Help... I think I stropped my razor dull!

Well got a new Illinois #827 strop.

I'd already shaved 4x with a newly honed razor. (Thanks, GSSIXGUN :bow)

I stropped my razor on the linen side about 20x and then the Russian leather side 20x.
I could see that the edge was getting polished.

But, when I tried shaving my arm hair it would cut the hair.
Then I tried the hanging hair trick... nope!

I figured... well it cuts my arm hair, I'll give it a try.

Man! Did it pull! :cry:

So, that's why I think I just stopped my razor dull. :banghead:

Any suggestions?

By the way I just ordered Lynn's DVD :o

Suggestion 1: Don't use the hanging hair test unless you're honing. It's mainly an indicator for the honer and will only add confusion for learning shavers.

Suggestion 2: Strop again. Don't go to fast, turn the razor on the spine, don't put too much pressure on it as you strop. Keep even strokes, and keep them calm. BUT: try doing 20-30 strokes on the canvas and 30-50 on the leather side. Shave again, see if it improved.

Suggestion 3: Another possibility is that it may have nothing to do with your stropping. Perhaps your lather was too dry. I've had some problems with that and noticed it makes the shave feel rough. Pay attention to the consistency of the lather, it might have something to do with it.

When shaving, keep the spine of the razor as close to your skin as possible without it actually touching your skin. Sometimes a shallow angle of attack will improve the shave.

Jerry
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Lynn made a good stropping video recently. He uses both sides of a hanging strop and explains as he goes. Also AFdavis video, and others are great. They are the video section of the forum.

Watch those, and your DVD, then follow pithor's advice above. Don't try too hard to shave your whole face, and finish with another razor.

Play around like that for a while. If after a while, the blade is truly dull, you can pm me and I will hone it for you free.

Michael

That's great advice, just remember tighten up on the strop, keep it flat on the leather/linen go deliberatly, fast will come later on, learn to "Twirl" the razor between you finger at just the rigth time, use all five fingers to twirl it!!
The rest come's with lot and lots of practice.
Welcome the the Str8 hobby, you'll love it, we all do!

tinkersd

I really can't see stropping the razor dull after 20 laps, especially if gssixgun just honed it with all of his experience! I'm thinking it's a blade angle problem. When I first started stropping, I made tons of mistakes, but my blades were still sharp enough to shave with. Also, I don't believe in them hair tests. I've cut my arm hair but failed the HHT as well as you, but shaved my face just fine. This is what leads me to believe your angle of attack might be incorrect. I own the same strop, and I do 30 laps on the linen, and 60 laps on the leather.

Whether you can save the edge by restropping depends on what you did on the strop that created the issue. Can you describe exactly what you did? Were you making sure the spine stayed in contact with the strop the whole time, for example, or were you lifting the razor off the strop at each end? It sounds to me, based on the information you have provided and a goodly amount of conjecture on my part, that you may have rounded/folded the edge.

If that's the case you might be able to strop it back using careful and correct stropping technique, but it depends how bad the issue is.

James.

I knew I had a great knowledge pool to drink from!

Thanks to all.

I will follow the stropping instructions and let's see what happends.

I have shaved with this razor several times and didn't have any problems (no pulling).

So, it must be my stropping... practice, practice, practice.
Slow delibrate practice...............

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Originally Posted by 2005xfr

I knew I had a great knowledge pool to drink from!

Thanks to all.

I will follow the stropping instructions and let's see what happends.

I have shaved with this razor several times and didn't have any problems (no pulling).

So, it must be my stropping... practice, practice, practice.
Slow delibrate practice...............

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Good Luck!!

I might be out on left field here, but I found stropping slowly to be just about useless for me. As I got better and got to the point where I could strop quickly, I found that stropping was actually helpful. Maybe I just learnt how to strop properly by the time I got quick lol?

How did it turn out for you?

