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Hey everyone,
I got this NOS C-Mon De Lux strop that seems to have a bend in the middle from storage or whatever. What would be the best way to remove the bend and get the strop back into a usable state. From what I hear they are great strops so I am very excited to get it working. Any suggestions would be apprecaited. Thanks so much!
Attachment 267174
that is a beautiful strop, and it appears to have its original linen attached (which will be a treat if you use it as it was designed to be used).
You have two choices that I've used and that work - you can sandwich it between two pieces of wood and leave it in clamps, and it will straighten out some.
Or you (can) if it's pliable, work it over a curved surface every day to let it relax, and then hold it in a position opposite of the bend. it should be straight or very close in a few days. (this is what I'd do)
Above all, let it hang from a nail or something if you're doing nothing with it - use and gravity would straighten it without any other trouble if it's still clean and not stiff.
Thanks very much! I'll be sure to do all those things. From the looks of it, it does appear pretty well preserved and not dried out or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
One question, assuming the original linen is there, what would be the manner it was designed to be used beyond the regular prep stropping? I'm not a fan of using pastes or sprays on fabric strops so I wouldn't be doing that.
In my experience (I've been using one now for about 6 or 7 years), the leather is an every day kind of thing, and the linen about once a week. The linen will have sort of a waxy feel to it and that waxy stuff will get on the razor, you can just wipe it off with a piece of T-shirt or something that won't damage the edge, and then go to your leather strop.
I would never add an abrasive to it - never never never, its virtue is that it's a bit stiff with an edge without damaging it and the lack of abrasive means that it will keep the edge straight without wearing it rounded. Used properly, it is a thing of joy. It is not hard to keep a razor off of the hone for 200 shaves with this combination, and in my experience, when I do hone a razor, if I remove the edge, the linen edge even at 200 shaves was better quality than a freshly honed edge. Easily HHT passing and very smooth despite several hundred accumulated shaves, and it takes a couple of sessions on the linen in the course of regular use to get that edge back. That makes this cycle of use very very good for daily shaving (the edge is consistent and smooth, but sometimes doesn't peak until its seen the linen 3 or 4 times), and not so great if you're trying to hone quickly because you're doing it as a business.
If the strop has never been used on the leather surface but is still in good shape, uncontaminated and pliable, you'll probably need to break it in to get the surface smooth. In the rare event that I've introduced a strop (which has only happened twice), it's easier to take a razor that you're not using and strop it on the new strop each day along with stropping the razor you're using on the strop that you're currently using. It makes sure you don't get in a rush with the new strop, but conditions the surface, and your wasted time each day is a matter of a minute or so, but within a month or two, you have a broken in very excellent strop (assuming it's horsehide given its era) that has been broken in doing exactly what you intend to do with it, so there will be no adjustment period. You can tell if the strop isn't broken in yet by whether or not it improves the edge of a razor without scratching. If it doesn't, it's not broken in.
Thanks very much for that info. I had no idea the linen strop was so versatile and good at getting a keen edge. I'll definitely give it s try using it as you said.
I was thinking that if the shell is a bit dry I would use a very very small amount of neetsfoot oil on it to help with conditioning and straightening. Is that the best conditioner for the job?
Pure Neatsfoot Oil is a classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
Look for solutions to keep horse tack solid: Passier's LederBalsam
Because this is an old strop be gentle and allow any conditioner time
to work. Like you said a small amount..
One saddle shop on the web noted: Very dry leather may need to be treated on its underside with a thin coat
of warmed Neatsfoot Oil, or fed with a thick saddle food such as Effax Lederbalsam, Passier Lederbalsam
or Stubben Hammanol.
I have a tiny tin of conditioner for leather bicycle seats that rubs in nicely with a knot of dry paper.
It has a bit of wax to polish the surface. Boot polishes are often more wax than anything else.
The equestrian folk may have the best variety of leather care products.
Check locally for shops.
Recall that Neatsfoot Oil is a rendered animal fat that does not solidify at room temp (oil).
A lot of stuff like 'neatsfoot oil for baseball gloves' is blended with mineral oil.
The answer for what to do is not clear even to experts.
Leather Dressing: “To Dress Or Not To Dress” |
Since many oils go rancid less is more. Do store extra oil 'correctly' in an airtight container.
Today coconut oil, avocado oil, even unsalted bacon fat and more could all work with thin applications in moderation.
In fact, any hand moisturizer could be rubbed on a strop after moisturizing your hands.
