Trying to buy another strop

I need your advice guys, if possible. Now I have just one good strop, it is a long napped leather, but it is very thin and delicate, good for travels and similar things because doesn't bend easily and gives very good edges. I tried to buy a cheap "rindleder", but with very bad results. So I'm trying to decide to the Kanayama #3, or a Neil Miller cordovan, or this one: Hängeriemen | DICTUM GmbH - Mehr als Werkzeug

Very different strops with different results and edges, what's the best choice in your opinion?
Thanks

The first two are supreme for sure..can't go wrong with them. I am pretty new when it comes to srops, but if i had the $ to buy one i would buy the Kanayama! Neil Miller strops are also 1.st class that's what everybody who is anybody sais :) Don't know about the Hangeriemen?
I say go for the first two if you got the chance. That's what i would buy if money was not an option.
Kind regards, Stick

Easy decision,,,,,, Neil Miller

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Easy decision,,,,,, Neil Miller

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Was for me too. Go for a 3 inch wide strop while you are at it. The third one you linked to is only about 1 1/4 inches wide. For me that would be like trying to strop on a violin string after using a 3 inch strop.

Bob

As I have both the Kanayama and the Neil Miller, allow me to muddy the waters a bit ;)

The third option is out. The Kanayama and the Neil Miller are IMO the two finest strop makers anytime, anywhere. If you want the best, your choice is between these two.

In terms of collectability: The Kanayama. The Kanayama shell must be handled to be fully appreciated. But the sole maker is ~90 years old these days, and has no one to fill his shoes when he departs this plane. When he's gone, so are his strops, and their value will increase accordingly. At about 150 USD for the #3 with the added woven strop, it is the current bargain of the stropping world.

In terms of performance: The Neil Miller. The craftsmanship, hardware, and superiority of the construction materials of Neil's strops are unrivaled. He uses Horween Genuine Cordovan Shell, and his linen material is the best available today, period. As a performing strop, Neil's are simply the very best. He is also ornery and quite dedicated to a long life of belching forth snarky retorts on shaving forums, and therefore, likely to be with us for quite some time to come.

So, in a nut shell: for collectability purposes, get the Kanayama. For flat-out performance, get the Neil Miller.

My view is all quality strops do the same thing. One isn't going to improve your razor more than the other. So it's a matter of why you want to buy the strop. I would say buy whichever you like the best. I have no experience with Neil's but I have the other in #3 and #90000 and the quality is top notch in both.

Neil Millers cordovan gets my vote.

Gentlemen,

I have long stopped choosing between the Neil Miller and the Kanoyama shell cordovan strops. I like both equally for their quality and the sheer pleasure of stropping. Sure, no particular strop, whether shell cordovan, latigo, English Bridle, among others, is the ultimate answer to stropping. Nell Miller and Kanoyama, however, enrich the shave because of the pleasure they offer the shaver.

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Originally Posted by entropy1049

As I have both the Kanayama and the Neil Miller, allow me to muddy the waters a bit ;)

The third option is out. The Kanayama and the Neil Miller are IMO the two finest strop makers anytime, anywhere. If you want the best, your choice is between these two.

In terms of collectability: The Kanayama. The Kanayama shell must be handled to be fully appreciated. But the sole maker is ~90 years old these days, and has no one to fill his shoes when he departs this plane. When he's gone, so are his strops, and their value will increase accordingly. At about 150 USD for the #3 with the added woven strop, it is the current bargain of the stropping world.

In terms of performance: The Neil Miller. The craftsmanship, hardware, and superiority of the construction materials of Neil's strops are unrivaled. He uses Horween Genuine Cordovan Shell, and his linen material is the best available today, period. As a performing strop, Neil's are simply the very best. He is also ornery and quite dedicated to a long life of belching forth snarky retorts on shaving forums, and therefore, likely to be with us for quite some time to come.

So, in a nut shell: for collectability purposes, get the Kanayama. For flat-out performance, get the Neil Miller.

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I am not snarky Mike - I just cannot abide idiots.

If idiots post mindless waffle and someone does not correct them, then newbies will see that waffle as the truth rather than the load of clap-trap it is.

I perform a public service in this respect, unpaid - it is purely vocational and out of the goodness of my kind heart.

I do hope I will be along for a while, but I am no spring chicken as it is, no one will follow me and at the time of writing I am gravely ill.

