.25 Diamond on Hard Pressed Wool Felt

Rather excited - getting some hard pressed wool felt replacements for my dedicated pasting strop. And some .25 diamond spray to go with it!!

I have never used either but, pastes have always done right by me. Maybe its because I still can't hone worth a bean lol!

Either way, anyone have any insights for me with respect to the felt or the .25 diamond?

If it helps - I have a regular linen strop, a regular with 1 mil diamond, and a regular linen strop with CrOx that I'll be changing to a felt as well... And of course some leather to complement.

Thanks gents.

Hi Earcutter (love the screen name)

Like so many other things in honing, I'm just repeating what Glen has kindly shared.

I occasionally use pastes/sprays - .5m diamond on felt, CBN on Felt, Crox on leather. 'Tried asagi slurry on balsa once. 'Was glad to hear you're using felt - mostly from reports that the .25m spray can get harsh. I know Glen could describe or explain it better, but all the aggressive cutting sprays/pastes are *really* easy to overdo. They're never a substitute for good stone work. When the stone work is good - they can really shine - moving the 'feel' on the face one way or another.

My use of .5m diamond has been exclusively for either really cranky/wavy blades, or for heavy grinds that end up being silent. I'm too hooked on feedback to abide w/ a 'silent shaver'. When I do use diamond, I do 4-6 strokes w/ no pressure. Now that sounds normal until you hear that the felt I use is 6" long. Subtract the height of the blade and you're closing in on 4" of surface travel per stroke. If I were to use the .25m, I'd probably test with 10" of travel, then strop and shave. Then try 10" more and see if its still tolerably smooth. You get the idea. Overdone, or done wrong, and diamond can get harsh. If it does, all is certainly not lost. You can take some strokes on your finishing stone to smooth it out a bit, or another abrasive that better at smoothness. Crox for low cost, CBN slightly more.

Glen wrote (I hope I get this right) that in order of least to most potential for harshness, the platform or substrate you use it on matters alot. If I remember correctly, it was felt, cotton/linen,leather, balsa. Balsa having the most potential for harshness.

Let us know what you think of the spray & any tidbits you learn from the process. Its rather certain it'll produce sharpness. Your thoughts on how to use to keep it smooth is of interest.

'Hope it puts many smiles on a smooth face.

Thanks brother for the thoughtful post.

I certainly intend to go minimal and work my way up if need be. I have a razor that I know well and use to test on everything (my original straight) - so I should be able to give some honest feedback when I get to it.

Truth be told, I am getting some great edges off my stones lately, and have only been using pastes to maintain my edges, so the feedback might be slow in coming. But I'll experiment as I always do, and try to report back with some long-run observations on how the felt works with the .25, and the CrOx vs the other mediums I have used. And those other mediums have been many lol - I have used balsa, leather, glass, seat-belt material lol, linen - with all kinds of pastes.

Like I said, I am pretty stoked. It will not bother me if the .25 ends up being too keen (though it will kind of surprise me as i like keen from time to time). It's the experimenting I enjoy :). Ultimately, this ought to be fun as I have never gone lower than .5.

Thanks again - I will surely report back.

By the way - the pink lather comes after the ear cutting ;).

:chapeau

I used .25 on balsa before I got a few finishers. Still have it at my disposal. TBH, it works pretty well with lots of strop after!

David, read the link in JimR's translation below for an alternative view of using pastes

http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...tml#post777909

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

David, read the link in JimR's translation below for an alternative view of using pastes

http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...tml#post777909

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What a great read onimaru55. A million thanks. I think I'll reread that a couple of times!

From what I read - its not only a alternative view of pastes - but honing in general. Great read!

I use .25u diamond spray on one of those "Wood is Good" hone-strop things. I use it as a quick refresher occasionally, and the results have been very good.

My next diamond stropping experiment involves a 12x3" chunk of hard neoprene, sanded to 1000 grit (leave this in the sun for a while and it feels like creepily like skin) with a layer of what the ebay seller claims is 100,000 grit diamond compound. As soon as I figure out the right rigid substrate for the rubber, I'm going to glue it down and see what happens.

