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I've heard that some folks can go months between needing hones just by using the linen (and leather) to maintain the edge. I have also heard that using the linen too much unnecessarily wears the edge beyond what is optimal and deviates too far away from the original bevel. I tend to like the shave resulting from incorporating a few passes on untreated linen in my stropping routine. If I use it daily should I expect to need more or fewer touch-ups on the hone?
Don't think you'll find linen or leather can damage or degrade the edge, unless you roll or damage the edge due to improper stropping technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaotuzi
One piece of material that frequently get's overlooked is suede...the Kanayama strops come with a suede component, and after somewhat ignoring it for the first few months, I know find it a vital intermediary step between the linen and leather, I find it's really mellows the edge, especially after a refresh.
Mind you, I'm one of the crazies here that believes in "progressive stropping" and using different types of strops for different type of grinds on blades, which of course is probably nonsense, but I have fun and no one loses an eye or has their internal organs harvested unnecessarily....:)
You can go indefinitely with proper caution and stropping, depending upon the razor and conditions.
They did it a lot back when. I have some which are better and better with using and stropping.
Very few go back to the stones yet.
I daresay that stropping perfects an edge.
"Spare the strop, spoil the edge"
Agreed!
I have said it before. I use paste from The Art of Shaving on the linen. Strop linen first then leather. I only have to touch up my razors once or twice a year. Yes they do get better after each strop.
Thanks for your replies and feedback. Good, I want to be able to use the linen without worrying about increasing the need for honing. I've been suspecting that I hone too often and really wanted to do more with the strop and less with the hones. I hesitated because I didn't want to inadvertently make the edge worse with the linen.
TBH, the fabric strop is actually a 'minuscule hone, straightener, cleaner, and maintainer'.Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaotuzi
Don't sell it short, nor ignore it.
Strops follow the bevel set with a bit more attention to the actual edge. If stropped properly, only good things will occur, FME.
My typical pre-shave regimen is 40 strokes on fabric, 100 on leather.
As I put them up, 20 and 40.
This is with no pastes. High and dry.
Seems to work swimmingly.
Better and smoother shaves as I go.
That helps, I've been going 5-10 fabric, 80 leather pre-shave. Then 30 leather after. High and dry. But I've been playing around with hones every few weeks too, wasting steel I suspect. I'll give 40/100 and 20/40 a try for a while and lay off the hones. Helping me a lot here, thanks guys.
I've gotten excellent intervals between honings by doing linen (40) / leather (60-80) pre-shave and leather (50) post shave.
It seems that fabric post-shave followed by a leather flogging is mucho importante.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Works for me!
In fact, as this goes on for a while, I can grab any razor for immediate use
(whilst rushed and in a bind) with no stropping whatsoever.
Will always shave a treat.
My stropping ritual before every shave is 20 laps on linen and then between 30 - 40 laps on leather with 20 laps on leather after the shave.
With this ritual I have gone over a year on some of my razors without actual having to be honed. Others I have just touched up on 12k Shapton.
I definitely believe that the linen stropping has helped maintain the edges.
Gentlemen,
I use only leather on the Kanayama followed by palm stropping. This seems to put a sweeter edge on my blades. The linen didn't seem to do much for me, and I no longer have the Kanayama model with the suede component.
Also, since I keep my stropping length at about seven to eight inches, rather than the entire length of the strop, my number count is about 75 strokes. About 50 palm strokes add the final touch to my stropping. I must say, I do enjoy stropping; it's relaxing. This keeps my blades in good shape for a while.
When the blades need refreshing, I do a few strokes on linen with CrO, followed by the standard set of strokes on leather and palm. Finally, if the blades need it, then I go to the hones.
On my Mastro Livi strop he uses chromium oxide on linen and it is a wonderful combination for restoring or refreshing an edge. Couple it with the skin side of the strop gives an amazing edge.