We did an experiment (more an observational study, really) a while back on the speed of stropping and how that equated to the shave. Admittedly there were only two of us and the observations were very qualitative in nature, but one of us was AFDavis so I think that adds some weight to it! :)

In any event, we found that there seemed to be a minimum speed below which stropping is fairly ineffectual. However, this speed was surprisingly slow - cannot remember exactly what it was now but I seem to recall it was slower than one would reasonably expect a beginner to be able to achieve, other things being equal. On the other end of the scale, it appeared that there was a maximum speed beyond which the edge/shave did not appear to be appreciably better. This maximum speed was not as fast as some people might expect it to be - again, I cannot recall exact details but I think Alan suggested something in the order of one stroke per second, or thereabouts.

Anyway, the point is that I *think* (suspect, conjecture, hypothesise, whatever...) speed does not play a major role in good stropping per se. My theory is that speed (that is, speed without killing the strop! :)) can be indicative of a better stropping technique and it is this stropping technique that matters in terms of stropping efficacy. In other words, speed may indicate you have your technique going well but the converse is definitely not true: good technique does not necessarily mean you're a fast stropper.

So what I am trying to say in my typically long-winded way is that you should concentrate on your stropping technique and not on the speed. Technique will eventually drive speed increases, but speed in and of itself will not improve the edges off the strop.

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

We did an experiment (more an observational study, really) a while back on the speed of stropping and how that equated to the shave. Admittedly there were only two of us and the observations were very qualitative in nature, but one of us was AFDavis so I think that adds some weight to it! :)

In any event, we found that there seemed to be a minimum speed below which stropping is fairly ineffectual. However, this speed was surprisingly slow - cannot remember exactly what it was now but I seem to recall it was slower than one would reasonably expect a beginner to be able to achieve, other things being equal. On the other end of the scale, it appeared that there was a maximum speed beyond which the edge/shave did not appear to be appreciably better. This maximum speed was not as fast as some people might expect it to be - again, I cannot recall exact details but I think Alan suggested something in the order of one stroke per second, or thereabouts.

Anyway, the point is that I *think* (suspect, conjecture, hypothesise, whatever...) speed does not play a major role in good stropping per se. My theory is that speed (that is, speed without killing the strop! :)) can be indicative of a better stropping technique and it is this stropping technique that matters in terms of stropping efficacy. In other words, speed may indicate you have your technique going well but the converse is definitely not true: good technique does not necessarily mean you're a fast stropper.

So what I am trying to say in my typically long-winded way is that you should concentrate on your stropping technique and not on the speed. Technique will eventually drive speed increases, but speed in and of itself will not improve the edges off the strop.

James.

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Dang James - that's really cool!! Crazy cool actually. Please tell me you got video! If not, maybe you should re-create the experiment and post it on the Wiki as I ended up kind of selling myself on the speed thing lol... sigh. If I can help at all - let me know - and thanks for the input.

david

Well, followed advice "Wax On/Wax Off)

I think is was a combination shave angle and number of stropping.

I did the 30 Linen/ 60 Leather and it seems to have tuned up the edge.

I guess I just didn't "work it" like I should have.

Thanks to all for your insight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Good Luck!!

I might be out on left field here, but I found stropping slowly to be just about useless for me. As I got better and got to the point where I could strop quickly, I found that stropping was actually helpful. Maybe I just learnt how to strop properly by the time I got quick lol?

How did it turn out for you?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2005xfr

Well, followed advice "Wax On/Wax Off)

I think is was a combination shave angle and number of stropping.

I did the 30 Linen/ 60 Leather and it seems to have tuned up the edge.

I guess I just didn't "work it" like I should have.

Thanks to all for your insight.

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Nice!! Love a story with a good ending lol!!

2005, Its not uncommon for a noob to dull his razor from stropping. I excelled at it. 'Ate 5 strops. Dulled more edges than my memory will allow me to recall. You're learning. You'll get there.

One thing I loved about Glen's 3/11 beginner's tips thread was the technique of laying a hanging strop on a hard, flat surface, taking the requirement for keeping tension out of the equation. Its a thread worth going through more than once. I sure have. I found it relieving to see Glen's strops w/ many sanding marks - even the pros make mistakes. If he can nick a strop, I don't feel quite as bad.

If you need a hand w/ edges, I'd be happy to help - just the cost to mail it back to you. This is where its handy to have a 2nd blade so you're still shaving while one is out having an edge refreshed.