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Originally Posted by earcutter

By the way - the pink lather comes after the ear cutting ;). :chapeau

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Yes! I've always maintained that I don't have earlobes, but carefully sculpted flesh. Those aren't aren't jimps on my razors, they're bragging marks for every time they've made their mark. 'Love the attitude, Earcutter. Keep on experimenting.

Just remember to go easy on that stuff. It can be too much if overdone!!

Good timeing for this as I just received some 0.25 micron spray with an order from SRP and tried a shave this morninng for the first time.

I took a well shaving Filarmonica 13 finished on my SG 20K stone and treated with 10 laps of 0.25 on an extra felt pad for my modular paddle strop followed by 30 webbing and 100 leather. The blade was HHT 4-5 across its length and the shave was remarkably smooth and easy on my face. I'm happy enough to try it on another blade for tomorrow.

I know that Bayamonte finishes this way after his JNAT honing (at least sometimes) and his edges have been the best I've used. That's what prompted me to buy the spray.

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Originally Posted by GC7

Good timeing for this as I just received some 0.25 micron spray with an order from SRP and tried a shave this morninng for the first time.

I took a well shaving Filarmonica 13 finished on my SG 20K stone and treated with 10 laps of 0.25 on an extra felt pad for my modular paddle strop followed by 30 webbing and 100 leather. The blade was HHT 4-5 across its length and the shave was remarkably smooth and easy on my face. I'm happy enough to try it on another blade for tomorrow.

I know that Bayamonte finishes this way after his JNAT honing (at least sometimes) and his edges have been the best I've used. That's what prompted me to buy the spray.

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That's encouraging!

I really need to get a > 12k finishing stone. Reading the story provided on page one has me wanting to do a single lap on a fine stone after the .25. Somehow I imagine that stone to be non-synthetic. Something very glass like. Maybe a very well polished Ark?

In the mean time I'll just play with what I have.

I used to hate diamond or any sprays and pastes. Tried it again tonight and was rather pleased. Where'd you get the hard felt?

This morning I tried the 0.25 micron spray on an old restored W & B near full wedge to contrast the extra hollow ground Fillarmonica and I've never had a smoother easier shave with that razor. I'm quite pleased. Now this all could be due to how relatively poor I am using my stones :rofl2: but the results for me are what they are- a step above what I had been experiencing.

Hope your results are equally pleasing.

Hi Geoff I too have experienced great results using paste/spray.
See u aug 10 at the meet up. Roast some coffee please

Sam - I will be there ready to learn. Coffee will be freshly roasted as usual. Make a request for origin and I'll do my best to drag it out of my stash of green beans.

So I just got to say... You got to love SRD! I mean I ordered on Sunday night - it's at my door this afternoon (Wednesday)! :)

Anyway, the felt feels way cool. Also feels like something you really don't want to get moist. I can't wait!!

Attachment 170860
I dare you to make fun of the Rose shaving cream lol!! The stuff is awesome!

** Report One **

So this last week I honed up my test razor - My Dovo Best. Thursday I shaved with it - and if I can say so myself, I got an incredible shave off of it.

I grew my beard a bit, and today I gave the razor a couple of passes on the .25 treated felt pre-shave... but the felt was so cool to strop on, I continued, and did about ten passes. Oops! :)

A little concerned about the amount of passes on the .25 felt I gave the blade, I excessively stropped the blade.

When I got to shaving, I thought I had dulled my blade on my strop as I did my first couple of passes. But I noted that the blade wasn't actually pulling. Moreover, my beard was popping off like a champ. This must be the keenness everyone talks about.

I couldn't handle any more though. So I hit the CrOx and then the leather to calm her down a bit. It helped - but man was it keen. Too keen. Uncomfortable really. No where near the smooth shave I got off the stones last Thursday.

