Strop abrasives I have tried

I am a beginner so my opinions have very little experience behind them. I'm not posting this as advice. I'm posting it to ask questions based on how I feel the strops perform based on my limited experience. I also base my opinions on how the hanging hair test does. I know this is not as good as a shave test but I use it when I have already shaved. The problem I have with only using the shave test is I want my shaves to get better as fast as possible. If I can only test my razors by shaving that means one (maybe two) tests per day. This is just too slow. So, I use the HHT. While not a fool-proof test at least it’s something. I may just be too impatient.


To determine performance of sharpening tools when sharpening things I believe you need to dull the edge first. I get my razor to NOT cut a hanging hair by doing about 4-5 passes on a 16k shapton glass stone. My honing (stones) skill isn’t that great either so I take that into consideration. Then I strop with the poly-webbing then leather testing the edge using the HHT after each step.

I have a poly-webbing strop that I sprayed with .5 micron CBN spray when I got it. I liked how it worked. Then I got some .5 micron chromium oxide from SRD and put it on the webbing strop on top of the spray. The amount of abrasion seemed to go down at least 50%. I had to do at least twice the number of strokes to get the same sharpness (approx.) as the CBN. Then I applied .25 micron diamond spray on the other side and it is more aggressive than the ch ox. On the poly-webbing strop I can’t tell any difference in the .25 or .5 micron sprays but the chromium oxide .5 micron crayon is much less aggressive. Don’tget me wrong. It works well, just not as fast as the sprays I’ve tried. The razor needs many more passes to get the edge as sharp. I’ve seen this kind ofdifference in abrasives sharpening knives when I use CBN sprays compared to cheaper diamond sprays or pastes. They have a less concentration of diamond in the spray. I believe that’s the issue there. Different type abrasives make a huge difference also. CBN is supposed to cut faster than diamond. That sort of thing.

It seems at the moment that the crayon .5 micron chromium oxide is less abrasive as the CBN or diamond spray I’ve used on poly-webbing. I still take into consideration my inexperience in stropping when I form an opinion.

The reason I’m going through all this stuff is when learning to sharpen knives I bought stones of different types, different strops of different leather types (and balsa) as well as different type abrasives. This went on for about 5 years. While interesting and enjoyable, I don’t want to go through that with razors. I bought the richman’s strop on whippeddog.com and I will probably get one of the strops on SRD but I hope THAT’S IT. I’d appreciate as much info as I can get so I don’t need to try as many different things as I did with knives. I have a linen replacement strop from SRD coming in the mail today to compare with the poly-webbing. I have 2-3 sprays I can try as well as the crayon. I will probably put the cr ox on one side of the linen. Then I’ll apply .1 micron CBN on the other and compare. If the .1 micron isn’t abrasive enough I’ll try .25 or .5 micron spray. Not a lot of noticable difference there though. Not without fancy cutting and testing equipment. All I care about is how the razor does on my face. And the HHT when I don’t have any whiskers between shaves.

I may be in too much of a hurry. I may be wasting my time. Right now I’m new to straightrazors. It wasn’t until I had 3+ years of knife sharpening (several hours per day many times) under my belt that I was able to really tell much difference in the results of the stones and strops and strop compounds. But (I think this is important), I would not have learned knife sharpening nearly as fast if I only sharpened knives when they got dull under normal use. I’d sharpen one till it would whittle a hair then try to cut my sharpening stone in half to dull the edge then sharpen it again. I believe learning to strop a razor requires more than 50-100 passes between each shave just to keep it shave ready. I don’t work anymore and have the time to spend just stropping. I’m going to learn this crap! You guys talk about BBS shaves. I want to do more than read about them. :)

Razors are not knives. Try to develop your honing skills to the point where you would be able to shave comfortably from your finish stone and only need a few stropping laps on linen/CrOx to just refresh the edge after several shaves.

Concentrate on your honing skills.

