Stropping problem - getting the razor to "sit down" evenly.

So I've been having some problems with stropping. The razor doesn't want to stay seated flat when moving across the strop (3" English leather IV). It seems to be because of 2 problems - 1) the strop seems to be rather stiff (never oiled, just rub my hands over it each time before stropping), so when pulled taught (well, semi taught) it doesn't create a fully flat surface and so the blade doesn't touch in certain spots. 2) There are "ripples/creases" in the strop - maybe 6-10 lines that show different wear and I can feel that they're slightly razed when I rub my hand on the strop.

Was considering two possible solutions - 1) going with a paddle strop, 2) trying something like a roo skin strop that I hear if "softer" than the leather and so might give a more even surface.

Have you tried using it on a bench flat? Or broken it in with some lather and a bottle to help break it's back, this may help the creases, I have also then rubbed Nivea vitamin E cream into it and rubbing again with the bottle when dried again helped a lot with my English bridle.

My roo travel strop I made is very flexible, but mainly because it is only 0.8mm ( 1/32" ) thick does work nice also but.

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Originally Posted by Substance

Have you tried using it on a bench flat? Or broken it in with some lather and a bottle to help break it's back, this may help the creases, I have also then rubbed Nivea vitamin E cream into it and rubbing again with the bottle when dried again helped a lot with my English bridle.

My roo travel strop I made is very flexible, but mainly because it is only 0.8mm ( 1/32" ) thick does work nice also but.

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Are you talking about applying lather to the back side of the strop?

Sir, I think you do it to the front or smooth side. At least that's how I do mine

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Originally Posted by nodakjohns

Sir, I think you do it to the front or smooth side. At least that's how I do mine

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Are you all talking about using actual shaving lather then running a bottle over it? I'm still unclear what @substance was actually describing doing.

You shouldn't need or necessarily do anything other than rubbing the strop with the palm of your hand. The oils from your hand will work the strop in nicely, as will time.

Stopping is a fundamental to this hobby, and learning to do it properly is key. As has been suggested, this will also help work the strop in, take a butter knife and keep the spine of the knife always on the strop, flipping the knife at the end of each stroke / lap without lifting the spine from the strop.

Practice this frequently, speed kills, it's not a race, and remember to palm rub the strop until the surface of the strop get warm...I do this a couple of times a week at least, and when stropping your razor, focus on the blade, go slow, don't use a lot of pressure, and keep the spine on the strop...do this, and with time, you'll be proficient in one of the main fundamentals.

This is a time based experience task, there is no, what's the saying, "put nine women in a room and get a baby in a month", to this...takes time, patience and practice....enjoy it!


edited to add: I have a heavy Illinois 827 strop and the SRD 3" Roo strop, many feel the Roo strop is to thin, and have complaints about it. Many feel the 827 peels or sheds to much, or doesn't give enough feedback. These are common complaints that it's always the tool, never the user...your leather belt would suffice as a strop if needed. Some put lather on the strop, I don't and never have. The strop will work itself in, wrinkles, warps and such will go away with use, and as suggested, if any waves or wrinkles bother you, usually a bottle will go a long way to start removing them...

@phrank - I've had this strop for months now, and rub my hand across it before use daily. When I pull it taught, the main issue is that it doesn't create a flat surface. There's always areas that are slightly lower/higher than others, so parts of the blade don't touch as I'm drawing it across.

Major,

If you mean a 3" English Bridle IV instead of 3" English Leather IV, that is a good strop. As Phrank advises, with daily hand rubdowns and stropping, your strop will come around. Give it time. Unless the strop is defective, then that is another issue. Please get in touch with the vendor and explain your problem.

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Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic

@phrank - I've had this strop for months now, and rub my hand across it before use daily. When I pull it taught, the main issue is that it doesn't create a flat surface. There's always areas that are slightly lower/higher than others, so parts of the blade don't touch as I'm drawing it across.

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Interesting...I never actually pull my strop, "tight", I always leave enough slack that there is some cup to it, IIRC, this is the proper manner, if there is such a thing LOL, I find with the slight cup to it, it provides a better contact between the blade and the strop. Most of the vids I've seen with barbers stropping, they never have the strop pulled tightly, you'll always see a good amount of slack / cupping...

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Originally Posted by Obie

Major,

If you mean a 3" English Bridle IV instead of 3" English Leather IV, that is a good strop. As Phrank advises, with daily hand rubdowns and stropping, your strop will come around. Give it time. Unless the strop is defective, then that is another issue. Please get in touch with the vendor and explain your problem.