Keep going - the stropping gets easier.

I've been waiting for SirStropALot to comment here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Dang James - that's really cool!! Crazy cool actually. Please tell me you got video! If not, maybe you should re-create the experiment and post it on the Wiki as I ended up kind of selling myself on the speed thing lol... sigh. If I can help at all - let me know - and thanks for the input.

david

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Sorry David, but we never got around to doing a video. The stropping speed experiment thread is somewhere in the stropping section I guess, if you ever want to check it out.

You might not be wrong about the speed - the whole reason we did the experiment in the first place was that I was the same - I thought the frictional heat on the very thin edge may in fact help align it better or make it more malleable when stropping, and therefore that speed would help in this. But based on what we did (and again let me stress it was not highly rigorous although it was pretty well controlled for what we were doing) it seems that if there is indeed an effect of speed it is undetectable to the naked face! :)

James.

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Originally Posted by pinklather

One thing I loved about Glen's 3/11 beginner's tips thread was the technique of laying a hanging strop on a hard, flat surface, taking the requirement for keeping tension out of the equation.

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That's also one reason for (good quality) paddle and bench strops.


2005xfr, glad to see it worked out for you. The common understanding is that stropping on leather re-aligns the edge after it has been microscopically (for lack of a better word) dulled by cutting through stubble. I personally doubt there's such a thing as 'over-stropping' and that when everything is re-aligned, there's no improvement. I have found though that there is a threshold of laps, a minimum. In my experience, it takes around 40-60 laps on a good strop to achieve such re-alignment (or if it is something else, a good result). So if your technique is good, I seriously doubt that it's possible to make 'too many laps', yet understropping is possible.

I also believe that stropping is an underestimated aspect of getting a great shaving edge. I have tried on occasion to shave without stropping and NONE of those shaves were acceptable, resulting in pulling and irritation.

I think that smooth, confident and consistent strokes, whether on hone or strop, are what leads to success. When you have those qualities, a little speed comes with the territory. It doesn't work the other way around.

A paddle strop does solve the issue of strop tension. It also takes out most of the deflection as far as I can tell. I'm not sure if that really matters, but it's worth mentioning. I have at times suspected that the lack of deflection is harming my result when using a paddle strop. The last time I honed, I just left the tape on before going to the paddle (plain leather).

Michael

For me, pushing the razor's edge down into the leather while stropping results in a dramatically sharper and smoother blade than if I strop lightly and tentatively.

In my video on the Main page, the upper video of the two, I routinely begin stropping at the correct pace and then speed up from there. So in all my videos the proper speed is when I am going the slowest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

In my video on the Main page, the upper video of the two, I routinely begin stropping at the correct pace and then speed up from there. So in all my videos the proper speed is when I am going the slowest.

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IMO it bears repeating. Alan should have put in a link to his vids, there is something in them for all of us.

Welcome!!

As I believe you've already found, this is the most helpful, informative and friendly site on the web!!

While this link isn't exactly about what your problem is/but it's going to help you, I do think that you will find it useful, especially since Glen (GSSIXGUN) wrote it! Enjoy the reading!

I hope you will enjoy and again, Welcome!

Straight Razor Place - Beginners Tips: January 2012

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Originally Posted by JeffR

For me, pushing the razor's edge down into the leather while stropping results in a dramatically sharper and smoother blade than if I strop lightly and tentatively.

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For me , pushing the razor's edge down into the leather while stropping results in 2 strops :roflmao
I'm sure that's not what you meant :)

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

For me , pushing the razor's edge down into the leather while stropping results in 2 strops :roflmao
I'm sure that's not what you meant :)

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Last time I tried that I sliced my strop in two!

I like to concentrate on technique, and then speed, but I find I need to check my speed at times, to concentrate on form. I consider myself foolish if I stupidly relinquish control and wreck the edge...

I strop my razors 50 to 100 times between shaves and have never found stropping dulled the blades. Has anyone had an experience where they stropped a blade so much that is actually make the blade dull?

No, not at all. I do 30/70 prior to the shave and 10/10 post shave. Dulling a razor from stropping would surely be a result of poor form.