I have a kanayama #3 with the suede backing and really like it, but I find myself wondering about other horses butts - Kanayama 8000, TM, the Miller over the big pond, What would be a nice compliment? Is there really anywhere else to go?
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I have a kanayama #3 with the suede backing and really like it, but I find myself wondering about other horses butts - Kanayama 8000, TM, the Miller over the big pond, What would be a nice compliment? Is there really anywhere else to go?
Thaw,
I have the Kanayama 70000 and 80000. Both are luscious strops, and somewhat similar. The 80000 is a bit thinner, and I seem to prefer that over the 70000. Neil Miller's cordovan strops are lovely; they are thinner than the Kanayamas and have a tendency to hug the razor and make love to it. The Bison cordovan I find much closer to Neil's cordovan in texture. My only problem with the Bison was the big and clunky handles, especially since I prefer the barber style no handle strops. I don't think Tony Miller makes a shell cordovan at this time, although I am not sure. If I were to make choice of these, I would opt for the Neil Miller.
where is the best place to get a Niel miller in the USA?
Thaw,
Miller strops are offered on Neil's site in England: Vintage Straight Razor Sales & Restorations, Hand Made Strops, UK Razor Honing and Vintage Hone Stones
I agree with Obie ...
Neil Miller ... You will not be sorry!
Never used a Kanayama strop but I can tell you that if and when I need a new strop to replace my Neil Miller shell Cordovan leather strop I will simply order another. Very pleased with the strop and Neil Is a gent to deal with.
Bob
Yes, Neil is an artist and a gentleman: the best of two worlds.
I have the #3 and the 90000 and I think the 90000 is the ultimate. I've never handled a Neil strop so I can't comment about them. The cloth component with the kanayama isn't the best and Neil beats that one flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaw
I found one for you: :D
Niel Miller
Age: 65+
215-489-0119
215-489-1559
4579 Summerhill Dr Doylestown, PA 18902-8802
But,,,,,,,,,
If your looking for a Neil Miller strop, then start looking in England, see Obie's link in post # 4.
His shipping is fast.
I'm sorry you don't like the linen with the Kanayama, I think it is the best I own, at least after I broke it in, it did take a while, but man what a strop.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
The maker of the strop had said his choice of materials for the cloth component was based on what he could source in Japan. The implication was it was a compromise from the start. Besides, I have a vintage heavy linen strop that pretty much beats everything so it's a high bar to compare anything too.
I am always looking for a better strop (I don't know why), What vintage heavy linen do you have?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
It came with my Red Imp Strop which I got NOS years ago.
Oh, OK, I think I know which one you are talking about. Does that strop have a number or other ID on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Any quality leather strop will work as good as any quality leather strop,buy one, use it for the rest of your life.
Buy a kanijomoto (or whatever) for $300.00, you will never know the diff between it and a $65 strop from another vendor.
Good strops are nothing more than animal hides,they all do the same thing.
yep those and many others were made by the same outfit. They usually say something to the effect of "beats em like a certified check" on it. The company is EM Manufacturing.
I only wanted to know if your Red Imp had a number?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
That may be true, but If i spend a billion $ to get the best shave I can, I would also expect to get a strop that feels wonderful when stropped.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
You will never see a differance between a quality $ 65 strop or a $300 strop.just will not happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by dta116
But do what you need to do.
There is most certainly a difference in the strop feel between a Kanayama and a lesser strop, I know because I have many.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
It is the material difference, It deos not have to be a Kanayama, but a Cordovan Shell strop cost more and feels better to me than a Latigo or Horsehide.
I am not talking about what does the job. You are correct that you can get just as good a shave from most quality strops, but it's the pleasure of getting there is what I am talking about.
Yes it's a 700.Quote:
Originally Posted by dta116
+1 to this. A Yugo will get you from A to B (most times) but using a Mercedes 500SL is infinitely so much nicer of an experience. An extreme example, but there is a point in there somewhere... Of course there is a point of diminishing returns after a while. But I would agree that there is a definite difference between most $65 strops and most $2-300 strops in the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by dta116
As another comparison, I choose to keep my shave equipment in a nice custom made shelf instead of stacked on my bathroom counter. Both are capable of storing my shave accoutrements. But the shelf is so much nicer to look at!
Your final leather should not be abrasive.
So the only difference in the strops can be length, width, texture, draw, Thickness and finish.
No performance gains will ever be got between leathers. Your leather would have to be abrasive for that to happen.
The linen counterpart on the other hand can affect the razor. Even more so with compounds. So get the best quality linen, and a good quality leather.
Anything claiming to be a better stropping material for your final leather is hyperbole and the gains will be ephemeral. You are by large grading the audible and tactile feedback and converting that into illusional gains.
I don't believe anyone is claiming gains using different leathers. I claim I would rather strop on a Kanayama than a cowhide or a heavier draw leather. This is a preference. I also would rather drive a Jag than a Chevy, they will both get me there.
Everything is abrasive to some degree. What purpose would the strop be in the scheme of things. That is no illusion. Most people would rather shave with a stropped razor than not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
Once I experienced the Kanayama #3 I stopped there. Yes, I thought of procuring a higher end strop from this excellent craftsman but no need really because the #3 simply does it for me.
