Can you do without the strop?

I hardly ever hone my blades once they're sharp. I do use some of the white paste on the linen side of my strop so the razor is getting a little sharpening each time I do that.

I see many of the old razors on E-bay have a lot of hone wear. More than I would give a razor in 3 or 4 lifetimes. I wonder if any of the users of these blades were just honing every day instead of stropping.

With the Swatty hone I primarily use I think a blade would still last a lifetime with 3 or 4 strokes on the hone every day, but then you might see some hone wear after a few years.

I'm going on vacation tomorrow, and packing a nice old Henkels 7-day set of razors. It rolls up easily and fits well in my Dopp kit, as does a hone. However, a strop is a lot bulkier and harder to pack. I think I will leave the strop and just take the hone. With a 7-day kit it's just one or two hones on each razor, and they will probably thank me for it.

Stropping is one of the fun parts of my shave, so I really don't want to drop it long term. I am curious though as to whether or not some of the old-timers only honed? Any information or thoughts on this?

I'm hardly a razor expert, but given the choice between running any other blade over a stone or steeling it before each use, the steel seems a much better choice - since it doesn't remove metal, you prolong the life of the blade.

I would certainly take a strop. I've tried shaving without stropping and even directly after honing it's not quite what I want my shave to be.

X

I think you'll find that the thought of shaving without stropping is kind of like taking a shower with you clothes on. Stropping should be considered manditory.

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Originally Posted by Howard Wallace

I see many of the old razors on E-bay have a lot of hone wear. More than I would give a razor in 3 or 4 lifetimes. I wonder if any of the users of these blades were just honing every day instead of stropping?

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Keep in mind that some of these worn razors came from barbers, who probably gave them both the strop and a few licks on the hone before every customer.

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Originally Posted by mparker762

Keep in mind that some of these worn razors came from barbers, who probably gave them both the strop and a few licks on the hone before every customer.

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I hadn't thought of that. I barber could easily put multiple lifetimes of hone wear on a razor.

I think I have the opportunity for a good test. I'll use one single razor from the kit every day, and just hone on the Swatty. If the shaves start to deteriorate too badly I can always use other razors from the kit. I can also compare the razor used before and after to a control razor from the kit. I can look at both edge quality and hone wear before and after. I'll let you guys know how the test goes.

If you had previously stropped the razor after honing, I would say yes, you could get away with shaving, and skipping the strop once or twice, but...I wouldn't put a razor to my face that had just come off of the hone and hadn't been stropped. That would result in a pretty rough shave.

Scott

Howard, stropping and honing are not the same thing. Other than smoothing the edge, the reason a strop works is that the microserrations of the edge spread out during a shave, making the edge seem wider (less sharp). Stopping just stands them back up or aligns them, making the edge seem thinner. Neither leather nor linnen is supposed to remove material.

Honing removes material. If you hone without stropping first, the microserrations will be spread out and you will cut them off to narrow the edge. If you strop first, the amount of material removed is mnimized. If you hone instead of stropping you're spreading the teeth out and then cutting them off (without aligning them), and the amount aof material removed is maximized.

If you strop and only refresh with a hone when the stropping doesn't restore the razor, you can go without real honing indefinitely. You'll always have a keen edge, and material removal is minimized.

There's no excuse for not stropping. You can do it on a belt, jeans, or a newspapeer in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by honedright

I wouldn't put a razor to my face that had just come off of the hone and hadn't been stropped. That would result in a pretty rough shave.

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I agree, but it also depends on how you're honing. After an 8K you certainly want some stropping. But on higher grits you may not need polishing.

For example, I'll routinely not strop on leather if I use a .5 or .25 paste (equivqlent to 50K and 100K). I have very sensitive skin and I can't feel the difference. Stropping on this fine a pasted strop still provides the benefits of leather stropping stropping.

Also your shave quality is not going to be pleasant. A "honed only" razor would be a very harsh shave.

Glen

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Originally Posted by gglockner

Also your shave quality is not going to be pleasant. A "honed only" razor would be a very harsh shave.

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Again, it depends on the hone. With a .5 or .25 pasted strop there's no problem, nor do I think you'd have one with a 30K stone, or maybe even a 16K stone.

I think it's an individual thing. Some guys can tolerate an 8K honed razor without stropping.

I'm back from my vacation, and my experiment is complete. Here are the results.

