DOVO vs. Miller

Yup I'm doing it...regardless of it having been done before I'm asking the question. I received some wonderful shave gear for Xmas this year including a REAL brush to replace my Walgreens special and a third vintage razor bringing my current collection/rotation to three. After almost 2 years of interest in straight razors my wife finally came to the conclusion that I've lost my mind and will be shaving straight for eternity and therefore sees fit to spend and allow money to be spent on my shaving habits.

That being said I'm probably going to be picking up the final components missing from my shaving arsenal, a set of Norton stones and a strop to replace my strip-o-canvas that has been getting me along through the past year or so. The stones were an easy call but the strop is a little more difficult for me and I have it narrowed down to either
DOVO "Extra Wide" Russian Leather Strop
or
Tony Miller's Best Wide 3" Hanger

Both are the same price, and because both Tony AND ClassicShaving are highly supported here there's no REAL reason to choose one over another outside of actual quality and performance. SO...and this is in no way meant as a dig at Tony's work since I have no prior experience...which is the better buy?

MY opinion leans towards Tony because a hand built piece would seem like a better buy and than a mass produced commercial product BUT seeing as how the shaving world is smallish the DOVOs could be a fantastic piece of work as well...that's why I am asking here.

I have two smaller Dovo strops that have been relegated to travel strop and brother-in-law x-mas gift since I got my Tony Miller. I got the #1 Heirloom with the thick black latigo on one side and the honey brown on the other and it is just something to behold. I feel the rush of power when I grab the ring to strop my razor.
Sort of like He-Man when he holds up his sword and says "By the power of Greyskull!" The Dovo never inspired such He-Man musings.

:D

I haven't tried a Dovo, but I would guess that Tony's strops are a better deal. Since Tony's a smaller operation, my hunch is that he spends less on advertising and other corporate-style overhead items. That's more money per strop to put into materials, since we all know he doesn't make any profit on this. :)

Plus Tony's a stand-up kinda guy, and when he tells you a razor is shave-ready you KNOW it's shave ready, not just beveled on some funky belt grinder contraption.

Just my 2 cents,
Josh

I have one Dovo strop (I bought it before 'Tony Miller Strops' were availible), and I also own a few makes by Tony....

If given the money, I'd buy a 'Tony' strop. Dovo makes great strops, I just prefer Tony's Red Latigo strops......

C utz

Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking in a nutshell...smaller operation and hand crafted beauty versus big name commercialism. I just wanted to get a few more opinions from the group before I made any kind of decision. Basically I'm looking at around $200 worth of equipment to supplement my shaving between a pair of Norton's and a strop and I want to make damn sure I get the most for my money no matter how the money falls. Of course I've still got to convince my wife to let me drop the $200, and it may have to come in a couple of installments rather than all at once.

After that I get to start working on convincing her that it's OK for me to drop the $260 on a TI limited I've been drooling over for almost 2 years...

In my opinion you will not find finer workmanship than a Tony Miller strop anywhere. Nor could you contact Dovo and discuss your needs to find the perfect strop for you when you arent sure what to get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLStorm

In my opinion you will not find finer workmanship than a Tony Miller strop anywhere. Nor could you contact Dovo and discuss your needs to find the perfect strop for you when you arent sure what to get.

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Sorry for the :HJ but this is one thing that's really cool about SRP. It's like we've formed a little cyber community that has some aspects of what life must have been like 100 years ago. We have skilled craftsmen who care about their customers and take time to customize products for them. We have friendly neighbors who chip in to help folks in need and somtimes even, gasp, do something nice for someone.

I'm proud to be here. :D

Josh

And to bring us right back to it, I'll throw in my hat with Tony. I've made several purchases from him, including one of his hangers and they were all absolutely great deals. You won't go wrong if you buy from him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshearl

Plus Tony's a stand-up kinda guy, and when he tells you a razor is shave-ready you KNOW it's shave ready, not just beveled on some funky belt grinder contraption.

Just my 2 cents,
Josh

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Thanks guys, as always. Do believe me when I say Classic also has a stand up reputation. They too tell you up front a new razor is not shave ready and when they offer a shave ready honing job it WILL be shave ready as well. Lynn does the razors Classic offers the sharpening service on. Classic and I are probably the only 2 places offering new shave ready razors.

Again, thanks for your support but I did want to set the record straight on sharpening and Classic Shaving.

Tony

Tony,

Good catch. Wasn't meaning to diss Classic Shaving or--heaven forbid--Lynn. Sorry about that. I was referring to Dovo, whose claim that its razors are shave ready has caused a lot of pain for newbies...

I should be more careful...