I did one pass and called it a day. Sharp - yes. Uncomfortable - yes. Uncomfortable because of my loving the feel of the felt and running the blade over the .25 excessively me thinks!!

Conclusion:

I think I'll take the blade to my finishing stone tonight or tomorrow and try see how it feels tomorrow night. If it's a nice smooth shave like last Thursdays, I'll run it twice over the CrOx, and then once on the .25 before the leather (or in my case Roo lol) and see how it shaves.

I know I overdid it today. I really wanted to start slow and see what happened, but I kind of over did it when I discovered what a pleasure stropping on the felt was like lol. Stropping on felt really feels cool lol.

** Update 2 **

I took the above blade to my 8k. I did two strokes on my face. A year ago, I would have been estatic.

Ran it over 1 micron diamond (7 strokes), then on the CrOx (5 strokes) - shaved half my face. Much better. Smooth too.

Then I did two strokes on the .25 diamond. I noted quite the difference! Shocking really!

No burn after the shave on the alum. Though I did feel a little raw after.

The stuff works!! Remarkably well really. It'll be interesting to see if its smoother next shave.


There is nothing better in my mind than a good off the stones blade, but the pastes really can improve a lacking edge. Right now I would be tempted to stop at the CrOx, but there is much more to be explored! Right now I want to mix some 1 micron work some .25 and CrOx on one strop for kicks.

But I need to explore more with the .25 :)

You may need to adjust your technique a little... Obviously.. :)

OK, so I have tried the following with respect to the .25 diamond:

- Stropping a lot with it
- Stropping a little with it

- I have used CrOx after applying it
- I have honed after applying it

Every single method, has produced an all together way too keen an edge.

Here is the kicker - as uncomfortable as it is, not once has my alum block ever said I have done something wrong post shave.

I don't need to make this work as I can get great/smooth shaves off my rocks. Moreover, I can get smooth touch ups with my 1 micron and CrOx... But man, you can tell that .25 stuff would give you another level of sharp if one could... only get it to be smooth.

I am at a dead end. Any ideas?? - otherwise this will be archived into the "that was interesting" pile of stuff populating a growing drawer of stuff that was interesting at one time lol!

David does it help the .25 if you spend some time on a strop like 150 plus laps or even more ,, I,m wondering if the ultra keen edge can be smoothed out or are you seeing it smooth as you get some shaves on it ?? thanks tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

David does it help the .25 if you spend some time on a strop like 150 plus laps or even more ,, I,m wondering if the ultra keen edge can be smoothed out or are you seeing it smooth as you get some shaves on it ?? thanks tc

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I have stropped excessively after a mere two strokes on the .25. It didn't help. Good question.

Yeah, I don't know if it'll smooth out after a couple of shaves or not. I got to be honest, after I feel the keenness now, I trade out the blade almost right away. I went ahead at first, and it did mellow a bit - that or I just manned up lol?

All said and done, smoothing out the keenness on my face is not the direction I want to take. :)

Ill have to take a .25 treated blade to my finishing stone again. Its inconseavable to me that after two or three strokes on the .25 and then going finishing hone, linen, leather... That the keenness would live on lol??

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Originally Posted by earcutter

OK, so I have tried the following with respect to the .25 diamond:

- Stropping a lot with it
- Stropping a little with it

- I have used CrOx after applying it
- I have honed after applying it

Every single method, has produced an all together way too keen an edge.

Here is the kicker - as uncomfortable as it is, not once has my alum block ever said I have done something wrong post shave.

I don't need to make this work as I can get great/smooth shaves off my rocks. Moreover, I can get smooth touch ups with my 1 micron and CrOx... But man, you can tell that .25 stuff would give you another level of sharp if one could... only get it to be smooth.

I am at a dead end. Any ideas?? - otherwise this will be archived into the "that was interesting" pile of stuff populating a growing drawer of stuff that was interesting at one time lol!

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I need to look into your drawer of interesting stuff....

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Originally Posted by rickboone

I need to look into your drawer of interesting stuff....