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You're right - English Bridle. I read reviews before buying and sounded like a good strop, but after 2 months or so of near daily use (including hand rubbing) it just doesn't seem to have broken in. When I draw the blade, because of the way the strop flexes, it's very difficult to keep contact across the entire blade for the entire pass. Various parts of the blade are constantly losing contact.

I've got a dozen strops, like any normal person, :p and I've never had one with "ripples/creases". I would think that would be a problem and I would take a shot at the bottle roll over with some pressure to try and flatten them if nothing else. The lather on the strop/bottle method is an old barber thing. I've never tried it either but here is a thread with pros and cons if you want to investigate it further. Posts by 'honedright' and Neil Miller are particularly instructive though on opposite sides of the method.

When I strop I have enough pressure on the spine to keep the razor on the surface and do the flip in a way that the edge just skims the surface with no pressure. I also do an X of sorts since I use 2 1/2" strops. Also, you say "semi taut". Try taut as you can get and see if that doesn't help. Not sure that it will. Worst case scenario, get a new strop.

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Interesting...I never actually pull my strop, "tight", I always leave enough slack that there is some cup to it, IIRC, this is the proper manner, if there is such a thing LOL, I find with the slight cup to it, it provides a better contact between the blade and the strop. Most of the vids I've seen with barbers stropping, they never have the strop pulled tightly, you'll always see a good amount of slack / cupping...

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Hmmm... that's an interesting point. Maybe I'm pulling too tight which is the cause of the problem. I'll leave a bit more slack tonight. I was concerned about slack because I didn't want to "roll" the edge.

Major,

English Bridle is a stiff strop and sometimes takes a while to break in. So yes, continue the daily hand rubbing. I do so no matter what type of a strop, shell cordovan to English Bridle. All these years, I have always kept my daily strops pristine by avoiding conditioners; the oils from your hands are plenty. I also give the strop additional slack, any type of strop, since that seems to add a magnetic feel to the leather. Finally, I strop the old barber way by angling the toe slightly forward going up — which in essence automatically gives you the X pattern — and returning with the heel forward. This is a little hard to do at first, but it does wonders with your blade. You'll get there little by little.

Quick question: Are you doing straight strokes of X strokes? My 3" english bridle is high at the center and low on the sides. Doing X strokes is all I need to get contact on the lenght of the blade over the course of each stroke.

Cheers.

Wasn't doing x-strokes. I started keeping the blade at and angle vs positioning directly across the strop, but maybe something like that would help. I always thought the x-pattern was for narrower strops.

A lot of guys, me included, feel that the X stroke is beneficial whether it is a 3" strop or narrower. Doesn't take long to get the hang of it and you'll be able to judge for yourself whether it helps the edge. I think it does.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

A lot of guys, me included, feel that the X stroke is beneficial whether it is a 3" strop or narrower. Doesn't take long to get the hang of it and you'll be able to judge for yourself whether it helps the edge. I think it does.

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Good point - I can see the logic behind it. I'll give it a shot.

Well, my first job was making cinnamon rolls at a cinnabon in the mall - I'm still trying to work off the weight I put on while working there - but here's the point: I like to use a rolling pin, like I used to roll out dough. This allows me to put a little more pressure on the leather. Lay the strop on a flat surface, like a marble counter top or something similar - flat and hard. lay the strop so that the smooth side is up, then roll with even, firm pressure from one end to the other. Test frequently to see if any of the valleys and peaks are being evened out. I think you'll find this will help to make a more uniform surface for your strop. I don't use lather or any other oils. Like has already been said, the natural oils that transfer from palming the surface should suffice. It's argued that putting oils on the surface of the strop attracts dust and other particles which negatively effect the finish of strop. Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by Pi3

Quick question: Are you doing straight strokes of X strokes? My 3" english bridle is high at the center and low on the sides. Doing X strokes is all I need to get contact on the lenght of the blade over the course of each stroke.

Cheers.

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I was thinking the same :) x's or wiper strokes should help. Wiper - windscreen wiper on a car.

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Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic

Good point - I can see the logic behind it. I'll give it a shot.

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Yes - X-stroke for sure, essential, no matter how wide the strop, X-stroke ensure an even surface contact with the blade...my Illinois 827 is a 2.5" and the SRD Roo is a 3" strop, use the X stroke regardless....

