Which pastes would you use?

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10-26-2006, 06:13 PM
1adam12

Which pastes would you use?

I am planning on getting a Norton 4/8K, and a 2 sided 3" wide paddle strop from Tony for Christmas. Since this will be my gear to keep my razors sharp, and it will be the only stuff I get for a long long time. Answer me these questions three.

Which 2 pastes would be the best step down from the 8K side of the Norton?
Which 2 pastes would keep me away from the hone for longest time?
Which 2 pastes would maintain a sharp but comfortable edge?

I have read several posts here and there about pastes. For instance, I seem to remember Randy prefering Chromium Oxide over Diamond paste; because the edge feels better on his dainty skin using the green stuff. This is the kind of thing I am looking for to base my final paste decision on. Thanks ya bunch of razor freaks.
10-26-2006, 06:47 PM
Tony Miller

My quick opinion would be to use 1.0 and 0.5 micron diamond pastes. If I recall correctly 3.0 micron may be similar to the 8K side of the Norton so would be a duplicate, 1.0 would be the next finest step down with 0.5 more than enough for most mortals for a finish shaving edge. Some ant the 0.25 but in most cases it may be overkill, at least with some razors. often it results in the edge needing more frequent touch up than if the 0.5 were used.

Tony
10-26-2006, 06:57 PM
mparker762

Just get the 1.0 micron diamond paste and keep the other side for daily stropping. Tony's wide paddle strops are great for daily stropping, I recently started using the plain side of mine and I like it nearly as much as a hanging strop, paddles are a lot faster than I remembered (or I've gotten a lot faster, which is more likely).
10-26-2006, 07:03 PM
FiReSTaRT

Randy said that you can even go with 0.5 right off the Norton. In that case, I'd recommend 0.5 and 0.25
10-26-2006, 07:31 PM
xman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1adam12

Which 2 pastes would be the best step down from the 8K side of the Norton?

I prefer the 0.5µ and 0.25µ, but I do use a 12k for about 6 laps between the Norton and pastes. It's more exacting to hone that way but I do it because I like a VERY sharp blade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1adam12

Which 2 pastes would keep me away from the hone for longest time?

Probably the 1.0µ and the 0.5µ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1adam12

Which 2 pastes would maintain a sharp but comfortable edge?

I find the 0.25µ quite comfortable since the sharper a blade is, the less pressure I feel like using and as we all know from those funny garbage razor commercials "Before, pressure caused irritation".

All in all I'd suggest the 1µ and 0.5µ as your best direction. If you decide you want to try the 0.25µ at some point in the future that's gravy.

Me? I like gravy! :D

X
10-26-2006, 08:52 PM
Joe Chandler

I sent you a PM, with more detail, but I'd say if I could only have 2 pastes, I'd go with .5 diamond and green chrome. The GC is actually rated at about .5 micron as well, but it cuts softer, producing a better shaving edge, IMO. It polishes more than cuts, while the diamond seems to produce a harsher edge, though no less sharp. I've got lots of different compounds, both dry, paste, and liquid, but those two are the two I probably use the most.
10-26-2006, 10:47 PM
Damon

Hi 1adam12,

I asked a similar question a while back only about microns verses grits and here is the post if you want the info to help you make your decision.-
http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=7501

I prefer DOVO red On one side of the paddle and .5 chrome oxide on the other
10-26-2006, 11:27 PM
Joe Lerch

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1adam12

I am planning on getting a Norton 4/8K, and a 2 sided 3" wide paddle strop from Tony for Christmas. Since this will be my gear to keep my razors sharp, and it will be the only stuff I get for a long long time. Answer me these questions three.

Which 2 pastes would be the best step down from the 8K side of the Norton?
Which 2 pastes would keep me away from the hone for longest time?
Which 2 pastes would maintain a sharp but comfortable edge?

I have read several posts here and there about pastes. For instance, I seem to remember Randy prefering Chromium Oxide over Diamond paste; because the edge feels better on his dainty skin using the green stuff. This is the kind of thing I am looking for to base my final paste decision on. Thanks ya bunch of razor freaks.

I would go for 1 and .5 microns. That gives you about 15K and 50K. It's not a bad transition and the .5 will leave the edge beautiful.

As for keeping off the hone, the way you do that is by refreshing the edge when ordinary stropping fails to restore its sharpness (you feel a slight pull). Do a few quick swipes on the 1 and about 10 on the .5 and your refreshed.

There's a reverse relationship between the fineness of the edge and how long it lasts. If you're willing to compromise and not use the .5, your edge should last longer between refreshings. In any case you can go on refreshing indefinitely before serious honing would benecessary.
10-26-2006, 11:32 PM
Joe Lerch

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Randy said that you can even go with 0.5 right off the Norton. In that case, I'd recommend 0.5 and 0.25

Hey, you can do anything. But you'll need a lot more roundtrips on the .5 if you skip the 1 micron.