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Its populated mostly with other strops pasted with Dovo products, balsa wood this and that lol, barbers hones, a couple of coticules, lapping film - to name a few.

I love this sport :)!

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Its populated mostly with other strops pasted with Dovo products, balsa wood this and that lol, barbers hones, a couple of coticules, lapping film - to name a few.

I love this sport :)!

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All junk. Dump into a box. Mail here.

Forgive me for not reading and keeping up...what are you doing before the .25? How many strokes on the .25?
But, if you have a system that gives you edges you like, stick to it.

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Originally Posted by rickboone

All junk. Dump into a box. Mail here.

Forgive me for not reading and keeping up...what are you doing before the .25? How many strokes on the .25?
But, if you have a system that gives you edges you like, stick to it.

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Lol! I do have a system - just chasing the edge. Its a sickness :).

I cannot stand chromium oxide or diamond spray or anything for the longest time. I recently got some 50,000 grit Diamond spray and put it on felt. Really like the edge that it produced. I always kind of looked at a paste or spray as a crutch for not being able to get a good age of the stone. But it does add a little zyng to it that you may not otherwise have gotten

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Every single method, has produced an all together way too keen an edge.

Here is the kicker - as uncomfortable as it is, not once has my alum block ever said I have done something wrong post shave.

I don't need to make this work as I can get great/smooth shaves off my rocks. Moreover, I can get smooth touch ups with my 1 micron and CrOx... But man, you can tell that .25 stuff would give you another level of sharp if one could... only get it to be smooth.

I am at a dead end. Any ideas?? - otherwise this will be archived into the "that was interesting" pile of stuff populating a growing drawer of stuff that was interesting at one time lol!

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Weird re the alum. Still scratching my head on that one.

If you are using the .25 on an already optimal razor, is it the straw that breaks the camel's back. Would any abrasive medium do the same ?
Sorry no answers, just questions, :)

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Weird re the alum. Still scratching my head on that one.

If you are using the .25 on an already optimal razor, is it the straw that breaks the camel's back. Would any abrasive medium do the same ?
Sorry no answers, just questions, :)

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I was hoping you would pipe in onimaru!

The alum is what has me shaking my head too. I can't figure it!

Yes every blade I have used so far has been ready to go pre .25. Maybe my face just doesn't like it.

I'll say this though. I got excited after you linked the Japanese honemaster story. I tried honing his way using more and more laps on the stones as I worked my way up to my finishing stone and wow!! Maybe I got lucky. Anyway, he said to paste and then go back to your finest stone - it was still killer keen... But no sting on the alum!!

Good times lol! I'll keep plugging away. I'll shave for a while with a single blade and try it as maintenance when the blade begins to pull and see what happens.

Either way - still having fun lol!

I use .25 Diamond as a refreshing paste, not finishing.

You can calm a Diamond edge down with Chrome and Cerium Oxides, or linen and leather or the best, .50 or .125 CBN.

Cerium and CBN are the best finishing paste I have found and can be used daily for maintenance, with Diamond used once a week or as needed if the edge begins to flag.

Diamond to sharpen, CBN, Cerium and linen for smoothness.

Diamond is tops at cutting steel. I forget if it's in a sharpening book I have or if I saw this somewhere else, but electron microscopic images of steel edges honed with diamond are very interesting; think jagged sharp peaks and valleys with a side view like this: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ translating to edges like that as well. Diamond can be harsh on the face for that reason but will also lay whiskers to waste. I can not shave with a diamond honed edge taken only to a leather strop. Too harsh for me. Not pleasant even if wickedly sharp.

Microscopic pictures of Chrome Ox edges are very different than diamond and much smoother: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Diamond on steel is like broken glass. Chrome Ox on steel is like modeling clay. Weird comparisons, but they work.

ChrisL

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

Diamond on steel is like broken glass. Chrome Ox on steel is like modeling clay. Weird comparisons, but they work.

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Lying on a bed of nails vs lying on ball bearings. :)