Major, The 3" strop is tougher to break in than the old standard of 2 1/2" but some grunt work will help to soften the leather.
I have been looking around the house to find a good household "tool" to recomend for use in breaking the fibers in your leather strop. The best I can come up with at my house is a metal folding chair, The framework is constructed from 7/8" round metal tubing. I think the top of the backrest would work to soften up the excessive stiffness that is problematic for you.
A chinup bar that goes across a doorway, or maybe a round table leg might work well too, even the top rail of a chainlink fence might be considered.
Just very tightly pull the leather over the rounded surface causing it to stretch.
I would start with the rougher side against the round surface for a few hundred passes before turning it over.
When putting the top grain down I would first hang a piece of fabric over the tool of choice so that it will slide with the leather so the stropping surface will not be abraided by the tools surface imperfections.
Just for fun I just measured the thickness of 5 leather strops. Four of them are from probably the 50s or 60s and one is new.
The older ones measured .0100", .0110", .0135"-.0140" and a very thick and stiff Russian leather at .0180. The new English leather is .0115".
The two I like best are the old at .0110" and the new one at .0115" which equates roughly to 7 oz. leather.
I too, am tempted to try Kangeroo leather for stropping.
It is very supple but it would be easy enough to pull it more taught when stropping to make up the difference.
Personally I would never treat my finishing strop with lather, neatsfoot oil, or anything else. Rubbing with the hand works well enough for me.
Good luck with your strop and good luck to you in your military service to our country.

Wow!! 13 posts appeared while I was typing!
As a follow up on the advise of others I will have to add that varying the taughtness of the strop will make a huge difference in the effect that stropping has on the bevel of your razor.
For two full years I did what you describe doing to an excess to prevent rolling of the edge. Typically I had no more than maybe 1/4" of droop in the strop and found that I needed way way more passes on the strop than many people needed.
Finally I loosened up until I have 1/2" - 5/8" droop and noticed a really big improvement in the effectiveness of my stropping.
What works for you and what works for me might be different.
The suppleness or stiffness of the strop as well as how much pressure is allowed on the razor all has an effect on the overall outcome of the stropping session.
You are on the right track though about your razor needing to have proper contact with the strop fairly uniformly along its path.
Working the leather back and forth along a rounded surface should allow your strop to break in much faster and allow it to work better for you,

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Originally Posted by Galaxy51

Major, The 3" strop is tougher to break in than the old standard of 2 1/2" but some grunt work will help to soften the leather.
I have been looking around the house to find a good household "tool" to recomend for use in breaking the fibers in your leather strop. The best I can come up with at my house is a metal folding chair, The framework is constructed from 7/8" round metal tubing. I think the top of the backrest would work to soften up the excessive stiffness that is problematic for you.
A chinup bar that goes across a doorway, or maybe a round table leg might work well too, even the top rail of a chainlink fence might be considered.
Just very tightly pull the leather over the rounded surface causing it to stretch.
I would start with the rougher side against the round surface for a few hundred passes before turning it over.
When putting the top grain down I would first hang a piece of fabric over the tool of choice so that it will slide with the leather so the stropping surface will not be abraided by the tools surface imperfections.
Just for fun I just measured the thickness of 5 leather strops. Four of them are from probably the 50s or 60s and one is new.
The older ones measured .0100", .0110", .0135"-.0140" and a very thick and stiff Russian leather at .0180. The new English leather is .0115".
The two I like best are the old at .0110" and the new one at .0115" which equates roughly to 7 oz. leather.
I too, am tempted to try Kangeroo leather for stropping.
It is very supple but it would be easy enough to pull it more taught when stropping to make up the difference.
Personally I would never treat my finishing strop with lather, neatsfoot oil, or anything else. Rubbing with the hand works well enough for me.
Good luck with your strop and good luck to you in your military service to our country.

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That is a great idea! Hadn't even thought of this.... but that sounds like exactly what I'm trying to do. I need to lessen/remove the rigidity.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy51

A chinup bar that goes across a doorway, or maybe a round table leg might work well too, even the top rail of a chainlink fence might be considered.
Just very tightly pull the leather over the rounded surface causing it to stretch.
I would start with the rougher side against the round surface for a few hundred passes before turning it over.
When putting the top grain down I would first hang a piece of fabric over the tool of choice so that it will slide with the leather so the stropping surface will not be abraided by the tools surface imperfections.

I would never treat my finishing strop with lather, neatsfoot oil, or anything else..