I think using pastes as a new honer is good. BUT the 7 laps on whatever isnt going to make a huge difference in the overall edge. Develop a consistent stroke and try different edges, jnat, coticule, synths etc to see what you like. Otherwise IMO if you have no contrast, you will not know.

two things

Experimenting is the way to go, right, wrong, or in between, it teaches you something

The shave test, does NOT mean you have to shave the whole face :) just one small portion can tell you tons after you learn the feel..
Experiment with that too, because all you are testing with any other test is "Sharpness" and the more important aspect with honing SR's is "Smoothness"

ie: Getting a SR sharp is pretty easy, but getting the balance of Sharp, Smooth, and Longevity, takes a bit more talent :p

Paste/sprays will produce differing results depending on the substrate.

For example Chrome Oxide on wood/balsa will polish differently than on leather or linen. Better? You judge.

CBN is not more aggressive than Diamond, in my experience. Even with the same particle size, they will produce dramatically different result.

Generally Diamond is use for adding keenness, CBN more for polishing/smoothness and comfort, same with Chrome Oxide.

If you read old paste threads you will see a variety of comments as to results. The reason is because of the many variables that contribute to the result, the largest of which is the user and the finish of the edge in question, prior to the pasting.

I have achieved the best result with CBN when misted wet and on a soft substrate, like foam, cloth and paper. Why wet? I do not know.

Paste and sprays are not magic, the skill of the stropper will reflect the results. Pastes cannot compensate for lack of stropping skills, quite the opposite a pasted strop is an abrasive strop. The slightest mistake is magnified.

Paste/sprays are best for comfort and maintenance.

To reduce your learning curve, find a mentor and coach. Practicing for hours does not always improve your skill.

Millions of golfers spend hours hitting ball at the driving range, are they practicing? Practicing what?

Every professional golfers hits balls with a coach looking over their shoulder, making slight corrections to their technique.

Perfect practice, makes perfect.

I'm not going to worry about different abrasives for now. I had ordered a linen strop from SRD as well as the cromium oxide .5 crayon. I used the linen with the ch ox then stropped with leather. Then I shaved and I had a very good shave. I also had used the Castle Forbes pre-shave I got a couple days ago and a scuttle I heated water in the microwave for 2.5 minutes. You can say this shave was much different from any other as far as preperation and execution. Since it went so well I'm just going to use the linen strop with the ch ox and 4 passes then 50 passes on the leather to maintain the edge between shaves. Over time doing that consistently I'll see if the edge degrades enough to effect the shave. From what I've read 4 passes on the linen and also 50 on leather the edge should almost never be NOT shave ready. If that holds true I'll at some point stop using the linen between every shave. Over more time I'll see how the edge shaves just using the leather strop between shaves. This is what I'm planning for the razor I will be shaving with. I only have two razors and I haven't been able to distinguish any difference between the two. I don't think I have enough experience to recognize any difference between them if there is any. They are both 5/8", hollow grind.

The other razor I'll still practice with without concerning myself with the abrasives. I have given this abrasive testing issue some thought. Lots of different folks like one thing and others like the other thing. These are experienced people. I'm talking about you guys. I don't think I can trust my stropping skill enough to be able to rate the performance of different strops or abrasives. May be wrong but I think I'm slowing down and coming to my senses. If I can get a really good shave like I did earlier today who cares about figuring out which abrasive works better than what I just used. Actually, I think the pre-shave lotion made more of a difference than anything. I put it on and let it soak in for a minute or two while the scuttle was in the microwave.

Anyway, you guys won't hear me go on about webbing vs linen or paste vs spray. Not now anyway. After getting consistent shaves I'll trust that my stropping is ok for now and will improve in time. The shave today resulted in no missed patches of stubble on my neck which has been the norm. When finished my skin was softer also. I'm pretty sure I could call this shave the best one yet. So no more switching around with testing this and trying that. It was starting to make my head hurt anyway. :)

Thanks guys.

