"microabrasive" strop

Hi everybody,

I found a fellow that is well-respected on Reddit's subforum on straight shaving that sells strops, including something he calls a 'microabrasive' strop add-on. I'm not posting the link because (I think) I'm not supposed to link to vendors.

In his words (emphasis added).

Quote:

---

I have a new material which can replace the Nylon linen on my strops. This material is quite unique - It will improve your edge after every shave and maintain the edge for a very long time with no harshness. It is a better replacement than a treated strop which has been found to cause harshness (oversharpening) of the blade. This material is some sort of fiberglass (but it's not) layered on both sides of a flexible poly core - it is an microabrasive, much like a magic eraser. I use this exclusively now, personally. I have used it for about 3 months now as an experiment with one razor and the razor's edge has not noticeably deteriorated to the point where it's uncomfortable. I am extremely picky about how my edges are and the shave it provides. It works.

---

There are comments on Reddit about the quality of his strops, but nothing I'd call an "independent trusted review" about this specifically. Has anybody used it or knows someone who has?

I've decided to buy my first hanging strop and I'm tempted by this, as it sounds like it'd make my life easier in the longer term.

Any pasted strop is micro-abrasive if you like.

Interesting... if you end up pulling the trigger on one, be sure to post a review

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kees

Any pasted strop is micro-abrasive if you like.

---

Indeed! I was thinking that having such a strop would avoid the need to buy various pastes/sprays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malaverdiere

I found a fellow that is well-respected on Reddit's subforum on straight shaving that sells strops,

---

That "well-respected" fellow hones all full hollows with three layers of tape and all wedges with 5-6 layers of tape, so you might want to take that into consideration.

Just because I like things to be clear...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

That "well-respected" fellow hones all full hollows with three layers of tape and all wedges with 5-6 layers of tape, so you might want to take that into consideration.

---

Translation: his sharpening method is VERY questionable?
Implication: this guy maybe doesn't know what a good strop feels like?

Is that what you meant?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malaverdiere

Indeed! I was thinking that having such a strop would avoid the need to buy various pastes/sprays.

---

Unless you want to experiment with different particle size pastes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malaverdiere

Just because I like things to be clear...



Translation: his sharpening method is VERY questionable?
Implication: this guy maybe doesn't know what a good strop feels like?

Is that what you meant?

---

I will send you a PM.

I am guessing this is a diamond spray or similar sprayed onto a strop they are selling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

That "well-respected" fellow hones all full hollows with three layers of tape and all wedges with 5-6 layers of tape, so you might want to take that into consideration.

---

That is alot of tape :dropjaw:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

That "well-respected" fellow hones all full hollows with three layers of tape and all wedges with 5-6 layers of tape, so you might want to take that into consideration.

---

I just don't understand why this is frowned upon. It's been found that this works very well and I understand that quite a few folks are very happy with his work, inexperienced and experienced, alike. So if it apparently works very well, then why not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jnatcat

I am guessing this is a diamond spray or similar sprayed onto a strop they are selling.

---

No pastes or spray on the microabrasive strop, nothing is added.

So, what is it, then?


What is the grit?


Can you post a pic?

Absolutely.

It is a material that's used in industrial conveyor belts - that's extent of what I know about this. As far as I can tell, it seems to be some type of "fiberglass" weave embedded in a poly core (sandwiched) It's not fiberglass, it's not friable or anything of that nature. It is best described as already mentioned - the magic eraser material (Melamine foam) which is microabrasive - No idea on the grit but it's extremely fine if anything. With use, you can see the white turning grey very slowly this is a clear indicator of removing some metal.

http://i.imgur.com/a/j3sRP

An additional thought - this could be similar to the flax "firehose" material, just a lot more stiffer.

Thanks RocTraitor for sharing the pics! That's the first time I have the chance to see this material. It is much more rigid I'd have expected.

Obviously, I want all strop makers to be held to the same standards. I'm not asking for a grit rating for Lynn's canvas, for instance.

