Strop tension: loose or taut?

Hi,

During the sharpening course, the instructor told us that the leather on our paddle strops should be loose. i.e. no tension.
Lynn's shaving movie also shows Lynn stropping on a loose hanging strop (if I interpreted correctly what he was doing.

But there are other posts on this forum with people saying the strop should be stretched taut.

could anyone provide some insight?

P.S. form another thread I understood that thebigspendur has created a large document on stropping technique. where can I find that?

You should stretch it but not so you bend the hanging hook. Just enough to keep it flat. The strop does bow a bit, but not too much.

I agree with Ilija. I keep my strop about as tight as I can get it. It' impossible to get it completely flat, though, so there's a happy medium.

The videos you'll see kind of exaggerate the bowing, since they're shot from the side. My strop bows about 1/4 of an inch at most.

Josh

Without a doubt Taut. I keep mine as taut as possible when stropping.

I have a beefy eye-bolt lagged into a stud in my bathroom and what I do is find a good place to stand and then lean back to keep the strop taut. Mind you, it's not like I'm putting a lot of weight into it. Just enough to keep it nice and taut. It makes it easier on the arm holding the strop and lets me concentrate on the stropping motions.

I have an eye bolt screwed into the thick particle board that makes up the bathroom counter and fastened with a washer and a nut on the back end. It won't pull out or bend, so I pull fairly hard on my strop. My left arm muscles are just a bit tired afterward.

Josh

See?? Another benefit to using a straight razor. Not only is it a more sanitary form of shaving, and better for the skin (exfoliation), it's a form of exercise as well!

:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshearl

I have an eye bolt screwed into the thick particle board that makes up the bathroom counter and fastened with a washer and a nut on the back end. It won't pull out or bend, so I pull fairly hard on my strop. My left arm muscles are just a bit tired afterward.

Josh

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Tension on a strop is relative to the weight you lay the razor on with. If you are suffering arm ache then you are possibly applying too much tension. Greater the hollow, lesser the weight and tension.

PuFF

Right now I'm finding it easier to keep my strop taut and the razor flat with the extra tension. As I'm getting better, though, I feel the tension easing up gradually.

I also seem to need more tension at the outset, when I'm using more pressure. Otherwise I don't feel much drag. Once I get to about 20 laps or so I can feel the drag even when I let up on the pressure a bit.

I have a lot to learn still in this stropping area. I'm grateful honedright brought it to my attention with his recent post.

Josh

First few strokes on a strop have less draw imo. Something happens to the leather after a few strokes that make the draw even. Possibly heat/friction brings the oils in the leather to the right temp to effect a better draw. Someone with techy no-how might explain this?

PuFF

I was taught to keep it taut. :D

X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PuFFaH

Tension on a strop is relative to the weight you lay the razor on with. If you are suffering arm ache then you are possibly applying too much tension. Greater the hollow, lesser the weight and tension.

PuFF

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I *really* need to revive this!

PuFF is a stropmeister. I am not even close, but would like to learn.

The quote I inserted - first too sentences are clear. The bold text though - not so much.

Namely, for hollows (lesser weight) I do use less pressure indeed but I find I want to / need to keep the strop much tighter than I can get away with for a wedge. I do the opposite of less tension - because it just feels right for the hollows.

I am interested to hear more on this

Cheers
Ivo

Ivo,
I notice a difference in razors when I strop too. I will often use a strop with less draw when doing a full hollow or any razor with a "delicate" feel like my TI Egyptian. On heavier grinds, half hollows, etc...I like more draw, less tension.



Tony

I'm definitely not a honemeister, but have come to realize that different grinds need slightly different techniques.

I generally keep my strop well-tensioned regardless of grind - as, for me, it takes that variable out of the equation and I can concentrate on how much pressure I use when stropping.

There's actually a fair bit of difference in the amount of pressure I use when stropping a 1/4 hollow vs something as thinly ground as a DD (I never really bear down on any razor, but there is a noticeable difference).

I also am getting a strop from Tony with less draw than my red latigo strop as I do think a strop with less draw might give me better results with the lighter grinds - that being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with my current strop, I just like to complicate things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Ivo,
I notice a difference in razors when I strop too. I will often use a strop with less draw when doing a full hollow or any razor with a "delicate" feel like my TI Egyptian. On heavier grinds, half hollows, etc...I like more draw, less tension.



Tony

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Exactly, Tony! I also like less draw + more tension + lighter touch for full hollows and more draw + less tension + more pressure / heavier stroke for heavier grinds. Seems Chris is on the same page...

This goes against what PuFF was saying - "less tension for full follows" - so I was trying to understand more

Cheers
Ivo

IVO,
Puff goes contrary to many of our opinions but has a system that works very well for him and has lots of experience to draw on. His methods works for him and in e-mails we have exchanged I respect his knowledge and quest to perfect his methods. It shows that there are no hard set rules for this and we should experiment a little and develop what works for us.

It's great for newbies to have guidelines to follow but they should not fear to venture into uncharted territory and develop new methods.

