On a shave ready razor do you need to strop with the cloth every time before you use the leather ?
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On a shave ready razor do you need to strop with the cloth every time before you use the leather ?
I maintained my first razor for months with nothing but a leather strop with no problems.
This has been a debated question for as long as people stropped razors. It is even mentioned as a contested question in the 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing and stropping here in the SRP Wiki. I have tried it both ways and I find, for me, that I get measurably better results doing linen/leather than if I do leather alone. YMMV.
I see some guys strop up 100 strokes and others 20-25, does it really make a razor more shave ready with higher number of strokes ?
Debate about that too. I've gone back and forth with more and with less. For a long time I did 50 and 50 linen/leather. Than I began doing 30 and 30. I know guys who do less whose opinion I respect but here again it is a matter of experimentation for each individual. Stick with a number for awhile and if you think you need more or less try that for awhile. Just IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by RML
I have always liked the results from using both. I have done less on the cloth maybe 10-15 then thrity on the leather. YMMV but that has always done me well.
Thanks for timely response to my questions Jimmy, the hardest part I find is when flipping the razor on the return stroke.
Yeap flipping without nicking the strop is the hardest part. Id say all of us have done it at one point or another. FWIW I probally dont strop enough. I usually do 10-15 strokes on leather and be done with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RML
In that PDF I linked to in the post above (honing & stropping) they recommend practicing the flip on the strop without the back and forth stropping motion. When you get the flip down pat start the up and down. Maybe you are beyond that now but than again it might do some good to practice that. My first strops were nicked up on the edge closest to my pulling hand and my body. I rarely miscue now so it does get better.
For what it's worth, I like 30 or so on cloth and 60 on leather. I haven't found a huge improvement going higher, but I have noticed that my cheeks don't like it if I'm on the low end of stropping.
Plus, I really like the feedback on my Premium I, so I strop often.
I've learned that stropping has to be an "awake" activity, which is why I tend to strop at night before bed. When I was stropping in the morning, I'd get the occasional knick.
Have you checked out AFDavis11's stropping video? His camera perspectives really show what your fingers should be doing. It's an excellent video.
**The video is the first "sticky" in this forum.
Quantifying stropping in terms of laps can be difficult because of differences in technique and differences among strops.
I'm presently using 30 laps on linen and then at least 60 laps on Premium I leather on my paddle strop. The paddle strop is a good strop for beginners to start with, but my experience has been that it requires more laps. The linen seems to bring the edge into sharpness quicker than leather, but the leather then goes on to refine that edge nicely.
No you don't have to , but I do . I've tried leather only , a few times , and I think stropping on the linen first , does make a difference .Quote:
Originally Posted by RML
Try thinking on a microscopic level for a minute. If you look VERY closely your will see that the edge of your razor is actually jagged. As you shave these little zig zags get bent out of shape, and some almost break off. Like a hanging chad. :gaah:
The linen on your strop works on a microscopic level as well. The tiny little fibers of the strop snags those little buggers and cleans the edge. The strength of the fibers in your linen will help determine how effective your stopping is.
At this point you get the canvas vs cotton vs wool vs poly rhetoric. They all do the job.
With that preparation the leather forces the jagged edge back into as uniform line as possible. The more uniform the line the keener your edge.
And THEN there's draw! Interesting topic as well.
:beer2:
I'm a linen/leather guy myself, so yes, having a material component is a definite asset IMO. I also think it prolongs the time between touch ups.
Here is a past thread to read
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...en-cotton.html
You might really want to look at post #16 I could go grab another strop right now and show you the exact same pics again :)
There are micro particles that come off the edges... I would rather have the Linen look like that so I can brush it out or even wash it out. rather than digging it's way into my good leather...
Plus like most of the guys said I think it works better too :)
Funny thing--
I cannot feel a difference in the cutting action if I skip the fabric for a use, BUT, my skin gets redder and I have trouble with little pustules and other side-effects of harsh exfoliating unless I use the fabric each time. Ergo, on some level, it is smoothing things out on a level too fine for my nerves to pick up on, but more than significant enough for my skin to appreciate!
Most strops have a dual component of linen/leather & some have dual leather but the general concept seems to be a sacrificial side & a polishing side... My 2ç :)
I only know my black juchten leather with tan leather works fantastic. the black juchten is so soft with alot of draw and the tan side extra hard with hardly any draw, but still enough draw to strop ultra fast.