Your find may revolutionize the strop industry. That being said, because you advertise it as a microabrasive, and not "something with lots of draw", the question of particle size is bound to pop up, and I think it will be at your commercial advantage to explain your product better. You know how specific people are about their diamond sprays and all. One guy will swear about 0.5 micron CBN is the best ever, and the other will scream 'too coarse!' :)

(As a sidenote, I know that all this 'explaining' sucks - I spend a lot of time writing and re-writing papers so that people understand what I do and it gets tedious really fast.)

After much thinking, I chose to buy a more traditional option. That being said, I'd love to see reviews from more experienced folks on the forum, especially those who tried lots of strops and aren't competitors. Personally, I'd love lots of microscope pictures, and I wish more strop makers would provide them. But that's another story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RocTraitor

Absolutely.

It is a material that's used in industrial conveyor belts - that's extent of what I know about this. As far as I can tell, it seems to be some type of "fiberglass" weave embedded in a poly core (sandwiched) It's not fiberglass, it's not friable or anything of that nature. It is best described as already mentioned - the magic eraser material (Melamine foam) which is microabrasive - No idea on the grit but it's extremely fine if anything. With use, you can see the white turning grey very slowly this is a clear indicator of removing some metal.

http://i.imgur.com/a/j3sRP

An additional thought - this could be similar to the flax "firehose" material, just a lot more stiffer.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

That "well-respected" fellow hones all full hollows with three layers of tape and all wedges with 5-6 layers of tape, so you might want to take that into consideration.

---

One answer is a fellow that carefully measures his razor and computes the spine to edge angle
and discovers that an old soft spine has worn enough to need a lift of exactly
three layers of tape.

The reverse dimensional error is interesting. Always honing a blade with tape can protect the spine
to a degree that after half a lifetime the spine is too thick and the angle too open.

Tape is a tool. One use is to tape a note on the wall to not use too much tape.

EDIT...
The comments on microfiber got me looking.... because they are finer than cotton or
linen they might grab and remove minor surface cruft that linen and cotton might not.
Sub micron abrasives might get trapped and work better. One note it should(?) be a split
microfiber. Non-split microfiber is little more than a very soft cloth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber

Why do smaller fibers clean better?
Microfibers are able to attach themselves to even the smallest, most microscopic dirt
particles—ones that normal cloth fibers (positively giant in comparison) crudely brush past.
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/microfibercloths.html

EDIT #2.
A couple years back there was a honing thread involving the microfiber cloth on
glass or hardwood to hold sub micron abrasives and strop.

I searched for a conveyor belt reinforced canvas material with a cotton surface
and found some interesting stuff so who knows?

I would like to try a strip of this to see the affects.

Have you tried to compare the stria to a known grit?

And is it consistent from piece to piece, I take it there is no added grit, just what is in the material?

I've been playing around with .5 CrOx and it will be interesting to see how this compares to the CrOx, i have heard several boast about using vintage fire hose for stropping and it's supposed to better than flax linen but i have never used it, I have used poly webbing and don't like it at all.

Nylon webbing (seatbelt type) is better, makes a good strop with about the same results as most leather, makes a great pasted strop.

Polyester Canvas Sailcloth is my favorite for Chrome Oxide. I use paper strops for Nano grit sprays/paste, that can be misted wet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jnatcat

I've been playing around with .5 CrOx and it will be interesting to see how this compares to the CrOx, i have heard several boast about using vintage fire hose for stropping and it's supposed to better than flax linen but i have never used it, I have used poly webbing and don't like it at all.

---

I have been playing around with a vintage fire-hose strop that I made up around Christmas. The one I have is a bit rough for razors IMO, but I just treated one side with .5 micron diamond spray and the other with CrOx. That combo starting with about 25 strokes on the diamond side followed up by maybe 30 on the CrOx side will really put a wicked final edge on even the hardest knives. If I could figure out a way to make it softer, it might be good for razors. But I'm not too worried as I've got a nice piece of cotton linen That I strop my razors on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

I have been playing around with a vintage fire-hose strop that I made up around Christmas. The one I have is a bit rough for razors IMO, but I just treated one side with .5 micron diamond spray and the other with CrOx. That combo starting with about 25 strokes on the diamond side followed up by maybe 30 on the CrOx side will really put a wicked final edge on even the hardest knives. If I could figure out a way to make it softer, it might be good for razors. But I'm not too worried as I've got a nice piece of cotton linen That I strop my razors on.