The leather Livi uses on his strops is something to be seen. I don't think I've ever seen leather with such a buttery feel to it ever. Often times I'll use linen and then the kanayama suede and then the leather livi and the result would make Obie cry and his face would say "no more Hollywood for me it's Broadway all the way".Quote:
Originally Posted by jkatzman
Spendur, actually I have a Mastro Livi strop on order and am looking forward to using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I've tried the palm stropping, much easier than I thought, but I wasn't doing that many on the palm, only around 10-15 laps. Going to try that again and increase the amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obie
The one area I found the palm stropping to make a real difference was with my Mongoose SE. I'd take a brand new Feather Pro blade, and strop it on the heel of my palm and I noticed it markedly reduced the harshness of the new blade.
Something to try again, and pay more attention...always interesting stuff to learn and experiment with.
Actually, I do enjoy stropping immensely. It relaxes me. That's why I run up high numbers on strokes. Also, as I noted earlier, I use a short stropping space, thus the reason for the higher number of strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
By the way, I have never tried stropping the Feather Pro on my palm. I will try it the next time I shave with my ATT SE2.
I too find stropping immensely relaxing, I love using Neil Miller linen for 50 or so laps then 80 or so on whatever leather I choose on the day. I find linen will increase the time a razor from needing to be refreshed though I won't use linen every time on a particular razor, some times I'll do 50 latigo then 50 shell. Smooooth!
I also palm strop DE blades for 20 or so times before each use.
I fully agree and too noted that - similarly to your observation with the Mongoose - palm stropping the Feather AC DX tames the initial harshness of Feather Professional and Professional Super blades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
B.
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You shouldn't need more then 20 palm laps. If you watch Mastro Livi, he uses his loom strop then the palm for a touch up. The palm stropping also works very well between passes. Give it 5-10 palm laps and then re-lather. As for the loom strop, I was skeptical it was that much better for the cost, but I am a believer now. It will really puts an edge on a razor and the leather or skin side smooths out the blade so you get a really comfortable shave. Worth every penny. Considering what I paid for the Suehiro 20k and other stones, the Mastro Livi loom is a bargain.
I agree and am actually on the low range of that with about 5 palm laps for a new Feather AC blade, 5 before a shave with a classic straight and about 3 between passes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jkatzman
That is after stropping the straight on a Livi loom strop.
But like many aspects of straight shaving, this is a work in progress and may evolve over time, but since I've started using the Livi strop my number of laps has drastically reduced as I found that I can achieve the desired results with much less and there is no tangible advantage in excessive numbers of laps.
B
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Agreed - with any new blade SE blade, around 5 laps on the heel of your hand and it really mellowed it out...I also remember reading the old, "corking the blade", to mellow out a new DE/SE blade. Think that may take a little too much off, and have never tried it....Quote:
Originally Posted by beluga
The kanayama linen takes some serious breaking in. Link below has some suggestions:Quote:
Originally Posted by Obie
KANOYAMA Kanayama #3 Cordovan Razor Strop
Yes, big process but worth it....Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I prepped the linen with some light Woolite and three times in the washing machine, hung to dry three times, and final was a light press with the iron. Lost the leather holder on the end, was definitely a long process, but the linen side is very supple now.
As I believe flax was mentioned, the "linen" side on the Tony Miller strop feels like a completely different material, but I find is much easier on the very hollow ground razors.:shrug:
OZ,Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Yes, I am in the process of washing the linen component. How it will come out who knows.
Birnando told me a long time ago that washing the Kanayama linen was the way to go. I hadn't done it yet, I just use the Tony Miller, or another of various vintage linens. My thinking was that if Kanayama left the linen so hard and stiff there must be method to their madness. That is what I get for thinking ..... :gaah: I'm going to do the washing thing now though and see how it works out. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Obie
Gentlemen,
The only component I like on a strop aside from the leather is fine natural linen. The linen on the Kanayama is far from that, and stropping on it is like stropping on an Armadillo. Either way, I have stopped using the linen component, on any strop, or if I use it, I opt for very fine linen and about 10 strokes maximum. Two of my linen strops are coated with CrO. Otherwise, I am for silky leather strops with a gentle draw.