Hopefully the conservative methods will work but if they don't there is the nuclear option. Soak the strop in warm water until saturated then let it dry slowly followed by treatment with leather conditioner.
That always works in severe circumstances but marks will be left on the strop which are permanent.
I could guess you have not received the strop yet?
You may want to slow down in gathering advise until it arrives and it can be photographed and evaluated. Seems you have posted it before and the crease in the middle is (still) an unknown quantity?
Looks like it has a plastic slip over it, might not be too bad under that.
No. I have received it. It's not a crease. Really a roll or curve. Can be pulled straight without any mark on the strop. But doesn't hang straight with only gravity's weight. I placed it under a few heavy text books until I could deal with it properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Attachment 267191
Well, a strop in a bag is a pig in a poke, you know. ;)
If you are pressing it without any other action, it still may well crack on you.
But hey! I gave my advise in the previous thread.
Best of luck! :gl:
No. Water is the best first conditioner if the strop is dry. You can destroy leather by just saturating it with oil. Take a washcloth and just barely dampen it, then gently wipe the strop to transfer some moisture to it, wait 10 minutes, and gently wipe it with a dry cloth. IF you want to add some Neatsfoot oil, then only do it after the strop has been dampened and dried in this manner first. Use very little. Personally, I prefer only to apply the oil to the backside of the strop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
THERE's a pic! Now....What does the top side of the strop look like in the 'bent' area?Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
Attachment 267193Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
More or less like the rest of the strop. A bit lighter in color perhaps. But over all, I'd say the same. Those black marks were on the strop when I received it. Haven't tried to clean them. Don't really feel like they protrude off the surface.
Very good! THAT is the money-shot! Wipe with damp cloth and condition as you feel best.
Just avoid a pile of neetsfoot.
Go slow, get some moisture in it and then press it some. I would begin with a good leather conditioner after that
After a few shots, hang it and begin rubbing it, both sides. Should come around.
Dry fibers in leather will break if not moisturized in some way.
Some advise from an old strop maker;
Attachment 267202
Thanks very much to everyone who helped me out! I really appreciate it! With your help I'll get this back to work in no time.
With no real crease that should come out easily. No heavy duty tactics needed.
Very timely thread for me, as I just bought Bouschie's old shell strop from our BST. It looks to be in great shape, but maybe a little wavey in the pics. I can't wait to get it home and try it out-I've never stropped on shell, and can't wait to try it!
It can take months to re-hydrate a vintage strop. Do so slowly, applying oil a few drops, at a time after opening the pores with a bit of water as described and waiting for the water to absorb.
Then wait a week or two before adding more. Too much too quick can be just as as damaging, as the lack of moisture.
The linen would probably benefit from soaking, scrubbing and most importantly through rinsing, and then rolling while damp. It can take several full cycles. Be careful when wet, you can literally break the strop in half. Flax will swell and get rock hard.
There are many good threads here on re-hydrating/ restoring leather and linen. If the strop has value to you, invest a little time, before you apply anything to it.
As many said. Slowly rehydrating the leather with water is the key in bring old strops back. Avoid oil until until you get it rehydrated
The linen piece came with a waxy coating on it. Should that still get soaked? It does seem stiff, but as if it was meant to be that stiff because of the wax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Linen were treated with a number of things and many are stiff, but I have washed many and they come out soft and floppy, They also produce a much better finish. The down side is it may shrink a inch or so, but hanging, weighted and rolling will minimize the shrinking.
The trick is to soak in a mild soap solution overnight, scrub with a brush and soak in a water/vinegar solution and rinse in clear water. Roll the strop when damp, allowed to dry a little/. Keep repeating the process until you rinse water is clear.
Rolling will loosen the fibers, release all the dirt and dust trapped in the weave and make the strop soft.
Here is a post on cleaning and rolling a flax fire hose.
Thank you for the advice. It is appreciated, as is everyone's help and comments.
Should I be attempting to totally remove the wax treatment with the soakings or just loosen up the linen and keep the wax?
This is the first vintage strop I've owned so I am not well versed at all in restoring a strop.