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I was thinking along these line too. If it were me I would start with a pretty open angle across the bar, rough side against the bar, and see if I could avoid the smooth side against the bar altogether. +1 on the no lather or neatsfoot. I use a little hard (pure)carnauba wax on my strop if it starts getting really dry, but otherwise nothing. I clean my strop daily with a damp towel quickly followed by vigorous rub with a dry towel.

I think you should try the X stroke as well. I have actually come around to thinner strops, because it forces you to use an X and they are usually cheaper. I had the same concerns as you do about one of my strops and you can clearly see parts of the blade not making good contact, but through the course of my X stroke all the blade touches at some point. It is harder/slower at first, but totally worth it in the end!!! How taut your strop should be is something you gotta play with and your pressure affects this as well IMO. The heavier your hand the tighter your strop should be, but we all strive to have that ever sought after feather touch from hones to strops to chins to women. Take your time, try the x, test the tension, then hit the lather and bottle if all else fails. If you lather your strop use a soap like MWF or Williams which is tallow based. Apply to the smooth side and let sit for a bit then wipe off the excess; this is also an excellent way to clean your current strop or a vintage you pick up second hand. Good luck and keep us posted. Also is it just an issue of your strop cupping laterally?

sorry mate missed responding to this,
correct I use normal shave lather applied with your brush to the smooth stropping side only & then rub it in with a smooth bottle for a couple of minutes, then whip down any remaining lather if any.

also +1 on definately still using an X stroke, no matter what size strop you have to help ensure the full blade edge with is being stropped.

also my strop is a BigDaddy 3" English Bridle I also did this for the replacement leather when I passed my original onto my Son-in-law as a beginner strop recently

If your going to do the shaving soap,Bottle program (it really works)Use a tallow based soap.

From the Star Shaving web site & included in their packaging

The Leather Strop is new, never used, tested and made by us, made in the U.S.A.; has a great draw and ready for razor stropping!
For Best Results use water and soap on the leather, such as your shave brush with shave soap. Also use the palm of your hand to rub the leather strop occasionally to help keep the leather pliable.
When the leather is not pliable use Neatsfoot oil and when the leather is dirty use Saddle soap.
Use a lint roller to keep the Linen strop clean.

I received an old strop with an eBay razor and it was severely cupped and used the lather and bottle on it to make it usable again. It works.

I'm sorry, but who the h-ll measures their "droop" :hmmm:

Get a paddle strop, PLEASE!

Is that brewers droop from drinking beer LOL

My stropping improved when I got enough reps that I truly started to RELAX!!! I noticed that the strop was not as tight and the blade sat down more evenly due to the extra curve and relaxed pressure. (strop and blade)

Off subject to keeping the whole blade on the strop but I started thinking of icing a cake...enough pressure to put the icing on....but not enough to mash the cake. For some reason that seems to be the analogy that works for me.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy51

Major, The 3" strop is tougher to break in than the old standard of 2 1/2" but some grunt work will help to soften the leather.
I have been looking around the house to find a good household "tool" to recomend for use in breaking the fibers in your leather strop. The best I can come up with at my house is a metal folding chair, The framework is constructed from 7/8" round metal tubing. I think the top of the backrest would work to soften up the excessive stiffness that is problematic for you.
A chinup bar that goes across a doorway, or maybe a round table leg might work well too, even the top rail of a chainlink fence might be considered.
Just very tightly pull the leather over the rounded surface causing it to stretch.
I would start with the rougher side against the round surface for a few hundred passes before turning it over.
When putting the top grain down I would first hang a piece of fabric over the tool of choice so that it will slide with the leather so the stropping surface will not be abraided by the tools surface imperfections.
Just for fun I just measured the thickness of 5 leather strops. Four of them are from probably the 50s or 60s and one is new.
The older ones measured .0100", .0110", .0135"-.0140" and a very thick and stiff Russian leather at .0180. The new English leather is .0115".
The two I like best are the old at .0110" and the new one at .0115" which equates roughly to 7 oz. leather.
I too, am tempted to try Kangeroo leather for stropping.
It is very supple but it would be easy enough to pull it more taught when stropping to make up the difference.
Personally I would never treat my finishing strop with lather, neatsfoot oil, or anything else. Rubbing with the hand works well enough for me.
Good luck with your strop and good luck to you in your military service to our country.

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I brought a strop from eBay and the seller folded it leaving a crease in the middle. It was quite thick leather and very stiff. I used the edge of the kitchen bench which is a right angle. Had 1 part running across the counter and 1 directly down the side at 90 degrees running it back and forth. I did this smooth side up. This strop is now very supple and all hint of creasing is gone.