My approach to much of this may not be typical anyway. By day I am scientist and engineer in a metals testing lab. I test and experiment and develop ideas based on those tests in the lab. By night I use the same approach with my strops. On my time though, what little is left, I use a gut feeling, emperical approach. A certain method just "feels" right when I do it. It's almost a zen visualization of what the metal, leather, edge is doing when I strop. Strange, I know but I can almost "see" this all happen in my mind when working.

Tony

Tony - thank you for the extensive post.

I didn't know PuFF is such a radical :) and I do respect his knowledge and experience - this is why I decided to revive the thread.

Yes, I also try to see how things come together in my mind and go by feel. I guess my feel and instinct coincides with yours but not with PuFF's. The thing is, we all know how elusive and plain wrong feel may be (as numerous psycho-physio -etc. experiments have proven) so I am just trying to learn as much as I can

Cheers
Ivo

Ivo,
Not saying he is radical at all. I am saying he bases his opinions on his personal experience, not just want he has read or what "ought to work". I meant my comments as a compliment to him as a fellow who developed his own path on much of this. He sees the taut/loose issue opposite you and I but has his own real reasons that work.

Many of the e-mails and calls I get are from guys who have read this or that and are perplexed as soon as they read something different. It's different for all of us.


When I started making strops I began based on not being 100% happy with what I could buy. I made what I thought would work using leathers that I chose through experimentation not based on what I ought to use. There is a large scrap pile to go with the proven products <g>. I read posts daily from guys wanting to make strops, etc.... asking about what they should use down to the last detail. if you wanted a duplicate of what's already been done, simply buy a commercial product. If you want a better mousetrap design one based on why the others don't work for you.

Tony

Tony,

I was just kidding about PuFF - being a foreigner sometimes I am not perfectly understood - both on language and intention level. What I said was certainly not meant to be disrespectful!

For the guys asking details how to duplicate strops - I think it may be just that they don't have too much extra $ but can spend several hours and save the labor costs... And not having too much extra $ they don't want to spend more $ experimenting...

On a separate note - Tony, please, check your e-mail - I am trying to order a couple of tidbits from you

Cheers
Ivo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xman

I was taught to keep it taut. :D

X

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That's what I tought --good tinking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

I *really* need to revive this!

PuFF is a stropmeister. I am not even close, but would like to learn.

The quote I inserted - first too sentences are clear. The bold text though - not so much.

Namely, for hollows (lesser weight) I do use less pressure indeed but I find I want to / need to keep the strop much tighter than I can get away with for a wedge. I do the opposite of less tension - because it just feels right for the hollows.

I am interested to hear more on this



Cheers
Ivo

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Ivo
With a wedge I can use a lot of weight when stropping so a taught strop is needed, with a full hollow I will not use a lot of weight when I strop it, so I can lessen the tension on the strop to compensate. In effect I gain the same arc/bow in the strop with both razors but working from both ends of the scale. I am not a lover of over weighting the full hollows when stropping but rather letting the feel sound draw tell me how heavy to go. With a wedge I think you can be heavier in stropping and use a heavy draw strop and still get a great edge. This is not to say that a light weight and less tension on a wedge will not work either. I favour low to medium draw for strops and tend to use the low draw for hollows and high draw for wedges. I always lessen the pressure towards the final few stokes on the strop whilst shortening the distance travelled over the strop so that I finish on very short light pressure medium tension.

I hope that resolves my statement for you Ivo.

Puff
I

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

Tony - thank you for the extensive post.

I didn't know PuFF is such a radical :) and I do respect his knowledge and experience - this is why I decided to revive the thread.

Yes, I also try to see how things come together in my mind and go by feel. I guess my feel and instinct coincides with yours but not with PuFF's. The thing is, we all know how elusive and plain wrong feel may be (as numerous psycho-physio -etc. experiments have proven) so I am just trying to learn as much as I can

Cheers
Ivo

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I am starting to get the idea that I am "against the grain" on a lot of I think also Ivo :) To be honest I am hard pressed to put words on paper about how I achieve things and this lets me down some what.
The term FORUM allows free exchange of ideas and experiance. Big thumbs up for this forum imo, as such no remark will be taken as an insult but used by me to re-evaluate my technique and theory.

Cheers Ivo and Tony

PuFF

Puff,
That sound exactly like what I do. Heavier draw and pressure/tension on heavy razors, lighter draw and pressure/tension on light razors. I start heavier and finish light.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Puff,
That sound exactly like what I do. Heavier draw and pressure/tension on heavy razors, lighter draw and pressure/tension on light razors. I start heavier and finish light.

Tony

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Yipeee!!!

So I'm not strange :) Tony I will post soon on the Thuringen experiment, Not bad news so far :)

PuFF

Sounds to me like you know exactly what your talking about!

PuFF - thank you very much for the details!

Yes, I also start heavier and then gradualy lighten and shorten the stroke - going by feel and sound. I also like more pressure and draw on the wedges.

However, I *may* use more slack / allow more bow in the strop with a wedge. This helps me get more draw from the strop at the edge, I think. For hollows - I also like lighter pressure / less draw like you BUT with my strop, I feel I have to pull it tighter than I do with wedges in order to achieve lesser drag.

I guess our major difference is that I allow more strop bow with wedges than I do with hollows. I will try your approach to see if I get better results

Thanks again
Ivo