Like Mike says, I make a strop fully able to withstand the rigours of everyday use. The hardware in particular is solid and makes the jap stuff look laughable with its bent-over nail as a swivel. Mine often have rugged, stuffed handles as well as the much cheaper leather grip tabs - considerably cheaper tabs, I should say. The work of cutting out the handles by hand, gluing them together, trimming them, blacking the edges, stuffing them, stamping three holes in each so modular screw fit rivets can be attached then lining the lot up with the leather and/or linen strops (again, better than that horribly stiff, scratchy jap stuff that looks like jute seat strapping and unlike which is usable as-is rather than having to card it or scrub it to remove the stiffness) before punching them with three holes each takes a whole lot longer than folding a leather tab round the end and stitching or riveting it. Although I do offer both types. Occasionally I do a run of napped cowhide plus shell - this is hardly ever remarked on, but is snapped up as soon as it becomes available.

With me, you get what you pay for. If you are after a collectors item, I have little or no time for that, and if you are seeking worth for worth please take the overall lengths, clear stropping lengths, the expensiveness of shell and the expensiveness of real linen plus the widths I produce into account. Then you will get a clearer idea of what value is. Just because someone found something cheaper with smaller dims using lesser materials by a third party maker as a seemingly always-on special offer is not much of a criterion to go by.

I have not mentioned prices and I am not pursuing sales - I have never had to do that. If you dont like my stuff buy someone elses - thats fine by me. Just don't muddy the waters by 'spouting' perceived value when you have not taken everything into account, because I will "belch out' ridicule on you - I do not like being misrepresented.

Regards,
Neil

I find a strop to be the most highly individualized item in a shaver's kit, by far.

I've got most of the big name strops here. They are all serviceable, and most are well enough made. Neil Miller's workmanship is exemplary, and I personally favor his work, but there is more to it than that.
For myself, a strop is all about feel... And that is the quality that makes me like one over another, provided that one improves an edge as much as another. I love the feel, performance and suppleness of Neil's cordovan shell .. it's incomparable!

There is another maker that needs mention, however, and that is Torolf at Scrupleworks. I bought on a while back ... Vegetable Tanned horsehide and natural linen. Trimmed in embossed leather, it is a beautiful, hand made item. I've been using it exclusively for some time now as a test, until it is completely broken in. It is a wonder to strop on. The vegetable tanned horse is not as soft and supple as Neil's shell, but the draw is impeccable (for me), and the efficacy top notch. They are also made to one's own specs, and workmanship is top notch.

So, while I don't have a high grade Kanayama, I do have a #3. I replaced the suede second component with linen from Scrupleworks, and it's a nice strop, but IMO, a slight step down from Torolf and Neil Miller.

So, for me, to to top makers would be Neil Miller and Scrupleworks. But, everyone looks for different qualities in a strop, so, as always, your mileage may vary.

Gentlemen,

I must agree with my friend Druid on the Torolf strop. It's a sweet strop and I love mine. With a light to medium draw, which I prefer, the Torolf has a magnetic feel and is a pleasant stropping experience. Of course, the Torolf is in a different category than the Neil Miller and the Kanoyama. All good stuff, though.

OK, you guys are killin' me!

Now I need one of Neil's strops!!

It will never end I tell ya, never end....................:beer1:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I am not snarky Mike - I just cannot abide idiots.

If idiots post mindless waffle and someone does not correct them, then newbies will see that waffle as the truth rather than the load of clap-trap it is.

I perform a public service in this respect, unpaid - it is purely vocational and out of the goodness of my kind heart.

I do hope I will be along for a while, but I am no spring chicken as it is, no one will follow me and at the time of writing I am gravely ill.

Like Mike says, I make a strop fully able to withstand the rigours of everyday use. The hardware in particular is solid and makes the jap stuff look laughable with its bent-over nail as a swivel. Mine often have rugged, stuffed handles as well as the much cheaper leather grip tabs - considerably cheaper tabs, I should say. The work of cutting out the handles by hand, gluing them together, trimming them, blacking the edges, stuffing them, stamping three holes in each so modular screw fit rivets can be attached then lining the lot up with the leather and/or linen strops (again, better than that horribly stiff, scratchy jap stuff that looks like jute seat strapping and unlike which is usable as-is rather than having to card it or scrub it to remove the stiffness) before punching them with three holes each takes a whole lot longer than folding a leather tab round the end and stitching or riveting it. Although I do offer both types. Occasionally I do a run of napped cowhide plus shell - this is hardly ever remarked on, but is snapped up as soon as it becomes available.