I've also nicked the sides a couple of times bt still have the majority of the strop to use
FWIW, I have a SRD Felt/leather strop which I started on about 13 months ago. I use the felt prior to using the leather. I have only used one side. One side has the gray tint to it, the other is clean as in Glen's photo.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Arguably not, and I know there are folks that dont, but I prefer the results when I use both fabric and cloth. JMHO of course and YMMV.
I don't think I've seen this one. Could you tell me where to find it? (Sorry, I don't know what a sticky is).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxi
:cry:
Here it is. A "sticky" is a thread deemed essential enough to always remain at the forefront of a forum menu. If you go to any forum directly , rather than accessing 'new posts' you will see stickies with the titles in red.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
Is a string long?
What a great thread. Surprised I never found it before. It seems that most here use varied approaches to the same technique, and have found similar results. I'd like to start by mentioning that I never start with more than a few strokes on leather on a razor I have shaved with before. I have found many that will be just fine with that for a number of shaves. I suspect I have come across some overhoned razors from the guys who need 100 of this and 100 that. It could be a neater world, but the truth is I hone and strop a number of razors that repsond quite differently to my efforts. Maybe my efforts could always be the same, but why would I want to make 100 passes if 20 reach the same point? There are very few razors that even identical modles from the same manufacturer will produce identical results from identical efforts. Each razor has its own set of quality of steel, hardness, and temper, not to mention width at bevel and enviornmental exposures. Each strop has its own qualities and will produce near same results, but not necessarily with the same effort. I believe in constant testing and feedback through the honing and stropping process. I don't have enough hair for that so use unaccepted methods. I know, shame on me. (Shhh, don't tell anybody) Since we are discussing strops and stopping I will confine my chat to that. When I think a razor is ready I head for the ultimate, and only really revelent test, on my face. There are a number of strops hanging on the door behind me. I'll start the process with about 30 laps on leather. If I am not satisfied that the razor is sharp enough, on the first stroke, I will give it 30 or so laps on the cloth, and follow with more until I am satisfied it is sharp enough. If at that point I feel the shave could be softer and smoother, then I go to the leather to produce that. Maybe starting with as little as 20, and following with more as I believe are probably necessary. I have found, that on some razors, too much leather can begin to loose a little keeness, and then you need to find the best compromise. But this entire process is usually finished before I finish the first cheek. I have a difficult time understanding the guys that strop tonight and shave tomorrow, with the strops in another room. What do you do if the edge is not quite right? Walk back and forth? Or endure a shave that you know is less than expected? Mostly, the razors we deal with are all different in their reactions to our efforts, why would we treat them all the same or expect them to act the same. I have found that most razors can give quite satisfactory shaves for quite some time, with a good leather and linen strop, but eventually frown and chips will require honing. All of this is a little difficult for newbies. Over doing each step is often the only replacement for experience and sensativiety to what the razor is doing on your face. Sorry newbies, you will have to keep doing the 100 strokes for a while. To complicate your lives just a little more, I have found that speed improves the edge faster, and cuts the number of passes necessary for the same results, at least on the cloth strops. Just MHO
does the typr of canvas make a difference for stropping? I have some fairly heavy canvas that is almost like the canvas from a covered wagon. would that be ok?
Probably would. The old barbers strops used a linen, or canvas, that was very like that used in old firehose. Much stiffer and thicker than that supplied with current strops. I've used seat belts, shoulder harness from a nascar racing car. All worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by One2mny
The harder and more coarse the fabric the greater the effect. Kind of like comparing a 4K hone to an 8K of course on a much smaller scale.
The real king of fabrics in the old days was silk. They made this knobby silk fabric which was very expensive and few could afford. Linen was the top of the line for most including barbers. My red Imp Strop comes with the most wonderful of linen I have ever seen.
I have tried at least 4 different materials that came with strops. One on an Illinois strop was a little stiffer than my preference. All accomplished much the same effect, although I have found one that seems to heat the edge faster and has a quicker, more pronounced effect on the edge, without fear of damage to the edge. The one I found is a little stiffer than seat belt material, but similar, with a tighter weave, but only slightly coarser finish. When stropping on cloth, I always use my fastest, yet lightest technique. Many cloth strops will produce a velvety edge within 40-50 very light, very fast laps. Under 60 seconds. I sometimes try the razor right off the cloth strop, but usually find a finish of 20 or so laps on leather gives the finest finish. For Newbies: Caution!: Trying to go faster than you are ready for can cut more than the strop.