Does rapid stropping really heat the razor?

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10-13-2012, 04:24 AM
mumpig

Does rapid stropping really heat the razor?

I have read in a few places on SRP that one of the values of rapid stropping is that it heats the razor sufficiently to soften it and allow the edge to remodel. I am not a metallurgist but it seems to me that a temperature sufficient to allow that to happen would at the very least be uncomfortable to the touch. My stropping is not all that rapid -- I can do 50 roundtrips in about as many seconds without endangering the edge, the strop or my fingers. After I did that I rapidly placed the blade flat against my face and it barely felt warm. So my question is...can rapid stropping really heat the edge to any degree? Just wondering. Maybe I'm just not fast enough yet.
10-13-2012, 04:33 AM
CaliforniaCajun

I'll be interested in some responses from fast stroppers, but I really don't think stropping does anything but remove debris (metal shavings if it was just honed, soap from the last shave, etc.). I don't think you can whip the blade over the strop in such a frenzy that it would heat up enough to alter the metal state.

I can't strop fast. Period. And I have been doing it for 2 1/2 years.
10-13-2012, 04:36 AM
JimmyHAD

I am capable of very fast stropping though I normally use a moderate pace. I've stropped very fast 50 round trips and laid the full hollow against my cheek and I could not detect any temperature change .:shrug:
10-13-2012, 05:05 AM
JohnnyCakeDC

I think if temperature effects anything, its the strop. Stropping is nothing more, or less than finely polishing the fine edge. That is all I have to say about that.
10-13-2012, 11:02 PM
thebigspendur

If anything got hot it would be the very edge which is microns thin and you wouldn't feel that. We have discussed this before and I don't remember what the outcome was. I just accept the fact stropping dresses the edge and leave it at that.
10-14-2012, 02:32 AM
mumpig

Good enough for me. Thanks.
10-14-2012, 03:01 AM
Johnus

Does rapid stropping really heat the razor?

It's an issue of turning Mechanical Energy to Thermal Energy. It happens at the point of contact because of the friction produced by the edge coming in contact with the strop. I really don't think it's something that we can measure because of how the heat is dissipated by the metal and the leather.
Yes, it's one of those Santa and Resting things.
10-14-2012, 05:50 AM
Samuel

I know this is cheating. But I used a wheel strop at 90-120 rpm. I think this is not as fast as my moderate stropping, but it warms the blade a little.
10-14-2012, 03:28 PM
epd

Re: Does rapid stropping really heat the razor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel

I know this is cheating. But I used a wheel strop at 90-120 rpm. I think this is not as fast as my moderate stropping, but it warms the blade a little.

I have never heard of a wheel strop, can you post a picture?

Eric.
10-14-2012, 04:26 PM
mainaman

How fast is fast? 30 strokes per minute? 60 strokes per minute?
How much pressure was used? Speed and pressure will determine how much heat is generated on the edge. I go with about 35 passes both ways, I have not had any issues with the edge.
10-15-2012, 04:35 PM
DaveW

I don't believe that to be the case, either, or the razor itself would get warm enough that you could feel it.

In order for the edge to lose temper, it would probably have to (on carbon steel razors) get to 300 degrees. Even at that, it would still be hard. All the time it's backed by cold metal and it's against a cold strop. If there as a serious amount of heat at the end, you would see a bevel that had straw temper on it somewhere, which starts to occur around 450 degrees.

What probably really happens (based on the pop-mechanics pictures from the 30s) is that whatever is loose is ripped off, and there is probably some level of adhesive wear that follows that and rounds the edge a tiny bit, even if the strop is fairly hard (with minimal rounding) or soft (more rounding).

Wear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This stuff gets talked about in woodworking all the time, because the wear is much more pronounced and for what it's worth, I haven't seen any decline in the amount of arguing going on there in the last 5 years, either. (how much wear is adhesive, and how much is abrasive, how much friction is caused in hand tool use, ...).
10-16-2012, 09:28 AM
Samuel

Quote:

Originally Posted by epd

I have never heard of a wheel strop, can you post a picture?

Eric.

Will do in a couple days for another post, or look up Tormek sharpening system.
10-16-2012, 11:07 AM
Wintchase

If fast stropping worked, i would use it it to carterize the wounds as I shaved...
10-16-2012, 12:19 PM
stimpy52

Re: Does rapid stropping really heat the razor?

Give me a minute, I have strops that need me to hack them up trying to speed - strop.
10-16-2012, 01:00 PM
unit

During moments of lapsed logic, I have stropped pretty fast and taken fairly long strokes. I can tell you that on the webbing, there was some definite heat generated (I placed the spine of the razor against my wrist and it was warmer than when I started). That said, it was not warmer than it is when I place it under a stream of hot water in the sink.