With me, you get what you pay for. If you are after a collectors item, I have little or no time for that, and if you are seeking worth for worth please take the overall lengths, clear stropping lengths, the expensiveness of shell and the expensiveness of real linen plus the widths I produce into account. Then you will get a clearer idea of what value is. Just because someone found something cheaper with smaller dims using lesser materials by a third party maker as a seemingly always-on special offer is not much of a criterion to go by.

I have not mentioned prices and I am not pursuing sales - I have never had to do that. If you dont like my stuff buy someone elses - thats fine by me. Just don't muddy the waters by 'spouting' perceived value when you have not taken everything into account, because I will "belch out' ridicule on you - I do not like being misrepresented.

Regards,
Neil

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Neil,
I'm sincerely sorry to hear you're ill. Here's wishing you a speedy and full recovery. Take it easy and get better. We still need you. Snarky belches and all.

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Originally Posted by entropy1049

Neil,
I'm sincerely sorry to hear you're ill. Here's wishing you a speedy and full recovery. Take it easy and get better. We still need you. Snarky belches and all.

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Indeed, Neil is the coolest cat around these parts and his rapier wit is his best attribute.
Get well bro.

Neil

Sorry to hear that you are ill and wish you a quick and full recovery. I always appreciate your straight forward up front style in your posts.

Bob

Neil, get well, stay well. I appreciate your humor and straightforwardness. There is not enough of that these days. George Carlin did a great bit on how the English language has gone from direct to 'let me diffuse it by using a dozen modifying words so that I cannot, in any way, offend you when I call you a s**t'.

Black may be called ebony and a lot of other descriptives. Red may be called maroon, cherry, fire engine and a plethora of other descriptives. But truth has only one color. Try to apply descriptives to it and you've created a effen big, honkin' lie.

Some of us know what Neil is putting up with. Seeing his words is a blessing to me. I hope and pray to see them telling it as it should be told for many years to come. As has been said....Get well Soon, Mate! That's an ORDER! :D

Somehow, over the years, I have never once managed to use one of Neil's strops, though I've stood on his shoulders often enough when it comes to research and history.

However, I have seen his restoration work first-hand and it's simply perfect. I would assume his strops are as well, and honestly, the next strop I buy will be one of his.

And like Tom says: Neil, get well soon!

i'd vote for a kanayama. although, i know i will buy a neil miller in the future after the kanayama

Usually the people, talking about strops or straight razors, can say only what they like, but almost nothing about "why" they like that strop or straight razor. I don't need to know if a Neil Miller strop is better than a Kanayama, I need just to know if that one is right for my shaving and honing. Usually we can recognize the character of a razor: generally a Sheffield blade is sweeter than a Solingen one, but this doesn't mean that a Solingen blade will kill your cheeks. We know the usual hardness of modern and old french blade, but we don't know so much about the differences between different strops. I know that Miller and Kanayama are at the top of the quality, but can you explain me this quality, and how this quality affect your razors? I found a partial answer to my question reading this and other forums, I'm trying to understand how a strop is working through the experience of the other users.

How would we know what strop is best for your shaving?
Even though I love my Sheffields more, my best shave came from German steel.
I'm sorry the thread has not produced the results you wanted.

But you know my razors! :)
Anyway this thread was very useful because I'm interested on a Scrupleworks strop, the price is reasonable, hoping for good quality. Kanayama and N. Miller strops are not my choice because the customs fees and the lack of availability of the desired cordovan size respectively. Thank you for your support.

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Originally Posted by Rampa

But you know my razors! :)
Anyway this thread was very useful because I'm interested on a Scrupleworks strop, the price is reasonable, hoping for good quality. Kanayama and N. Miller strops are not my choice because the customs fees and the lack of availability of the desired cordovan size respectively. Thank you for your support.

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I can understand the concern with customs fees fully. I was under the impression that import customs fees were the same for EU made products no matter the which EU country they came from.

Also be aware that by contacting Neil Miller he can make a Cordovan strop to your specifications within reason of course. I wanted a 3 inch/about 8cm wide Cordovan leather strop but wanted a longish one. Neil was able to supply me with one that had 23.5 inch/about 60cm of useful stropping surface. You might not be stuck getting a stock item.