Josh

My guess is that Tony's strop is a thicker, better quality leather. That being said, I don't have experience with either of their 3" wide strops. I have a narrow Dovo and a narrow TM strop. The Dovo is probably only half as thick and not nearly as nicely (smoothly) finished as Tonys.
That being said, if you truly want to save some money, take some trips to some antique stores and look around. You can probably find one of similar quality that may require a little bit of work to get up to usable condition. It will be a little difficult finding a 3" wide one, but it depends what's more important to you.
Finally, if it comes down to "bang for your buck", go with Tony's strop, because ,IMHO, Classic's shipping rates are pretty high and Tony stands behind everything he sells.
Good Luck and let us know what you end up purchasing!
-Fred

I'm happy to see you sign in on this thread Tony...and happier to say I talked the wife into it and you will be receiving an order tonight for a new strop. The hones will be bought in a moment as well and I could not be happier. The final things I lack in my shaving rotation are finally getting bought!

I was leaning towards a Tony Miller strop from the start but like any sane consumer I wanted a second opinion from an experienced third party before committing to an expenditure of this size (no offense meant Tony but no matter how you look at ANYONE'S work it's a goodly chunk of change) I just want to be sure I'm getting something that is TRULY worth the money. Now I am sure I'll be getting something worth owning and will be proud to use in my daily life. In fact just the fact that you are weighing in here yourself makes me more confident in my purchase than anything else...try putting a face behind DOVO or a real name for that matter.

gawker,

what norton hones are you getting? more then just the combo?


- buy the 4/8k norton combo
- buy a tony miller 2 sided (smooth/smooth) bench strop and have him pre-past it with 1.0um and 0.5um
- buy a #1 best 3" red latigo hanging strop that you were planning on doing.


that set up will do you wonders for a very very long time. yes i suggested a bench strop double pasted instead of a finishing hone, this will also allow you easy and pain-free/ no mess touch ups when you blades start to pull just a tad. i couldn't be more happy since i bought mine the 1st week they were out.

~J

I've got a Dovo strop, and it's a dandy. Nicely made. Nothing wrong with it. Yet, I always use Tony's strops. Always!

RT

Another vote for a Tony Miller Strop--for all of the reasons listed above.

I realy rate the Dovo 3" russian for the quality of the leather and finish. They come all set and just a light application of yellow strop paste and your away. Same goes for thier best russian 2" with linen.

Tonys Stops are very well made and his service is tops. I love my Latigo now after I spent ages getting it setup, but found the Honey was poorly tanned and cant take dressing without hide imperfections showing and stretching badly. All that aside, I would recomend him with no worries.

I feel you have limited yourself a bit with just looking at 2 makes though, there are otjher equally as good and better out there if you look. Remember the hide thickness in no way affects a strops performance, only the way it has been tanned!!

PuFF

p.s. When you order a strop, make sure you specify that the strop is not folded but losely rolled in the parceling, will save you a great deal of heartache and time!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jscott

?
- buy the 4/8k norton combo
- buy a tony miller 2 sided (smooth/smooth) bench strop and have him pre-past it with 1.0um and 0.5um
- buy a #1 best 3" red latigo hanging strop that you were planning on doing.


that set up will do you wonders for a very very long time. yes i suggested a bench strop double pasted instead of a finishing hone, this will also allow you easy and pain-free/ no mess touch ups when you blades start to pull just a tad. i couldn't be more happy since i bought mine the 1st week they were out.

~J

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This is great advice - I have basically the same set up, with the exception that I have a 4-sided pasted paddle instead of the bench strop. I'm likely going to add a bench strop to my set up and have it pasted with something other than diamond pastes to give me some variety.

I have a smaller Dovo strop and it is a fine quality strop. Tony's hanging strops are much heavier and the linen seems a little coarser than the Dovos. I agree with PuFF in that my red latigo did take a bit to work in, but I think that's normal.

Other strops to consider are the Illinois 361, which is supposed to be a good strop and Handamerican strops (not available now as they are being redesigned).

If you're looking for a 3" wide strop, you're limited to Dovo, Tony or Handamerican (if you're willing to wait). If I had to do it again, I'd still buy the strop from Tony - he was very helpful in explaining the leather options and both the quality of his strops and his service are first rate.

I may have just got a bad piece of the cows butt with my Latigo :)
It strops fine but is not as satifying to use as the 3" Dovo russian. On the latigo u get disscharge from the strop and a course fealing as the razor moves over it, while leaving light streaks in the strops surface. I find it strops the softer steel razors a treat. I'll say again though, the Latigo strops OK.
With the honey, I found the hide too stretchy and soft to be of any use, so, I went though a dressing procedure on it and found it came up better but all the hidden imperfections in the leather came out making it an unviable option for a strop. This could be just my bad luck but worth asking Tony about before you buy a Honey strop.
I am sure the Dovo strops are mass produced but I don't think this affects thier quality in any way. I have 3 top end Dovo strops and have yet to do any dressing to them to get them working correctly. I will point out again that, as with all things, one mans experience is not the rule.