Excuse me, but I thought I should respond with a huge rebuke - RUBBISH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
I thought that you may have read what many others here have posted - obviously not.
Forgive my impertinence.Quote:
Excuse me, but I thought I should respond with a huge rebuke - RUBBISH!
I thought that you may have read what many others here have posted - obviously not.
If my post is in some way incorrect then I would expect it to be corrected in a logical and debated manner. To be censured without debate is not a solution.
If I my statement is incorrect then correct it. We are all here to be educated.
Gentlemen,
I feel this conversation is heading toward an argument — and an argument kills a conversation. Please remember to maintain the forum's state of civility in your point and counter point discussion. Thanks.
So much of shaving is subjective and one has to acknowledge that. Absolutes can be folly and that includes my beliefs. I do however support that there are certain beliefs thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
will ring true in a majority of straight razor shavers with several years of experience.
thebigspendur says any quality strop will basically do the same thing. I tend to agree with that, speaking of the leather component here. OTOH, having a dozen or so vintage, high quality pro barber strops, like any normal person, plus strops from SRD, Tony Miller, Neil Miller (no relation) , HandAmerican and a Kanayama 90,000 I sold, an 80,000 I kept, I think I can offer some comparison, though subjective it may be. There are differences in the aforementioned leathers, even if the end result is basically the same.
I say basically the same, because I think there may be some difference between the end result with one leather or another. Having had conversations on the telephone with Keith DeGrau (HandAmerican) I learned a bit about how Keith treats the leather that ends up in a HandAmerican strop. Since I had some horsehide, and was making my own strop, just for the heck of it, Keith gave me some tips. I would never have thought of these things in a zillion years, and don't ask because I'm sworn to secrecy. Anyway, AFAIC there are differences and if an individual has an assortment of the current high end strops mentioned above, they would have to see that if they cannot find a difference in outcome, there is certainly a difference in the various horsehide strops offered by the makers. Maybe it is my imagination, but I think there is a difference, subtle though it may be, in the end result as well. YMMV. :shrug:
I respectively disagree with you theory regarding progressive stropping. I have been doing so for many many years now, and I can categorically say that progressive stropping is a huge benefit towards a more refined edge. When I finish an edge on the hones and I'm ready for the strop I go thru at least 4 different strops Starting mostly with the Lipshaw Microtome diamond patterned panel followed with Russian napped and finishing with either a Latigo or shell finisher. I certainly know the difference between leathers. And I think I'm a good witness to the fact that Ive been doing this for a very long time now, and my set up is a pretty good neutral testing ground since every leather panel is on a Lipshaw Microtome so I have consistency. Most razors of mine can be refreshed with the progressive cycling of leathers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
Oh and by the way all the panels of my 3 Lipshaw Microtones are Neil Miller's Like I always say "If Your gonna have it, have it right"
Attachment 177919
Attachment 177920
And Neil Miller's leather is right.
Darl (Tarkus)
Hmmmmm....absolute pronouncement made about leather in regards to razor strops from a consumer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Another opinion given by a manufacturer and expert in said product.
Yup, next time I contract out some work for a IT project, I'll make sure to hire the local baker to set up the data center and get the network engineer to make me some muffins.
Geez - that's a hard call, think I'll stick with, "RUBBISH" - thanks Neil!
Topic aside for a moment I do bloody admire the way Englishmen use the word "rubbish".
: )
Neil has obviously gone from being merely "miffed" to downright "cross", hence the, "rubbish" comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by lz6
Thank you for those responses, I think you have cleared a few misunderstandings I have about strops, And probably created some new ones as well!
My intention with the rather passive aggressive post was to see if there actually was something unique about different strops, And if so how does it measure. I've read a lot of strop threads and they all seem to end in the same way with no real answer just opinions.
And I think it is fair to say the opinion on strops is divided in some respects, In others it is not.
Neil I owe you a direct apology. It was not my intention to inflame you either directly or indirectly. I merely wanted to post an opinion that I knew would cause people to respond in as factual a manner as possible. It was wrong of me to do so. In doing so your strops have come out as been not only of the highest quality materials, I also see that you go beyond been a craftsman and deep into the realm of been an artist. You were offended enough to attack me directly. And I think that speaks volumes about just how much of your soul goes into your work. Thank you for been honest and caring. And I also thank every one that defended Neil and his strops. You've just made me want one more than ever.
Thaw, developing and improving your stropping technique will do more for your edges, than buying a more expensive strop.
The Nanayams no. 3 is a nice strop and capable of producing a fine edge, but until your stropping skills improve, neither will your edges.
Many folks have their favorite strops and believe that strop can produce the best edges for them. But I doubt any one could tell one strop from another in a blind shave test, by an experienced stropper.
As said, so much of this hobby is subjective and many have strong opinions on what works best… for them.
The best strop, is the one you know how to use.
And i thought it was the one I haven't bought yet. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Story of my life Bro...Quote:
Originally Posted by thaw
The notion that there are some magical differences between strops is pretty much held by a small number of folks. I think most realize all strops do the same thing. I say that as a guy who used to collect strops and at one time I had a strop from just about every critten that walked, crawled, swam or ran. They all did the same thing. Some looked nicer and they all felt different but that was about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