I shaved each day with the "Wednesday" razor from a 7-day set of Henkels. I used the "Thursday" as a control for comparison purposes.

Before each shave I gave Wednesday 3 or 4 strokes on each side on a Swatty hone. No stropping. I shaved for seven days that way. All the shaves were good. I experienced no deterioration in shave quality. On the 8th day (this morning) I shaved the right side of my face with Wednesday, and the left side of my face with the control Thursday. If anything, Wednesday shaved a little better. But the two razors were very close in shaving effectiveness. I tried to distinguish any difference due to hone wear on edge and spine between the Wednesday and Thursday razors but I could not.

These results apply only to me, with my razors, my hone, and my honing technique. However, if any of you are curious, the experiment is easy enough to duplicate for yourself, to see if using only a hone works for you too.

I have fun with my handmade strop, and have no intention of giving it up for my home shaves. However, I now have a new, and lighter, kit for traveling.

I used a leather belt to a good effect, but never tried shaving without any stropping. In any case it gives me something to do while I am waiting for the first lather to do its work.

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Originally Posted by Howard Wallace

These results apply only to me, with my razors, my hone, and my honing technique. However, if any of you are curious, the experiment is easy enough to duplicate for yourself, to see if using only a hone works for you too.

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And here, I suspect we have a crucial piece of evidence. I will only ever always strive for the sharpest blade and the closest shave. It sounds to me like you are willing to settle for less. (Upon rereading that sounds like a jab, but it's not intended to be.) On a few occasions I have shaved directly after honing without stropping and wondered why I'm not getting the shave of my dreams. I'd simply forgotten to strop. That is how I know already that I CAN shave without stropping, but don't want to. It's a small thing to figure out in order to get a great shave on the road.

X

you need to get Tony to make you a travel strop it rolls up or folds up so easily its easier to pack then a belt, I have a 3" one and use it 3 - 5 days a week and it goes EVERYWHERE with me.

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Originally Posted by xman

And here, I suspect we have a crucial piece of evidence. I will only ever always strive for the sharpest blade and the closest shave. It sounds to me like you are willing to settle for less. (Upon rereading that sounds like a jab, but it's not intended to be.) On a few occasions I have shaved directly after honing without stropping and wondered why I'm not getting the shave of my dreams. I'd simply forgotten to strop. That is how I know already that I CAN shave without stropping, but don't want to. It's a small thing to figure out in order to get a great shave on the road.

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X, you may be on to something very interesting. No offence taken.

One of the things that attracts me to the straight razor is its simplicity and its ability to "get the job done." While it is certainly possible to complicate the straight razor shave and to find luxury in it, complexity and luxury are not the main attractions of the straight razor, for me. I'm looking for the simplest of foundations, from which I will take occassional, enjoyable excursions into complexity and luxury.

All too often, those who seek comfort do not end up finding it. Rather, their standards of comfort gradually become higher and higher, untill finally only on the rare occasions when they have absolutely every element they desire are they able to achieve a temporary semblance of satisfaction.

Gandhi said "The real essence of civilization is not the multiplication of wants but their deliberate and voluntary renunciation." Although I part philosophical company with the Mahatma in many areas, in this one he and I are in agreement.

The paradox is that the epicure seeking comfort is likely to enjoy the experience he seeks much less than the acetic who is used to doing without the luxuries. For the ascetic, anything above the baseline is an enjoyable treat, while for the epicure, anything below his highest expectation is miserable.

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Originally Posted by JLStorm

you need to get Tony to make you a travel strop it rolls up or folds up so easily its easier to pack then a belt, I have a 3" one and use it 3 - 5 days a week and it goes EVERYWHERE with me.

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:o

OK, you force me to admit that in addition to having one of Tony's strops with all the hardware hanging in my bathroom, I also have one of his seconds with no hardware that does indeed roll up nicely for travel. You're really backing me into a corner here!

The remaining advantages of the hone are that it's somewhat smaller, and is lightly abrasive. The ability of the hone to sharpen the blade as well as align the edge could be a factor on a very long trip.

Sharpening could be addressed by pasting the strop so it has some abrasive action. The linen side of the strop I use at home is pasted, and I rarely need to hone a razor when I'm using that strop regularly.

