Question about CrOx and touch ups.

Gentlemen,

I have encountered something that I have not encountered before, and I hope that some of the more senior shavers will be able to shed some light on this.

I own two SRD's a PI with hard felt, and a PIV with webbing. I also own a filly covered in CrOx. After reading that the hard felt works very well with Crox, I sprayed some of the SRD bottle on it, let it dry, etc. The reason I've done this is that the "touchups" on the filly didn't seem to be "touchups" at all. There was no difference in the razor.

So, a couple days a go I took two razors to the felt on the PI. Did 8 laps on the Crox, and then stropped normally (35 web, 35 PIV, 35 PI).

I opened one of the razors this morning and shaved with it, and it felt much more dull than it did before. I pulled out the loupe to look for a jagged edge or a rolled one. No such thing.

Nothing changed in the stropping, except for the CrOx. Beard prep and lather were consistent too.

Is it possible (??) that 8 laps is too much, and that my razors need one or two shaves to get back to normal? The same way that the first shave with a DE blade is sometimes the worst?

Thanks for the help, and happy Monday. Only four more days until the weekend!

Maxi

If you applied too much paste its quite easy to overcook the edge, or if the razor was basically shave ready and you uised a paste that could have a detrimental effect on the edge as well. Its also possible that you dulled the edge with poor stropping, either on the pasted strop or your daily one. Its easy to do..!

When you say the razor was dull do you mean it wasnt removing hair? Or did the edge feel harsh on your skin?

Try doing lots of stropping strokes on your daily strop (like 100 or something) and see if that brings the edge back. Its possible to sometimes strop an edge back to life.

Chro2 will not dull the edge. doesn't matter 8 laps or 50. it is very fine and takes more time to sharpen(kind a ) edge.
if you are saying razor edge dulled Stuart is right about the reasons and how to fix.
(i hope you made back strokes )
gl

Stubear,

It felt harsh on the skin. Similar to the way a razor feels when you're honing it and it needs one or two more conservative pyramids.

I've not had an issue stropping before, which is why I posted the question to begin with. I've been able to keep all my blades completely sharp and comfortable.

Thanks,
Maxi

Harsh on the skin can mean a few things. Either the blade isnt honed enough and feels rough as a result, its been honed with too much pressure which has left a rough edge or it has been overhoned and the edge has failed slightly.

All of these things will lead to a rough feeling edge and a poor shave.

From what you say about it feeling similar to needing more honing, I would start out doing 10 light X strokes on the 8k and go from there. Be sure to give it a good stropping as well!

From the sound of it, my comment might not be relevant, but I'll share it.

When I started honing, and actually got a razor right, I was amazed that it did not "feel sharp" on my face. I swiped it down my cheek and thought, "Was that the spine or the edge?" But the clean swipe, the whiskers in the lather on the blade, all meant the razor was shaving. It was my first experience of a truly "smooth" razor that I'd honed myself. What I had previously thought "felt sharp" was actually an edge that was not ready to shave with.

From what you say, this likely is not your issue, but for me, it felt wrong when I actually had finally got it right!

"Was that the spine or the edge?" But the clean swipe, the whiskers in the lather on the blade, all meant the razor was shaving. It was my first experience of a truly "smooth" razor that I'd honed myself"

Good stuff !…and how did you achieve that exactly ?

That was five years ago. Not sure that member is around much anymore.

wot a pity. perhaps you could help:D I'm at roughly the 8 month mark of straight razor shaving and i'm still chasing the really smooth shave i hear so much about here and other forums. i only have one razor and it's a vintage sheffield steel made in solingen. i've tried many combinations of honing and touching up… made my own strops, used pastes on leather…no paste on leather or linen etc etc. it strikes me though that whatever i do after an 8k honing is never really that significant. crox and stropping for ages and all that never seems to give me an awesomely smooth shave. so with that i've had the "why don't you get a 12k naniwa" question nagging at me for some time, so i guess what i'm asking is……. Is the 12k nani finish going to give me the ultimately significant level of shave that everyone bangs on about?….for nearly £70, i should co co!! i'm pretty happy with the shave i've achieved in just 8 mths and mostly my shaves are pretty comfortable but i'm guessing you know what this stuff is like eh? It's obsessive! or at least i am. I guess the other question is,..Have i already achieved the best edge i can for this blade? i simply don't have the spare cash to get another blade or a new "shave ready" blade to compare it too. cooer! what a perplexing dilemma with financial insecurity thrown in… i may never know:shrug: Slight irony here in asking a big spender:p . what dya reckon anyway?

Ah, the chase for the perfect shave dream. Everyone's been there. If you've never had a pro honed razor send it out for reference, its worth the outlay, however what I, you, Lynn, Glen, or our very own Neil Miller can achieve is very different. All I can say is the edges/shaves I have now with my own honing are very different from when I first started.
PS. I have the naniwa 10k and have never felt the need to go for the 12k although a gokumyo 20k is hard to beat....