Randy thinks nothing of doing a 100 roundtrips. That tries my patience. I don't need that many total to restore th edge on most Ebay acquisitions. I find it easier to use a progression of grits that works quickly and efficiently and save the round trips for the end when I'm trying to polish up the edge (I use a .25 paste).
10-27-2006, 12:37 AM
FiReSTaRT

Joe, that was the next question I was gonna ask. So it would take about 100 passes on the 0.5 chromium oxide after the N8k?
As I keep my RAD in check and I won't have to do 100 passes for touchups, I don't mind doing it once in the blade's life-time or once a year at most.
10-27-2006, 12:40 AM
Duke

Which Pastes Would You Use

If the chromium oxide red equals the .5 diamond paste in grit value are they interchangeable on the same strop? Also, where's the best (and cheapest) place to buy the chromium oxide? I know the cost of the diamond pastes are rather high so if you can get the same results using comparable chromium oxide paste and also buy it for less than the diamonds then that seems to be the way to go.
10-27-2006, 01:49 AM
Joe Lerch

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Joe, that was the next question I was gonna ask. So it would take about 100 passes on the 0.5 chromium oxide after the N8k?
As I keep my RAD in check and I won't have to do 100 passes for touchups, I don't mind doing it once in the blade's life-time or once a year at most.

That's not what I meant. I only mentioned 100 passes because Randy said he did that in a recent post. But you got the idea. If you go to .5 too soon you'll have a lot of work, and it can get frustrating because you may not see any difference until you do a lot of passes.

The number of passes you do on the .5 will depend on many things, including the steel the razor is made of, the grind and where it is when you leave the 8K. The idea is not to have an extreme grit jump, like 4K, 8K, 50K. You'd be a lot happier with 4K, 8K, 15K (1 micron), 50K (.5 micron).
10-27-2006, 01:52 AM
Joe Lerch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke

If the chromium oxide red equals the .5 diamond paste in grit value are they interchangeable on the same strop? Also, where's the best (and cheapest) place to buy the chromium oxide? I know the cost of the diamond pastes are rather high so if you can get the same results using comparable chromium oxide paste and also buy it for less than the diamonds then that seems to be the way to go.

You shouldn't mix pastes on one surface, because you never know what the result will be. You can get chromium .5 at handamerican.com.
10-27-2006, 02:24 AM
randydance062449

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Joe, that was the next question I was gonna ask. So it would take about 100 passes on the 0.5 chromium oxide after the N8k?
As I keep my RAD in check and I won't have to do 100 passes for touchups, I don't mind doing it once in the blade's life-time or once a year at most.

100 laps would only be used on the hardest of steels! When I go from the 8K directly to the 0.5 chrome oxide I usually use 30-50 roundtrip laps.

My vote is 1.0 diamond and 0.5 chrome oxide for tough beards or 0.5 chrome oxide and 0.25 diamond for those who like the edge super sharp.

EDIT: There really is no formula for the number of laps to use. You must pay attention to the edge and experiment to see what works for your razor and your face.

Just my two cents,:)
10-27-2006, 05:21 AM
FiReSTaRT

Thanks Joe/Randy. I've been checking my mail every day and now I have a marble tile for the bench hone (thanks to Jason). So now I only have to wait for the abrasive powder (thanks Randy) and the leather (nice to be doing biz with Tony/Dave)... Randy, how do you mix the powder/mink oil (ratios/methods) and how much would go on a 3x12" surface?
10-27-2006, 03:37 PM
1adam12

Thanks for all the opinions and advise fellas. It definately helps me see things differently, and influences my future choices.
10-27-2006, 03:42 PM
FiReSTaRT

By the way, Wouldn't leather be pliable enough to make up for any minor imperfections of the backing surface?
10-27-2006, 04:05 PM
Tony Miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

By the way, Wouldn't leather be pliable enough to make up for any minor imperfections of the backing surface?

Sadly no. What happenes is it conforms to the surface beneath it and if there are any ridges or warping the leather will follow that shape. Your razor, being flat will only contact the high spots giving less than 100% contact. In reality you will never get full contact using leather on any paddle but you need to get enough contact that the entire blade contacts the surface at some point in it's journey from one end of the strop to the other. Even a buildup of glue will give a varying surface. The leather I sent you should be thick enough to give pretty good contact.

This is the issue I have when buying hides. bumps, gouges, fat creases, etc..... all reduce the contact area and effect the final product. On the thick hides I use for hanging strops I am lucky if I get a 50% yield of "firsts". Often a hide will yield more seconds than firsts, hence the free "second" with every top end strop I sell.

For paddles it is a little better at least but lots of cow goes to waste <g>.

Tony
10-27-2006, 04:12 PM
FiReSTaRT

Thanks Tony. So what expectations should I have from a marble tile? The surface seems to be flat and smooth.
10-27-2006, 05:24 PM
1adam12

Oh I almost forgot to mention. X-man, YES!! Gravy is one of man's great gifts to the universe.
10-27-2006, 08:12 PM
72miura

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Thanks Tony. So what expectations should I have from a marble tile? The surface seems to be flat and smooth.

That tile should work great. I just got a nice 4x12x2 of aluminum that i think I may make a bench strop outta. I put it on the mill and it should be flat to the .001" across the whole surface.
Let us know how it works!
10-27-2006, 09:59 PM
Tony Miller

I agree, the tile will be smooth enough since it is marble. These are ground flat as larger slabs then sawn and finished into their final size. Ceramics would be a different story as Randy pointed out as they are molded and vary greatly.

Tony
10-28-2006, 12:22 AM
FiReSTaRT

I've been thinking of following Matt's advice and using those magnetic sheets for attachment. However I do have a couple of questions and concerns:
1) How flat is their surface? Will surface of imperfections on the magnetic sheets cause uneven contact?
2) This problem would be compounded by using 2 layers of this material (one for the bottoms of the leather strips and the other for the top of the marble surface. How concerned should I be?
3) Matt suggested a contact cement like Weld-Bond for this application. Will this do the trick?