Anyway, from what I have read the Scruppleworks strop is also a fine strop.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

Also be aware that by contacting Neil Miller he can make a Cordovan strop to your specifications within reason of course. I wanted a 3 inch/about 8cm wide Cordovan leather strop but wanted a longish one. Neil was able to supply me with one that had 23.5 inch/about 60cm of useful stropping surface.

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+1

Neil was very accommodating in providing me a similar monstrously large strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rampa

But you know my razors! :)
Anyway this thread was very useful because I'm interested on a Scrupleworks strop, the price is reasonable, hoping for good quality. Kanayama and N. Miller strops are not my choice because the customs fees and the lack of availability of the desired cordovan size respectively. Thank you for your support.

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Lack of availability of lengths is not because of the makers, but due to limitations on the sizes of hides. I'm not a leather expert like Neil, but I believe that this is especially true of shell cordovan. If materials are available, Neil is great to work with, and will make anything your mind can envision. And, in my experience, it will exceed your expectations!

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Originally Posted by entropy1049

+1

Neil was very accommodating in providing me a similar monstrously large strop.

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Yea, you gotta make full use of those long arms. ;) Ya can't do that on a short runway.

Bob

Entropy, I'm jealous of your strop set, in the future I'll buy a Kanayama and N. Miller, in the meantime I hope well with my new Torolf strop.

Somehow I have come to own three Scrupleworks strops and a Tony Miller. I positively love the four of these strops. One is a 2 inch Scrupleworks travel strop. I’ve mated it to a piece of 2 inch linen I got from Neil Miller. I can roll that thing up, stuff it in a bag and fly away knowing that my razors will be well stropped when I get to where ever I travel with it. I pull it out of the bag, hang it and rub it with my palm as if stropping. Then it looks just like it does hanging in my closet. I don’t own a Neil Miller strop – yet. I simply haven’t gotten there. I would truly be sad if for some reason I could not someday obtain a Neil Miller strop. What I do know and happy to report about all three of these strop makers I’ve personally dealt with is that they are remarkably friendly, completely pleasant and prompt in their dealings, honest come rain or shine and all three make you want them to be your next door neighbor. You may wish you had purchased one over the other but, you won’t lack for quality with either of these three. Those Kanoyamas are very nice I’m sure. I wish no ill over the Kanoyama folks in any way, however, I wouldn’t be quite so put out if I could never obtain one of those.

Regards

Chasmo

Finally I got my new strop from Scrupleworks, it looks a very solid and genuine horsehide, vegetable tanned. I tried it on 2 solingen (Puma and Thoso) and 2 TIs, it worked very good but in a different way from my previous soft napped strop, at first I was believing that the new strop made my razors too much aggressive, but after a short break in (rubbing on it with my palm before shaving), the leather became softer and smoother. These my first 4 straight razors were honed on a old and excellent belgian coticule. Also the linen appeared too "rough" at my eyes but it worked good on the edges. Because the little draw I had to use my ears to understand that it was effective on the razors, now the edges are keener and gave me a more gentle touch on my skin. This new strop is about 50cm long and 5cm wide.

Attachment 187465

Attachment 187467

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Originally Posted by Rampa

Attachment 187467

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That's a really cool looking coti...

I just added a Scrupleworks Oil Tanned Horween Horsehide to my current lot of SRD Latigo, Kanoyama Board Strop, Tony Miller Horsehide and some other lesser know strops.

I absolutely love the draw of my Tony Miller but I bought it second hand and while there are no nicks or cuts in the leather, the leather was stained by what I expect was the CrOx that was pasted to one side of the linen.. it just looked worn. I have been in discussions with Tony and as soon as his inventory of materials is replenished I will most certainly replace my current.. it's that nice. Sadly, it doesn't look like Tony will be working with horsehide anymore and I have no experience with the Steerhide, though I am willing to give it a try. Tony describes the draw as very similar to the horsehide. Now, the linen.. Oh! The linen is by far the most delicious I have used very soft with a wonderful 'zzziiiiiip' to it.