---

Work it over a 2X4 ,preferably a hardwood and not pine.treat it like a tanner does a green hide on a fleshing beam.it will soften up .

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RocTraitor

I just don't understand why this is frowned upon. It's been found that this works very well and I understand that quite a few folks are very happy with his work, inexperienced and experienced, alike. So if it apparently works very well, then why not?

---

It makes a razor that shaves, but that doesn't shave quite as well as the razor would if the edge is good without tape. (by good, I mean that you will occasionally run into a good razor that is otherwise fine with tape, but will not hold its edge without. I've got an expensive kikuboshi razor like that. It works "fine" (OK is how I would put it) with tape, but it is not as easy through the hairs as other razors of the same steel and grind that don't need the tape.

My opinion is that the only reason to use tape if you don't have to is if you are just absoultely preserving a new looking spine at all costs. Proper honing and care negates the need to do that, but some do it, anyway, and that's OK.

If someone is defaulting to that many layers of tape on all razors, I see it as a shortcut with a compromise. That may make a few people mad, but the simple truth is that a razor is a little harder to sharpen without tape and get it dead nuts every single time. When it's right, it's the best edge, though, because the bevel right behind the edge is thinner and doesn't have to wedge hairs off in a cut as much. Same as a paring chisel has a lower angle than a bench chisel and works better for paring because of it.

re: new materials, I generally hone a razor once every 200 shaves or so. 3 months is not out of the ordinary for any good linen - it's only partially into the honing cycle, but the strop that I use is a vintage silk-finish linen and then a piece of horse butt strip of my own make (make is loosely used, all I did was find a good piece, cut it with a marking knife and break it in and it has outperformed everything else that I've bought in the long term - and I have made a strop out of a no 2 horween shell (I still have it) and bought kanayama's finest - it's the break in period that would be offputting to people for the butt strip).

In terms of strops, little is out there that betters the treated vintage linens. We have seen scads of attempts at various linens, and the ones I've used often are far less good than a vintage silk finish labeled strop (of any make). NOS versions of what I'm mentioning often go for about $25 on ebay, and are a lifetime linen that is proven not to dull a razor. Usually when you hone just to "check in" around 200 hones, the edge takes a step back for a short period of time until it's hit the linen a couple of times again. It would be nothing to get a full year of daily shaves out of a single edge without re-honing.

I haven't seen any listings for what's being discussed, but we have to measure it against things that were proven before the resurgence, and the vintage treated linens are something that I have not seen duplicated or matched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RocTraitor

Absolutely.

It is a material that's used in industrial conveyor belts - that's extent of what I know about this. As far as I can tell, it seems to be some type of "fiberglass" weave embedded in a poly core (sandwiched) It's not fiberglass, it's not friable or anything of that nature. It is best described as already mentioned - the magic eraser material (Melamine foam) which is microabrasive - No idea on the grit but it's extremely fine if anything. With use, you can see the white turning grey very slowly this is a clear indicator of removing some metal.

http://i.imgur.com/a/j3sRP

An additional thought - this could be similar to the flax "firehose" material, just a lot more stiffer.

---

I replied before getting to the end of this thread. I stand by my comments above, of course, but you're who I'd guess you are on etsy, it looks like you're a reasonable guy with happy customers (as opposed to someone selling shiny reflections and romantic talk at high prices).

Quite true! Your comments have been quite insightful, thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Have you tried to compare the stria to a known grit?

And is it consistent from piece to piece, I take it there is no added grit, just what is in the material?

---

No, I have not compared the stria - I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

I did an experiment when I got the microabrasive - I stropped every time before I shave with the microabrasive and the shave is always excellent and no changes were detected- I've stayed with one razor (A Fili 13 Sub Cero) for two months for testing and the edge remained keen and soft throughout.