Im going to give you my experience on the subject as I was in your shoes not too long ago. If you were to add the 12 Naniwa to your honing progression I believe it will surely improve the sharpness of the blade after the 8k. If you can afford it I would recommend its use. If not I will suggest that you really focus on getting the most out of your 8k do your strokes light pressure keep checking your progress get a jewelers loupe try tree topping arm hair etc. keep at it really light controlled x strokes add a little dish soap, glycerine or lather even to your water continue feather light and check your progress. when you think the 8 K has all its got to give go to a really high quality Chromium Oxide paste or crayon and finish it up. I use the crayon from SRD it is good stuff I have used other Crox that stunk like the stuff that they sell online for chisel sharpening its not pure mixed grits etc. I also have had no luck using hard felt for some reason. Best results for me was a good linen or cotton strop pasted with good quality Crox crayon for this I usually hold the strop real taught strop lightly don't bear down if you used a nice flat bench strop this might work even better. nice even controlled strokes. Now you will have to find out how many strokes will be enough to get it nice try 10,20 whatever it takes to get it real smooth. Folks here will say im crazy but I have done as many as 100 careful strokes on a crox strop with no ill effects not necessary to be sure but doable. Just have to break it down test as you go and you will come up with something that works nice for you im sure. Good luck

yeah you're definitely right. the gokumyo 20k at 27,000 Yen it is almost impossible to beat. unless you wanted to buy a paving slab size piece of cuticule…. that might do it:D

Thank you rf sound advice. more practice! will def try the lighter 8k strokes with a bit of lather before shelling out for the nani.

cool

wouldn't really know how good my crox is though??? even with a loupe

" Folks here will say im crazy but I have done as many as 100 careful strokes on a crox strop with no ill effects not necessary to be sure but doable."

glad to hear it. i can't say i've had much of a problem over honing either. thanks

When I started honing what I thought was a good hone job at first was mediocre at best. But I'm OCD and will actually have withdrawals if I don't get to hone a razor for a while. Thanks to my straight razor acquisition disorder I have had plenty of blades to hone and now I am finding that I can make most razors shave smoothly.

I do 40 circles on 1000K Nani then 30 X strokes both with pressure then 40 circles with and 40 circles without on a 3K Nani followed by 8 light x strokes. 10 x strokes with little to no pressure on an 8 k at which time the razor shaves hair. Then 10 x strokes weight of blade only on Nani 12K and then the blade pops hairs mid shaft like crazy.

I have shaved with them at that point and they shave well but after 10-12 strokes on CROx on my web strop followed by 20 strokes on web and 60 on buffalo leather SRD strop the blade changes from good to BBS smooth.

I think the 12 is definitely worth the money but I have also experimented with a 8 light pressure strokes followed by 8 weight of the blade strokes on the 8K followed by CROx and the above stripping routine with almost as good of results.

Basically the biggest factor is practice, practice, practice until you can literally get a feel for the steel. At that point you will even "feel" how different razors of made of different steels hone differently.
To me honing a razor to a smooth shaving edge is almost as rewarding as shaving with it and I can hone many razors a day I can only shave once!

Jonjo, what brand is your 8K stone and is your Chrome Oxide, shave quality Chrome Oxide?

Hardware store Chrome Ox is not pure Chrome Ox and will not leave a shavable edge.

Some pics of your razor and strop would help.

Attachment 205226Attachment 205230 thanks …
here's all my stuff and the 3k 8k combo is wusthof

What is the brand of Chrome Oxide and what is the other White strop pasted with.

Hard to tell from the photo but the bevel does not look like an 8K bevel, looks much rougher.

What did you lap them with?

not sure of the brand, i got a 25g bag from ebay (uk). the other paddle strop is a hemp webbing with dovo red paste. I've since made another paddle with dove black on leather. the only lapping (the 3/8k combo) i did was done with 400 grit w+d sand paper on a ceramic floor tile. the other stone btw is known as a dragons tongue…it seems to act like the 8k but much slower…it has a very glassy surface though when wet.

I would begin by lapping your stones. Use a sheet of 320 or 400 wet & dry on a cookie sheet from the dollar store and on a flat surface, or a 300 diamond plate, use pressure.

Ceramic tile is not flat. You can lap a tile flat with a diamond plate, maybe on wet & dry, though I have never tried it with W&D.

Grid the stone with pencil and lap it with lots of water. Grid and lap the stone, a couple times rotating 180 degrees, to get a good flat lap. Make sure to round or bevel the edges of the stones.

Then re-set the bevel on the 3k and polish on the 8k, until you remove all the 3k stria and any 1k stria left over. An 8k bevel should look shiny to the naked eye, with magnification should have a fine even stria pattern and very straight edge.

For now, do not use the Natural stone, it will just complicate your efforts, it is of unknown grit, probably less than 8k.

You should easily be able to get a very good shaving edge from an 8k and Chrome Oxide edge.
I suspect your Chrome Oxide may not be pure or if you are using it on balsa with too much pressure you may be chipping the edge.

Find out if your Chrome Oxide is pure and razor quality Chrome Oxide.

If it is, cut a piece of card board or take a folded newspaper and paste it with small amount of powdered Chrome Oxide (¼ teaspoon) and a few drops of mineral oil. Paint 3” X’s with your finger the length of the paper or cardboard, inside of a cereal box works good. Let dry overnight.

Then strop on the edge of a counter or table, using light even strokes, 15-20 laps. Look at the edge with magnification for chipping.

Thanks vm. it's probably time i had a hone but this time i'll follow your instruction and let you know my results. i meant wet and dry by the way, when i wrote w+d.. just too much abbreviation. anyway i appreciate your time and advice, thanks again!