Is this heat generated significant? I have no response to that one;)

They make leather belts for grinders...I would guess you could get steel glowing on one of those. If I am correct....Deductive reasoning would suggest that if you can get a lot of heat with these, you could get a little heat with non-powered methods.

Edit to add...I have not used leather, but I have used bare felt wheel and I can promise you that it does generate heat.
10-16-2012, 01:10 PM
hoglahoo

Regarding the razor's edge: it doesn't take much to remodel the very thin, honed edge of a straight razor.

Regarding the heat: my thinking is that a little warmth on the strop after rubbing it down or stropping awhile is just an indication that a nap is being raised, which is a good thing. So maybe it's okay to associate good stropping with a little heat being generated - but I don't think that the warmth on the strop is enough to produce any practical effect
10-16-2012, 02:18 PM
Bruno

Regarding the heat: in theory yes, but in practice I doubt that you can strop hard enough that is would be measurably affect anything. Temper is affected near 170 degrees celcius. It won't be a problem.
10-16-2012, 02:21 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

Regarding the heat: in theory yes, but in practice I doubt that you can strop hard enough that is would be measurably affect anything. Temper is affected near 170 degrees celcius. It won't be a problem.

Taking it a step further ..... it just occurred to me that is the blade reached that temperature it would probably burn the strop . :beer2:
10-16-2012, 07:23 PM
honedright

I tried...

Disrupted time-space, smoking razor and strop vanished into a worm hole and I never got a chance to shave with it.
10-16-2012, 07:55 PM
hoglahoo

1 Attachment(s)

You must have hit that 88 mph threshold

Attachment 109517
10-16-2012, 08:09 PM
IamSt8ght

Speed stropping is useful when you need a night light. The glow of the hot blade helps me find stuff in the dark.
10-16-2012, 08:41 PM
roughkype

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamSt8ght

Speed stropping is useful when you need a night light. The glow of the hot blade helps me find stuff in the dark.

...like the other half of the strop.
10-17-2012, 02:10 AM
mumpig

Well...I can sure smoke things up on a belt grinder but it pretty much erases the temper and I don't think a straight razor would survive except as a toothpick, and a soft one at that. As far as the wheel strop, I didn't know you were talking about a Tormek. I have one of those and it never occured to me to try it on a razor, probably because none of the sages on SRP said it was OK. It is a good way to put a nice, exact bevel angle on a knife where you want precision. It depends on an arm that clamps the blade over the grinding wheel and you use that to determine the bevel angle. I don't see how that would work on a straight razor with its "built in bevel determination system (the spine)."
10-17-2012, 05:02 AM
honedright

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

You must have hit that 88 mph threshold

Attachment 109517

That facial expression is familiar...
10-17-2012, 02:51 PM
hoglahoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by honedright

That facial expression is familiar...

That's Christopher Lloyd's face when he sees serious $#!%
12-08-2012, 11:28 PM
PA23-250

If this were true, & you really heated the edge enough to soften it, you would ruin the steel's temper & it wouldn't shave anything anymore. In the words of Adam & Jamie: BUSTED!:chop:

Where I suspect this got started is, if you warm the strop a bit (whether by fast stropping or palm rubbing) you increase its draw & pliability & make it more likely to contact the entire edge of the razor & do its useful work realigning everything.
12-09-2012, 02:38 AM
honedright

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I am capable of very fast stropping though I normally use a moderate pace. I've stropped very fast 50 round trips and laid the full hollow against my cheek and I could not detect any temperature change .:shrug:

That may not be the razor's fault.....
12-09-2012, 04:11 AM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by honedright

That may not be the razor's fault.....

Bored tonight huh ?
12-09-2012, 04:52 AM
honedright

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Bored tonight huh ?

Not any more than last night.
12-09-2012, 04:59 AM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by honedright

Not any more than last night.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I know the feeling. :p
12-09-2012, 06:18 AM
sheffieldlover

So to test this myth I made a video of myself rapidly stropping a 6/8 dovo ten thousand times to see if it got hot. Anyone wanna watch the 3 hour video? :)
12-09-2012, 04:04 PM
SirStropalot

Fast stropping a razor to heat it with friction seems comparable to rubbing two sticks together to heat your electric range. If heat helps the stropped edge, rinse the blade under hot tap water for about 15 or 20 seconds, dry it and strop away. Try holding that on your cheek or inner wrist before you strop. :cry:

Brought to you by the - Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Strops - !!!

Regards,
Howard :D