Having said that, I just took possession of a Scrupleworks Oil Tanned Horween Horsehide with barber ends. The craftsmanship is incredible. It's a piece of artwork. The hardware end is tooled burgundy leather as is the end cap on the linen. The draw has been described as 'magnetic' and I suppose that's a good term to use, though I just consider it light to medium draw on very thin, supple Horween Horsehide. The results have been be awesome and it's a joy to use. However, the linen component is no where near what Tony Miller uses. It is much heavier & stiffer, and almost industrial feeling. If it weren't bridged to the horsehide but the tooled caps, it would almost seem a mismatch to the leather component.

Having both of these to compare, and considering TM horsehide is on the unobtainable list, me feeling is that my holy grail strop would be comprised of the Scrupleworks Oil Tanned Horrsehide for the leather component and TM linen...

Thank you for your appreciament on my coti, it was a present for me more than 30 years ago from my old barber shop. I appreciate it because I don't need of other stones after this, it seems to have a very high grit and gives a very gentle and effective edge. Back to the topic: why TM doesn't use the horsehide anymore? what is the difference from the Horween horsehide and the Horween Shell Cordovan? I know the Shell Cordovan is more expensive, but is it more efficient?

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Originally Posted by Druid

I find a strop to be the most highly individualized item in a shaver's kit, by far.

I've got most of the big name strops here. They are all serviceable, and most are well enough made. Neil Miller's workmanship is exemplary, and I personally favor his work, but there is more to it than that.
For myself, a strop is all about feel... And that is the quality that makes me like one over another, provided that one improves an edge as much as another. I love the feel, performance and suppleness of Neil's cordovan shell .. it's incomparable!

There is another maker that needs mention, however, and that is Torolf at Scrupleworks. I bought on a while back ... Vegetable Tanned horsehide and natural linen. Trimmed in embossed leather, it is a beautiful, hand made item. I've been using it exclusively for some time now as a test, until it is completely broken in. It is a wonder to strop on. The vegetable tanned horse is not as soft and supple as Neil's shell, but the draw is impeccable (for me), and the efficacy top notch. They are also made to one's own specs, and workmanship is top notch.

So, while I don't have a high grade Kanayama, I do have a #3. I replaced the suede second component with linen from Scrupleworks, and it's a nice strop, but IMO, a slight step down from Torolf and Neil Miller.

So, for me, to to top makers would be Neil Miller and Scrupleworks. But, everyone looks for different qualities in a strop, so, as always, your mileage may vary.

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I am giving Scrupleworks a go. Been hearing alot of good things about the quality and personal service. But now after you give this brand credence I will give it a try.

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Originally Posted by Rampa

......Back to the topic: why TM doesn't use the horsehide anymore? what is the difference from the Horween horsehide and the Horween Shell Cordovan? I know the Shell Cordovan is more expensive, but is it more efficient?

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I'll paraphrase from the email exchange I had with Tony.. short story is the vendors he was using to supply horsehide weren't providing cosistent quality. He switched to steerhide which he is able to inspect before he buys.

As far as the difference between the two leathers, I don't know. What I can tell you is horsehide is incredible and the oil tanned Horween Horsehide is amazingly supple, smooth and a joy to strop on. If that makes a difference in the edge, I can't tell... but it sure makes the stropping experience sensory rich and romantic.

A real shell cordovan is very expensive, maybe too much money considering that a pair of cordovan shoes cost about 300 euro ($370), but making quality author shoes require a lot of skill and time, much more than making a good strop (in my opinion). So I can't understand why a well made horween shell cordovan strop cost from 150 to 300 euro. May be the strops require a better choice in che cordovan leather stocks? So I can understand that the "horsehide" is a different thing from the Shell Cordovan, it is cheaper, but how is working compared to the best Cordovan? Today I can say that my horsehide Scrupleworks is my best choice on my straight razors for the quality of the edges.

We have strayed from the OP question, but since others have posted pleasant experiences with various strops, I will chime in.
I have a new piece of horse hide given to me by Mrsell63 that is a joy to use.
It is fitted to the hardware of a junk strop I had (first buy when starting out), has no handle (like old timer strops), and is less than 3" which I have been using.
This is from a sheet of horse hide Jerry picked up, and was kind enough to share.
It has a beautiful stroke, draw, and feel. Plus, I think I like the 'less than' 3" width.
I doubt it will have collector's value, but it is a sweetheart piece of horse hinny.

I certainly like my Tony Miller 3" steerhide.

I am partial to Neil Miller strops. Top quality product!