Don't remove the wax. That's part of the linen treatment and was intended for the user, and wouldn't be in it if it didn't have a purpose. If you're using the linen to keep the razor in shape, it feels harsh because of the wax stiffness but will not damage an edge. If you take the treatment out of the linen, it won't work as it was intended to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1222
You can get another used linen (one that someone has ruined by treating it with abrasives - such a linen will be gray/black in the middle with metal swarf) to wash out if you want to try it untreated, but I would absolutely not do it to a strop of the quality of the one you have - preserve the original and use it as it was intended and you'll grow to appreciate the fact that it can stretch you out to a year between honings without any loss in edge quality.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Euclid that you may find the linen nicer to use without any treatment, but you can do it with another linen that's not part of such a beautiful strop. I like the linen with the treatment in tact, but I suspect that I am doing something not many are doing (which is allowing the razor to stay away from stones despite having probably 75 stones at the moment).
The other benefit to leaving that treatment is that if you do accidentally get something on the surface, it will just sit on the surface of the wax and you can wipe it off. If you decide you hate the wax, you can always remove it later, but you'll never be able to put it back if you take it off.
Don't worry about softness with the linen, by the way. It won't hurt the razor. Mine is still stiff and I have a feeling that it was from the factory. Some old ones I've found are less so, but it's probably a matter of lack of treatment - the better strops always have a fairly stiff linen. This situation is entirely different than fresh flax linen made recently that needs to be soaked and treated to remove its roughness - you'll find your linen to be stiff, but not rough by any means. Your first use of it will have you convinced that it must be damaging the edge, but wipe the wax off of your razor after using it, strop it on leather, and you'll be surprised that no damage is done.
Thanks DaveW,
I was wondering about the very same thing with my Red Imp strop. I brushed it with woolite and when it dried it was still pretty stiff. Thank you very much for sharing that piece of information.
It is a matter of personal preference, I wash all my vintage linen strops and remove all or any treatment, and every strop I have washed, contained a lot of dirt and grit, taking several washings.
If it is a vintage, strop even NOS it is most probably dirty from dust. And that dust/dirt is abrasive. I am not sure that vintage strops were meant to be used stiff.
I do know that Mr. Naomi, the maker of Nanayama strops, has always advised that his Nanayama linen strops, were intended to be washed, prior to use.
Here is the link to Aframes, the admonition and an explanation on how to wash his linen strops. (Aframes, Nanayama Strops)
You might do as suggested and try the linen, then decide if you want to wash it, personally, I would wash it. I prefer the performance from a clean linen strop.
Naomi's problem is that he doesn't get linen really intended for razors. His linen is stiff and coarse, but the linen in a silk finish linen isn't. I know he's commented that he can't get good linen, and his linen bears little resemblance to what's in old strops.
Some of the vintage strops come with little in them in terms of wax, and those will be dirty. The NOS strops that have a fairly heavy treatment that is in them through and through should be left as is, though no doubt the linen underneath is likely very good quality.
I may be in the weeds a little because my silk finish linen (and its horse strop) was still in the wrapper when I got it, so it was clean. Definitely stiff, and I was sure it was hurting the razor the first time I used it only to find out it wasn't. Someone who put that mixture on those linens had a reason for it, as it would've been cheaper and easier to leave them untreated if that's what they felt was preferable. It's not a soft wax, and may be petroleum based or beeswax based.
There are a lot of dirty and less expensive linens (without the treatment on them or with minimal) that can be used, I'd just hesitate on something that was high dollar like the strop shown to remove something that in my experience improves the strop. As you say, if it's filthy, then it's contaminated and that's a different story.
The other bit of evidence that I see in the older strops is that the high quality heavily treated linens seem to reside on the expensive strops, but not so much on the inexpensive strops. The inexpensive stop linens are closer to plain linen in most cases.
Actually, the instructions for breaking in the linen on the Aframes Tokyo site is from Iwasaki's guide from 1963. It's Section 1, Part 7: "How To Soften A Hard Strop" on page 10 of the PDF (page 5 in the Index). No mention at all that these directions were written for Kanayama strops.
Here is a PDF of the guide if you want a copy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nb7xshtnm...20New.pdf?dl=0
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not sure if you're implying what I'm implying, which is that the kanayama strops are untreated. They have to be broken in because they are hard linen. A different animal than the silk finish linen on a red imp strop, which very definitely has the wax on it and is to be used as it is. The OP will understand what I mean by the wax being in it through and through. It's not a quickie treatment that was just globbed on - it's very deliberately made that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by sqzbxr
One of the reasons we lose the subtlety of just how good those linens are is that nobody hones and shaves that way these days. We're hone happy, which is a shame, because the edge from a treated linen of this type is more elegant, smoother, etc, and more constant day to day. It makes shaving an irritation free-pleasure, but sharpness is easily fine to do the job.
