Just wondering if anyone has a supplier of Shell Cordovon Horse Hide. I know Horween in Chicago produces it but I don't know if they do retail sales.
Check out the Horween web site. Pretty interesting.
Slawman
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Just wondering if anyone has a supplier of Shell Cordovon Horse Hide. I know Horween in Chicago produces it but I don't know if they do retail sales.
Check out the Horween web site. Pretty interesting.
Slawman
Contact Horween and see if they may sell direct. Contact information is on their website.
Also, Home » Maverick Leather Company carries Horween and several other leathers.
Horween has a retail branch- Tannery Row
The last time I ordered from them, they took 6-8 weeks to ship. Let them know the size pieces you are looking to get. Shells are typically only 1-2 square feet, so if you want a 3x18 inch piece, they have to pick it by hand.
Thanks all. Chicago is only a little over 100 miles from me so Barb & I may have to make a road trip & visit Tannery Row.
Dave Huffman
What's the thickness of the shell? because modern shell usually comes from a much younger animal that's why it's rarely much thicker than 2.5mm.
Interesting question. Got curious and miked my Neil Miller shell strop at 2.11 mm and then a vintage stop I believe is shell and it miked about the same. I wonder if there is a difference in the shell from a pleasure horse compared to shell from a draft horse?Quote:
Originally Posted by celticcrusader
Bob
Pleasure horse? What's that? is that like a comfort or pleasure woman?
Draft horses are usually larger and much heavier than those used for rides and such.
You know the world's heaviest horse was Brooklyn Supreme back in the 30s.
Belgian draft horse Brooklyn Supreme of the 1930s stood
19.2 hands high, weighed 3,200 pounds, measured 10' 2" around,
took a 40" collar, and required 30" of iron to make one shoe.
(courtesy of Jim Richendollar, Draft Horse Archives)
Since you asked and for your edification https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...orse&FORM=IGRE .Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Bob
I recently talked with a UK shell producer he told me that the thicker shell came from very old working horses mostly draught breeds, he thinks that Kanayama strops which can be 4mm and 5mm thick are produced from much older animals, all the hides that he uses and most other tanneries are from much younger animals, which makes sense you would want to or even be able to produce a fine pair of bespoke shoes or boots from a Kanayama shell being 4 and 5mm thick, and that's basically what the shell market is producing shell for the finest shoes and bags.
Interesting thread...I've noticed that my own hide has gotten thicker as I've aged. I wonder if horses heads get thicker as well?
I just measured my Vintage Koken Shell Horse Hide strop & it is 0.154" thick which is around 4mm I think. Not up on metrics really. My other Shell horse hide vintage strop from Jager Barber Supply in Springfield IL. is 0.133" thick & the rough out treated sharpening strop with it is 0.125" thick. Both of these have turned into great strops with lot's of cleaning, small amounts of Fromm strop treatment , mink oil & lot's of hand rubbing.
Dave
Any idea of the time frame these were made in? Say 1920s, 30s or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
Bob
I would say that time frame more than likely. I will do some more digging to see what I can come up with. Both of these strops were flea market finds.
Thanks and those are better picking than you get around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
Bob
In the first half of the 20th century, many farms were converting from horse powered equipment to mechanized. There were a great deal of older horses to supply the leather. Since the shells are from a fairly small portion of the horsehide, and many of those horses were draft, there was a lot thicker and larger shell available. Hides used by Horween now are byproducts of the horse meat industry. The only ones I have gotten from Horween have been pretty thin, 4-5oz or about 1.7mm thick. I have a vintage one that is at least 10oz. I don't think there is as much demand for this leather now, especially with the high cost to produce it.
I got thinking about the thinner Shell that is produced now & I was wondering if gluing the shell to another piece of leather would give better thickness to the strop. The other thought I had is does the thickness really matter??
Dave:idea:
It does matter because you won't get any cupping or stretching on a 4mm or 5mm piece of shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
That's what Imperial Shave does with their shell cordovan strops.It's bonded to another piece of leather.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawman
Have to try that. Now I need to find info on how to finish a shell strop!! Thanks for the Info.!
Slawman
My Neil Miller comes in at 2mm, and my K3 at 2.5mm. I don't know that shell cordovan has issues with cupping like some other leathers, but I'm not an expert. I like the soft supple feel that the thinness provides, and makes my stropping easier, and I believe more effective.
That said, I've got a very special strop coming soon .. A "one of a kind," for now anyway :o
I'm very excited about it, as this will definitely be my last strop!
Sure Druid!:gl:
Hi Slawman, I have a vintage shell that feels wonderful but it leaves the tiniest nicks in the blade, probably due to storage or a knife compound used on it, so it will get Another cleaning and rubbed out with a bottle to "Sink" whatever the chip maker is that sticks out.