I think Howard's point is not that the strop is un-needed for genral use but he wants a minimal kit for ease of use on the road. A hone is much smaller than a paddle or hanging strop. In trade off though he is adding a honing every shave. A step is not really being skipped here (stropping), but a different one is being substituted (honing).

Last year I actually made a bunch of "Pocket Strops" which were 2" x 4" wooden/leather hones. Many were bought with pastes on both sides and used just for travel since they were so small. I did a run of strop back hones too using some of Tilly's barber hones.

His is just another innovative approach to get the job done.

Tony

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Originally Posted by Howard Wallace

I'm back from my vacation, and my experiment is complete. Here are the results.

I shaved each day with the "Wednesday" razor from a 7-day set of Henkels. I used the "Thursday" as a control for comparison purposes.

Before each shave I gave Wednesday 3 or 4 strokes on each side on a Swatty hone. No stropping. I shaved for seven days that way. All the shaves were good. I experienced no deterioration in shave quality. On the 8th day (this morning) I shaved the right side of my face with Wednesday, and the left side of my face with the control Thursday. If anything, Wednesday shaved a little better. But the two razors were very close in shaving effectiveness. I tried to distinguish any difference due to hone wear on edge and spine between the Wednesday and Thursday razors but I could not.

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I'm not really surprized here. I didn't expect stropping after honing to make abig difference, if any.

Dovo tells you never to strop after a shave. Why? Shaving causes the microserrations to spread, making the edge seem wider (duller). In a day or two, the microserrations come back most of the way. Stropping pushes them back, making the dge seem sharper. No material was removed, and the teeth are pushed back lastically. If you strop after the shave your moving the teeth much more over an inelastic range. This is like bending a piece of metal too far, and afte a while it breaks from fatigue. The teeth or microserrations are very delicate and break in a short time, leving a dull edge.

Why am I telling you this? Honing before every shave achieves some of the effect of stropping. What it doesn't push back it cuts off. So you will always have a sharp edge. It's possible for it to be sharper because you may be improving on the original honing. The problem is you're removing material unnecessarily. You won't see it in a few days. The teeth are so small that you can't even see them at 100x. But over time you will acelerate the earing out of your razor. It will still last a long time, so if you don't care, it's possible to maintain your razor this way.

IMO, the ideal way to maintain your razor is to give it at least a day's rest and strop before every shave. When stropping fails to restoe sharpness, do the kind of touchup you describe. This may be once a week or more. So, your technique is wearing out your razor seven times faster.

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I think Howard's point is not that the strop is un-needed for genral use but he wants a minimal kit for ease of use on the road. A hone is much smaller than a paddle or hanging strop. In trade off though he is adding a honing every shave. A step is not really being skipped here (stropping), but a different one is being substituted (honing).

Last year I actually made a bunch of "Pocket Strops" which were 2" x 4" wooden/leather hones. Many were bought with pastes on both sides and used just for travel since they were so small. I did a run of strop back hones too using some of Tilly's barber hones.

His is just another innovative approach to get the job done.

Tony

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Then he'd be better off with a pasted strop. It will achieve the benefits of stropping and remove less material.

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I think Howard's point is not that the strop is un-needed for genral use but he wants a minimal kit for ease of use on the road. A hone is much smaller than a paddle or hanging strop. In trade off though he is adding a honing every shave. A step is not really being skipped here (stropping), but a different one is being substituted (honing).

Last year I actually made a bunch of "Pocket Strops" which were 2" x 4" wooden/leather hones. Many were bought with pastes on both sides and used just for travel since they were so small. I did a run of strop back hones too using some of Tilly's barber hones.

His is just another innovative approach to get the job done.

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Yes, Tony, you understood my point.

It is indeed a trade off of one technique for another. A couple of licks on the hone is quite a bit quicker and less fuss than stropping. However, 20 stokes on each side of a fine handmade strop while the lather softens up my beard is a truly enjoyable part of my shave.

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

your technique is wearing out your razor seven times faster.

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No argument there. See my first post in this thread, in which I noted the possibility of increased wear. However, with the hone I'm using the rate of wear when honing is insignificant, to me.

Here's an interesting old traveling barber's kit from a recent e-bay auction.

http://aolisi.net/images/Razors/OldT...rbersTools.jpg

Of particular interest is that it contains a hone but no strop.

Of course, the strop may have dissapeared in the years since this was last used, but the kit seems complete otherwise.

It may be that this is not a new idea.