavily tooled spine will do. Even the rounded Henckels spine with the tooling gives me marks on all my stops including my Kanayama's. I sold my Kanayama 90000 because considering what I paid for it, I couldn't bear to put any scratch marks on it. Would have killed me.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Sorry to hear about the scratches but a + 1 with Lynn's post,as with those carved spines that is the nature of the beast. That is why it is nice to have one strop dedicated to those once you find out the hard way. I haven't sold my Kanayama 90000 yet but I'm thinking about it. I haven't stropped a razor on it yet either. :boohoo:

I just read this same post on another forum.

I can only say that anytime you have a tooled spine, regardless of the strop, it is going to show marks and scratches. It is no fault of either the razor or the strop, but as said, the nature of the beast.

Have fun,

Lynn

+1 with what was said above. I get the same thing with all my worked spine razors. I learned to ignore it.

Wow, that's really a bummer. So this is just the nature of all engraved spines? Why would anyone ever make a razor that does that do a strop! :confused:
I guess for those with multiple strops it's not a problem, but I've only got one at the moment. I'll try some metal polish first, and see if that helps at all.

600-2000 grit wet-r-dry sandpaper if you want to actually solve the problem for good... Be careful how you do this as you only want to smooth the rough spots. nothing more, use the highest grit that will smooth it up...

The front corners of the big Friodurs are notorious for this too...

It's also probably because it is brand new. I have had a similar problem with the scrollwork on an Ellis, but never with vintage blades with worked backs. Time and stropping round out the sharp edges in time. You can try to accelerate this process with different methods, just be careful.

OTOH, make that your default strop for worked spines and now you have a perfect excuse to order a brand new SRD Premium 4 long. :)

I had two Livi's that did the very same thing. I basically did what everyone else suggested, I had a dedicated strop for those razors :) Like Lynn and others have said, its because of the work on the spine.

UPDATE: PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone stop what you are doing right now and give "Thanks" to janivar123!

I sat down with some metal polish and a roll of paper towels and polished the spine of that blade like it was my job. A full hour later, I went back to my strop and tested it out - no more scratches! Not a single one. I even went crazy, tried to make a sawing motion with the spine of the razor, and it caused not a single blemish on the surface of that beautiful leather.

So thanks again to janivar123, you have saved my strop!

Like Ryan says, tape the spine, The 'slack' in the strop should accomodate the miniscule tape thickness.

Regards,
Neil

I agree with Lynn and the other guys, my Bismarck has a worked spine and that scuffs up the strop a bit as I use it.

Glad you got it sorted out! :)

I even manage to scuff some of my strops without a worked spine. :gaah:

to bad it wont work on goldwashed spines

glad it worked out for you, was starting to suspect it might not work

For whatever it's worth, if it's just marks on the strop and not literal scratches that effect the smoothness of the leather it really doesn't matter. Strops are meant to be used and one can expect it to look that way after a while. My go-to strop has marks all over it, but it doesn't make a difference in terms of the results I get- I still love it. This is all my opinion though.

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Originally Posted by huntmol

UPDATE: PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone stop what you are doing right now and give "Thanks" to janivar123!

I sat down with some metal polish and a roll of paper towels and polished the spine of that blade like it was my job. A full hour later, I went back to my strop and tested it out - no more scratches! Not a single one. I even went crazy, tried to make a sawing motion with the spine of the razor, and it caused not a single blemish on the surface of that beautiful leather.

So thanks again to janivar123, you have saved my strop!

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I don't suppose you took before and after shots of the spine did you? (Edit- I see the before shots now!)
What polish did you use?

I would love to see the blade and strop you are talking about.

-Rob

Truly sorry this happened to you. This is one of the reasons that I like the plain razors without the worked spines. As cool as the worked spines looked, I was worried that they would damage the strop. I think the tape idea is a good one if you are not able to purchase multiple strops. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by sicboater

I don't suppose you took before and after shots of the spine did you? What polish did you use? I would love to see the blade and strop you are talking about.
-Rob

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Hey Rob!
I used Master Formula Metal Gloss. I got it at a boat show, and it works great on pretty much anything I've tried it on. As you can see, the spine looks exactly the same, it's just shinier now :rofl2:

And luckily the strop suffered only superficial damage, so now the Livi & Kanayama are the best of friends!

Man, you guys sound like these "old women" on the watch forums. They buy a new watch and the first thing they do is remove the bracelet or original strap and put another on so the original gets no wear and then they fret over every tiny mar on the watch.