PuFF

I ordered a pair of Norton's in 4K/8K and 220/1K because I feel like that will give me the best overall general setup for honing and maintaining my vintage blades as well as anything I might acquire down the road even to the point I have to start some restoration work above and beyond removing some black spots and polishing things up a little bit.

On the strop I went ahead and ordered Tony's 3" Honey Brown because it appealed to me more aesthetically than did the Latigo, and I ordered it before the comments against it were made above. However, having placed the order less than 12 hours ago in the middle of the night and already having a response in my email from Tony to the couple of questions I put with my order...makes me confident that should I REALLY feel as disappointed as PuFFaH Tony will be there to lend a hand either with advice repair/replacement...whatever is needed to make things right. Then again if the only thing wrong with the strop is a couple of freckles from the cows ass I'll be happy...I'm buying a tool that happens to be nice to look at not a work of art to hang on the wall and not be touched :p

Puff,
I am sorry you were not pleased with the Honey Brown. I use one myself almost daily and actually find it best with no dressing at all as a smooth finishing strop. Same with the Latigo, I always suggest using it as it comes for a week or two before ading anything. As I recall from your initial e-mail you did quite a bit of prep on the Latigo before really using it and then said you felt you should have left it alone.

Not everyone will like every product ad part of the reason people buy from me is after sale service. If anyone is not pleased, and that rarely happens, all you need to do is ask and get a refund or replacement. I would also prefer to hear of any issues up front so I have a chance to correct it in case you just got a bad piece instead of hearing about it months later on a forum.

Puff, I know you expressed some reservations on the Latigo after you did your extensive strop prep routine but I didn;t realize you were unhappy with it or the Honey brown. Just let me know next time. Your prep work sounded interesting and may be a handy addition for anyone restoring an older strop from ebay if you care to share it.

Take care,
Tony

Tony
Not being a novice at SR shaving, I know how a strop should work and tried to use the Latigo as it came, but found it too oily and uneven. I could not have used it as it was for long without getting to the stage of sending it back. Not wanting to give up on what is a fine piece of leather and your quality workmanship, I decided to try and rectify this problem. On the whole it has worked and in no way would I part with it now. It is too good to send back to you....it's mine I tell ya!! :)
The Honey is possibly a different matter, stretch in a strop is not the best idea, but this is still a work in progress and will not be returned.
Like I said, I was just unluky with the leather.

If anyone reading these posts feels that Tony does not supply good products, then you have read them wrong. I in no way condem Tonys workmanship or products. We are dealing with natural materials here and as such, variation can accure from time to time. Tony maintains a no quibble returns policy so there is no gamble imo.
I have offered advice and experiance on this matter to inform the potential buyer what to look for, but in effect I have put the proverbial foot in it. Tony can't try every strop out that leaves his workshop, so he can not be blamed for the way a cow decides to grow it's skin:).
My sincere appology Tony for putting this on public forum. My only excuse is, I felt there was no problem. (if you buy a natural product you should not be supprised by its variations, this is why I did'nt return them)

PuFF

p.s. I still feel I need to say more in Tonys defence :(

Puff,
No hard feelings at all and surely no further apologies needed, really. I know you are very experienced with strops and had set expectaions. These were not quite it, either the leathers in general or maybe this was a poor example. No worries, you voiced an honest concern with your particular strops and I only wished I knew up front so I could have helped. That was my only beef. You spent hard earned money and should have exactly what you wanted.

I appreciate you coming forward and clearing up your thoughts and any suggestions are taken to heart by me. I have added, changed and deleted products based on feedback just like yours. It is appreciated.

Now, the project for 2007 is to grow consistant cows <g>. It is a battle finding leather I like and this is why certain choice appear and vanish at random from my website. I just got a beautiful Latigo hide here (non-returnable) that is useless for strops. It can't even be used for seconds but would make a great briefcase or satchel but not strops.......so, if you see me selling leather on eBay, DON"T BID <g>.

Puff, enjoy the new year, we are fine!

Tony

Appreciate that Tony, big weight off my chest.
I wish you and your family a fruitfull and happy new year.

PuFF

Puff,
I have to ask, is that beautiful boat in your avatar yours? I know you have a love for wooden boats.

Tony

Yes the boat is mine.
She is a 36' length on deck, 6'6" draft, 7'6" beam, 1887 GL Watson Gaff Cutter. Pitch pine on grown oak frames and yellow pine decks. All still original from her date of build. VERY RARE! I am ruining her though by installing an engine :( Poor boat has never had one till I got hold of her :) The purists will hate us for it.