I needed a comparison so I used a separate felt strop treated with CrOx and it became harsh and uncomfortable rather quickly. We all know that pastes are an occasional use to touch up the edge.

I feel that the microabrasive is at the "just right" level of abrasiveness to maintain the edge rather than deteriorating the edge through excessive sharpening.

As far as I can tell, the manufacture of the microabrasive is extremely uniform and consistent. I haven't seen any blemishes or errors in what I've handled which is several hundred feet so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malaverdiere

Thanks RocTraitor for sharing the pics! That's the first time I have the chance to see this material. It is much more rigid I'd have expected.

Your find may revolutionize the strop industry. That being said, because you advertise it as a microabrasive, and not "something with lots of draw", the question of particle size is bound to pop up, and I think it will be at your commercial advantage to explain your product better. You know how specific people are about their diamond sprays and all. One guy will swear about 0.5 micron CBN is the best ever, and the other will scream 'too coarse!' :)

I know that all this 'explaining' sucks

Personally, I'd love lots of microscope pictures, and I wish more strop makers would provide them.

---

You are welcome. I'm aware people like to have a number (particle size and uniformity in this case) but something like this - it can't be provided unfortunately without a lot of examination and such (Especially because the intended use for this material is not for stropping use). This material def. does not have much draw at all, it is very slick. It has a slight "furry" feel although (It will stick to your shirt if you drag it across). I forgot to mention that I have to sand the surface to bring that up, so it's kind of breaking up the fibers on the surface to serve as the microabrasive, really.

As for the micro pictures, I will see what I can do (dig up my USB microscope and see what comes out of it).

The problem may have been the felt more than the chromium oxide (if that was graded crox). I'd check the bare felt. I've tried two felt strops, and both of them left visible scratches, as compared to a vintage linen which will eventually massage a bevel into a bright polish and that's about it.

Presumably the fiberglass belt/material that you're using has silica in it, and if it's tiny or smooth, that would explain why it will do a little but not much. Silica-based abrasives cut peaks well, but once a surface is uniform, if the razor is reasonably hard, the abrasive won't do too much to it. That's not the case with larger silica abrasives like sand stones, hindostans, etc, especially when there are free particles roving around, but you probably won't have those in fiberglass.

At any rate, hopefully, I'm not coming across too critical. Usually when someone comes along with the new sliced bread, they're selling shiny flashes and romantic language with really high prices, and I see you're not running that kind of operation, so more power to you.

Very true about the felt.

It's entirely possible about the silica - I haven't been able to get more concrete information about the material- proprietary stuff and all, from the mfg. I don't get any scratches on the bevel after the final hone, at least that I can see, so if there's any it's quite small, if anything, it is possibly further polishing the edge (without causing it to be harsh) which can't be a bad thing.

You aren't coming across critical at all, it's good to have thoughts/insight about things like this - I've just had success with the material and decided that I could pass it along to others, everything has come back to me positive so it's been working out well for others. If it wasn't decent I wouldn't have anything to do with it.

You must be sanding lots of stuff to test their abrasive properties! Because the potential of that material just doesn't leap at you.
That being said, I think you should contact the manufacturer. They may be making a somewhat different product that would work even better, and without sanding. And maybe you can convince someone in their R&D department that diversifying their operations would work. This might work great for my kitchen knives too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RocTraitor

You are welcome. I'm aware people like to have a number (particle size and uniformity in this case) but something like this - it can't be provided unfortunately without a lot of examination and such (Especially because the intended use for this material is not for stropping use). This material def. does not have much draw at all, it is very slick. It has a slight "furry" feel although (It will stick to your shirt if you drag it across). I forgot to mention that I have to sand the surface to bring that up, so it's kind of breaking up the fibers on the surface to serve as the microabrasive, really.

As for the micro pictures, I will see what I can do (dig up my USB microscope and see what comes out of it).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jnatcat

I would like to try a strip of this to see the affects.

---

Got a chance to try yet? I'm veeeery curious.