Razor's and strops are supposed to be used. The marks give it character and make it individual to fit the user. If I see a razor or strop that looks pristine I think, man that guy never uses it.

The only exception are the Kanayama strops. Their not supposed to be used. You display it and every so often just fondle it.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Man, you guys sound like these "old women" on the watch forums. They buy a new watch and the first thing they do is remove the bracelet or original strap and put another on so the original gets no wear and then they fret over every tiny mar on the watch. Razor's and strops are supposed to be used. The marks give it character and make it individual to fit the user. If I see a razor or strop that looks pristine I think, man that guy never uses it.

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I agree with you that our straights and strops should not be coddled, and that all "tools" such as these will show wear after a while, but these are two brand new products! My Kanayama is only a few weeks old, and before this incident, I had stropped a few different razors on it, and none of them left even a single mark on the surface of a stop.

So one day I buy a brand new (and very expensive) razor. The first thing I do is strop it, and after 20-30 laps the stop gets scratched up like nobody's business. That's basically half of my stropping routine, and it shows dozens of scratches on the top and bottom parts of the strop. They aren't really that bad, but again - this was from just half of my normal stropping routine. What if I use this razor every day for a few months? What will it look like then? I am very happy that the metal polish fixed the whole issue.

This is the first razor I have ever owned with any type of decoration on the spine, so I did not know that this was normal. How was I supposed to know? I think that anyone would be surprised if something like this happened to them. It's great that SRP exists - I am very thankful to have so many helpful individuals just a few clicks away, and as it turns out the problem was easily solved, so I am very glad that I posted this thread.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

600-2000 grit wet-r-dry sandpaper if you want to actually solve the problem for good... Be careful how you do this as you only want to smooth the rough spots. nothing more, use the highest grit that will smooth it up...

The front corners of the big Friodurs are notorious for this too...

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Now that is a heavy hand.... but it would work.
The 2000 wet/dry should be enough.

I was going to suggest time on the old
but serviceable pasted strop in the closet.
A couple hundred, fifty at a time buzzing strokes
on some 0.5 diamond or CrOx may calm it down too.

Never toss an old strop unless your name is Lynn and then
keep me in mind as the target. :shrug:

Nice looking razor . If it is just light scuffs or even scratches the old palm of the hand every day for awhile will probably blend them in with the rest of the strop after awhile.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Now that is a heavy hand.... but it would work.
The 2000 wet/dry should be enough.

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Actually, I was rather surprised that his was so mild, and so easily remedied, from the initial post I thought he actually had a real problem... Most of the time the 2000-1500 will fix stuff like that but with the worked spine I really thought he was going to have to go lower and remove a file burr.... Just goes to show what I perceived as a strop shredding problem from the post, was actually minor scuffs :)

Edit:
But I also just realized that if you missed the instruction in there that he might have also...

600-2000 grit wet-r-dry sandpaper if you want to actually solve the problem for good... Be careful how you do this as you only want to smooth the rough spots. nothing more, use the highest grit that will smooth it up...

Hmmmmm Might have to make those more clear next time, Thanks ...

It's like a new car. Once you get your first scratch you've been done a favor other wise you just keep freting about it. So the earlier the better in my view.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

It's like a new car. Once you get your first scratch you've been done a favor other wise you just keep freting about it. So the earlier the better in my view.

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Very true, actually now that this happened I'm no longer worried about when I eventually get my first nick in this strop

As I've been following this thread all I could think about was if I ever purchased a worked spine razor and what it would do to my Kanayama. *shudders*

So, just last night I decided to revisit my Dovo Micarta that has an etched spine. Now my Kanayama has a nice zebra look to it. lol I can't see where it caused any damage to the strop. This doesn't happen when I use my SRD red latigo strop. I guess the Kanayama is just soft enough that little things appear.

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Originally Posted by Logistics

As I've been following this thread all I could think about was if I ever purchased a worked spine razor and what it would do to my Kanayama. *shudders*

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Same thoughts going through my mind. I've caught myself worrying (just a little) about the occasional tiny drop of water that will make the journey from the sink to the leather of the strop nearby...had to make myself snap out of it. Also had to move the strop away from the sink :rofl2:

Huntmol,
Looks like you have good taste judging by those photos. The strop that I am learning on has a lot of " character " to it, thanks to me trying to perfect my stropping skills. Honestly I am getting better though.