/me does a random dance waiting for his new toys...step...turn...step-step...LEAP!

I can't really add much to the conversation since my only strop is the Dovo one from ClassicShaving.com but from such limited experience in dealing with the strop it seems to be working very well for me.
The padded handle is very nice to hold but you're interested in the 3" wide one which has a ring I believe, not a handle.

And as for customer service from ClassicShaving, I had a wonderful experience dealing with them :)
Highly recommended!

Let me just add a nice plug for Classic Shaving's Will Lubrano. I was after a few razors to make a 7 day set from, kind of a mixed bag of related razors. I, a competitor, e-mailed Classic to enquire if any were in shorter supply than others and that there I would start my set. Will e-mailed back that one in particular had only a single example left and he was kind enough to pull it from stock and from the website until I decided if I wanted it. Of course I will be buying it.

I do much the same thing but remember that Classic is a larger operation and it may not be as easy for them to be as personal for each and every buyer simply because of the volume of enquiries but they have always done a nice job when I have e-mailed or called.

I don't think you would go wrong buying a strop from either of us if basing this on service alone. Our products may be different but service will be first class at either.

We are all (me included) very lucky to have such nice resources available to us. We have real dealers like Classic, Vintage Blades, Colleen's soaps, etc.... as well as many smaller individual operations like Billy's Blades, Lynn and the Maestro's razors, Joe Chandler, Matt's brushes, etc.... It's almost like stepping back to the turn of the century (not the most recent one) where each consumer knew his local shop keepers by name, and they knew you. While I have not dealt with all of these people I would not have a moment's hesitation in e-mailing or calling any of them for advice in a purchase. Try doing that with the big mega stores.

Tony

Well said and even better taken. I'm not sure about the competitor comment though Tony. You may deal in similar product but I consider you in a much different niche from CS. I haven't dealt with the people at CS before, but the stash of shaving goodies I got for Xmas a few weeks ago was all purchased by my wife and sister from them and they have nothing but wonderful things to say about it. Now that I know my wife doesn't have a problem with me spending money on shaving stuff (I think she thought this was a passing fancy) I'll definitely be buying more stuff from them.

You, on the other hand, sell strops, brushes, razors, and a few other accessories but to perfectly honest you sell HANDMADE strops, a few razors and minimum of other items. Put simply, you're the strop store and they ARE the mega store of the shaving world. At least that's the way I see it...I've never found an equal. as far as selection goes, to rival ClassicShaving. And as far as I'm concerned...if the mega store provides the kind of customer service that ClassicShaving provides then it's OK in my book :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gawker

I'm not sure about the competitor comment though Tony. You may deal in similar product but I consider you in a much different niche from CS.


You, on the other hand, sell strops, brushes, razors, and a few other accessories but to perfectly honest you sell HANDMADE strops, a few razors and minimum of other items. Put simply, you're the strop store and they ARE the mega store of the shaving world.

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He's certainly a competitor, albeit perhaps in a subset of their market, in that some of the sales that he makes might otherwise go to them with the reverse also being true. While I will probably order things Tony may not deal with from them in the future there is a certain amount of lost sales that are experienced based on Tony's products being available. How much competition he represents is a different thing but it's at least one sale ;)

Personally I like the responsibility and accountability that most craftsman provide with their product. If I have a problem with a strop, for example, purchased from ClassicShaving, even if they're customer service is great, they are ultimately still middle-men in the deal. While I may get a replacement, credit, etc. they have some limitations on what can be done with another manufacturer's product. On the other hand, if I have an issue with one of Tony's strops I know that I will be dealing with the person ultimately responsible for it and the one most capable of providing whatever may resolve it. Given the choice between quality products, I'll always buy direct from someone with that added personal interest in the product over the mega-store even if it results in more effort on my part (placing orders with multiple people to get everything I need, etc.) but that's just me.

Just to clarify, by "mega store" mean those huge retailers, internet based or brick and mortar where most of the employees know nothing about what they sell.

The places I mentioned in my earlier post will find an answer for you even if they do not make the product and as I have recently found treat each other (competitors) with the same respect they show their valued customers.

I spent an enjoyable afternoon with Jim Ayars of Vintage Blades LLC on Tuesday over coffee talking about brushes and strops. All of these people are fine retailers and really care about what they do.

Tony

Another :tu vote for Tony.

I have the 4-sided pasted paddle, and the 3" latigo hanger. Beautiful, artisan quality, well built and above all highly functional pieces both. And in my (albeit limited) experience, Tony really stands behind his products and has been an extremely helpful and supportive resource for this newbie. No knock on Dovo, but I doubt they would have willingly sustained the kind of lengthy email exchanges with a digital windbag like me the way Tony has... :)