I made a strop from some horse hide Butt Shell but it is Not up to snuff and shows about an 1/8" thickness, is stiff even after several treatments.
Here is where they have way fair priced butt shell 7-9 weight
http://www.zackwhite.com/Horse-Hide-Butts_c_265.html
Buying a New high quality strop will only make you cry once and only buy a good one when you are decent at stropping motion, don't want to cut a new one. I see you've been here longer than I, so you probably know. Best regards.
Just to clarify, the butt strip and the shell are two different pieces of leather. The butt strip is from the waist of the animal, going across the back and down the sides. It still has the grain (skin layer of leather) on it. The Shells are the two circular pieces of leather on the rear flanks of the horse. They are typically about 2 square feet each. The difference in the two cuts of leather is that the fibers in the Shells run in all directions. Rather than having a specific grain, you have a solid piece of leather. They are processed in a traditional manner where the grain is removed, and they shells are cured for around six months. The butt strip on the other hand, has the grain surface usually left intact, and does not have as dense of fibers under the skin. It is typically cured and tanned in less than a month. Both work for strops, but they are very different pieces of leather, and how the razor feels on them is also different.Quote:
Originally Posted by FAL
Absolutely true DryGulch, for new folks an less expensive strop will do for practice, was my intention. I have my EYE on a pair of Clydesdales that are getting too Old, I like horses and they should be used for the best they give, rather than just go to Tallow, French Love them some Horse meat.
Late to this, but I wouldn't drive to tannery row. I'd call them. You're basically last in line for a shell, but as said previously, they will try to pick one that is best for you if you let them know (for example, if you get a #2 shell, they usually aren't as long as we'd like, but they can pick one that's on the long and narrow end of the spectrum).
I have a horse butt strip strop that I use every day. I bought a #2 shell several years ago and sold off the excess (which left me holding the bag for about $150 to make my strop - kind of dumb). I wish I'd have just used the horse butt. Horween shell starts out nicer and slicker than just about everything, but the surface treatment is very vulnerable to anything less than kosher brought to it. That includes razors that have an unexpected nick, razors with spinework, etc, and after not many uses, my horween strop is a lower performer than my broken in horse butt strop.
Buying (and finding) a smooth butt strip leaves you with a piece of leather that is aggressive and needs to be used some, but in the end, the strop is much more durable and the ability to keen a razor is just as good. To break my butt strip razor in (it literally scratched visible scratches on an edge when brand new), I used my daily strop, and then I stropped another razor (that I didn't care if it got scuffed a little bit) on the horse butt for about 4 weeks. By that time, it was smooth and fast and better than my other strops, and it cost about $15 in leather.
I wish I wouldn't have bought the shell that I bought - but it would've made wonderful shoes or wallets. If I made one like it again, I'd make a narrower strop and be careful about the razors I put on it, because the treatment on the surface - once it comes off, it's not coming back.
Horween also makes a chromexcel horse strip. This is a vegetable tanned horse strip, with a slight retan with their Chromexcel formula. I have made strops with both shells and this chromexcel, and the difference between them isn't enough to justify the cost, in my opinion. These chromexcel strips are about 30 bucks shipped, and are available at Maverick Leather and Tannery row. I like them a lot more than the horse butt strips, as they have a little more draw, but not as much as Latigo.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I'm convinced that stropping is like underpants...boxers or briefs, and some may not share my opinion on the horween shell. Just as lots of people like draw, and with broken in horse butt there's none. Mine is so broken in and so glazed on the surface that even though it's untreated, you can see an image reflection on it clearly. When you add oil to it, it just gets faster instead of slower (which wouldn't be the case if I oiled it a lot more heavily, I think, but it's interesting that just a little bit of mineral or neatsfoot oil and it slicks even more).Quote:
Originally Posted by Drygulch
So my comments about the durability of horween shell may not be applicable for someone who has razors with no spinework or who operates with greater care.
(i'd still have tried something different if I'd have known I could damage the surface finish so easily. I may be a little off base though, too...perhaps I haven't used the strop enough and maybe what's below the damage would get slicked back to something better if I used it more).
I have used & abused my Koken, Hand finished, Imported Shell Horse hide No.1 selection strop & I really haven't been to careful with it. It was pretty dried out when I got it & I cleaned it real good with saddle soap then kept it coated in Fromm strop dressing for about a month. It drank up that dressing & I just added more every few days. when that was done I coated it with some mink oil for a couple of weeks. Then cleaned it off & lightly sanded it with 250 grit sand paper. put a very light coat of the Fromm on the strop & used a rolling pin to flatten & compress the strop. I let it hang for about a week before using it & all I can say is WOW. It has a medium pull that I like. I have put a light coat of Fromm on it & rubbed it in with my hand about every 6 months. I also washed & dried & processed the scotch Linen strop & one side of it has .25 SRD diamond spray & it works great also.
Best $12.00 I ever spent.
Slawman