I would also say, the more you shave the more you will be able to feel the differences. :<0)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack0458

To determine performance of sharpening tools when sharpening things I believe you need to dull the edge first. I get my razor to NOT cut a hanging hair by doing about 4-5 passes on a 16k shapton glass stone. My honing (stones) skill isn’t that great either so I take that into consideration. Then I strop with the poly-webbing then leather testing the edge using the HHT after each step.

I have a poly-webbing strop that I sprayed with .5 micron CBN spray when I got it. I liked how it worked. Then I got some .5 micron chromium oxide from SRD and put it on the webbing strop on top of the spray. The amount of abrasion seemed to go down at least 50%.

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OK a couple copper plated two cents in the pot.

Never dull the edge... except in a contest. It sets you back way too far.

16K shapton is a darn fine hone but if the edge was dulled there is a need to reset the bevel
at about 1K and work down to 16K all over again. At 16K the blade should be strop ready
and after stropping ready to shave.

CBN is very aggressive and might be a bit more aggressive than CrOx but at 0.5 micron
on fabric or leather aggressive is just the wrong mindset. 0.92 micron (#16000) Shapton
might only need a short visit to any submicron loaded strop to remove the micro burr
that you might have. A well worn grey canvas strop will act a lot like any 0.5micron loaded
strop. CrOx is astoundingly abrasive.... perhaps more so than diamond.

A darkened canvas strop will be loaded with oxidized steel bits which is a good thing in my mind.
Speeding up this oxidized steel oxide loading can happen with any submicron spray or paste when
used lightly and in moderation.

Differences between CBN, CrOx, Diamond, CeOx at 0.5 micron or finer will be very difficult to
detect. I have tried. The quality of edge from the 16K hone will have more impact from test to test
than a pasted strop.

One value of CeOx "the good stuff" is adjusting the draw of a leather strop. After applying too much
strop paste I had a sticky and gummy leather strop. A light dusting of CeOx (a glass polish) relieved
the gummy feeling and let me strop. Rubbing with brown paper over and over got me back to normal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

OK a couple copper plated two cents in the pot.

Never dull the edge... except in a contest. It sets you back way too far.

16K shapton is a darn fine hone but if the edge was dulled there is a need to reset the bevel
at about 1K and work down to 16K all over again. At 16K the blade should be strop ready
and after stropping ready to shave.

CBN is very aggressive and might be a bit more aggressive than CrOx but at 0.5 micron
on fabric or leather aggressive is just the wrong mindset. 0.92 micron (#16000) Shapton
might only need a short visit to any submicron loaded strop to remove the micro burr
that you might have. A well worn grey canvas strop will act a lot like any 0.5micron loaded
strop. CrOx is astoundingly abrasive.... perhaps more so than diamond.

A darkened canvas strop will be loaded with oxidized steel bits which is a good thing in my mind.
Speeding up this oxidized steel oxide loading can happen with any submicron spray or paste when
used lightly and in moderation.

Differences between CBN, CrOx, Diamond, CeOx at 0.5 micron or finer will be very difficult to
detect. I have tried. The quality of edge from the 16K hone will have more impact from test to test
than a pasted strop.

One value of CeOx "the good stuff" is adjusting the draw of a leather strop. After applying too much
strop paste I had a sticky and gummy leather strop. A light dusting of CeOx (a glass polish) relieved
the gummy feeling and let me strop. Rubbing with brown paper over and over got me back to normal.

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I didn't dull the edge like I would a knife. What I did was perform a few passes on the 16k stone. Instead of "dull" a better term may be I "reduced sharpness". Possibly to the same sharpness it would have after a 16k during a standard honing process. That's what I was thinking anyway.

Does more "draw" mean the razor doesn't slide as easy? I've read where one leather has more draw than another. If I don't rub my leather strop with my hand before stropping the razor seems to "drag" on the leather. After I rub the leather to the point it is almost "hot" the razor seems to "glide" along the leather. Is the "drag" feeling more "draw"? What does less draw or more draw mean?

Just an alternative & maybe OT but a 20k Gokumyo makes pastes redundant if you want a simple path.