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This might seem rather odd, but I have a simple question. I purchased the "poor man's strop" from Whipped Dog. I put plenty of nicks in it while learning to strop my razors. Therefore, I began to use the rough side of the leather for stropping. Is there anything inherently wrong with using the other side? I continue to get a good shave, but wonder if it is making it worse or helping. Thanks in advance.
From my own experience the rough side is not as smooth of a shave. I use the rough side instead of a fabric sometimes and then go onto the smooth leather.
Sounds like you may have answered your own question. If the shave feels good...?
I guess I am wondering if it could improve when I get around to replacing it, or perhaps allow me to go longer between stropping on the balsam (about once a week at this point).Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk742
How bad are the nicks in the smooth side? You may be able to sand them some. A photo would help. I have a Hoffritz strop I have used for about 30 years. It has nicks that I sanded smooth and it still is my favorite.
I'll take a picture soon and post it on this thread. I nicked it up pretty good learning to use it. Thanks for the help.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouschie
Whatever works for you is fine. However, since you've learned to properly strop, you haven't had the opportunity to strop your razor on a smooth, quality piece of leather, which I'd highly recommend.
There is a reason we recommend inexpensive strops for newcomers. A "Poor Man's Strop" fits that description nicely. I suspect nearly all of us had a similar experience with our first strop; I know that I did. While you might be able to sand the nicks in your strop to salvage it, perhaps it is time for you to consider replacing it with a better strop. Hopefully, by now, your stropping skills are such that nicks are now infrequent and you can use the new strop for the rest of your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by lightcs1776
Thanks, RayClem. I will definitely be looking for a replacement in the next few months. I'm wondering if another "poor man's strop" is worth while or a better strop would be worth the investment. Although I love to window shop, I simply will never spend $100.00 plus on a strop.
So, what happens when you strop on the smooth, nicked side? Have you tried gluing up the cuts with rubber cement?
Stropping is an acquired skill. It probably takes about a year before most new shavers are consistently improving an edge. Up to that point it probably does not make much difference.
You can improve the rough side of the leather by scraping it smooth with a cabinet card scraper, or large sharp kitchen knife. Lay the strop flat on a counter and take short light pass with the blade held 90 degrees to the strop. As you remove the uneven leather it will get smoother and you can take longer smoother strokes. If done properly, you will end up with a finish similar to a napped suede like finish.
Once your stropping improves, buy a better-quality strop and your edges will improve further.
Here is the current state of the smooth side of the strop.
Attachment 305077
Glue down the flaps with rubber cement and sand the cut once dry.
Start with some 400 and a hard backer to try to smooth it out. Can you flip the strop so you are stropping on the other non cut edge?
If that does not work, scrape the back.
I was thinking the same. If possible, Take strop apart and flip it around. Then your stropping on the other edge. Still, sand out and glue. This will keep bad things from happening for now. Your a bigger man than I. I wouldn't show what I did to my first. It went in the trash as soon as I bought a second. Ashamed is the word. But it happens to most of us in the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightcs1776
Each of us has our own budget constraints. There are lots of nice strops that can be purchased for under $100. For example, Tony Miller currently has his 2 1/2" Plain Vanilla strop on sale for $45. It is not as elegant as Tony's premium strops, some of which do cost over $100.
The suggestions for reversing the direction of the strop to put the nick on the far side, do make sense if you do not wish to purchase a new strop at this time.
The rough side can work quite well actually depending on the roughness and how it is used. The Illinois 827 for example, their Russian strop is actually the reverse, flesh side of the hide.
I enjoy using a fairly 'tame" rough/flesh side leather as it gives and increased draw which I prefer for heavier razors and even my knives. A slightly rougher flesh side may be good as a preliminary strop before going to a smoother one and some guys use a progression of strops ever time before shaving. of course the rough side can also be handy pasted in more of a honing mode. I have used both veg tanned rough sides as well as waxed/oiled bridle type rough sides with good results.
Tony
lightcs1776, I wouldn't despair over your cut-up first strop. All of us have cut up ours, but not all of us have the humility to show our handiwork in the raw. You have my respect. :beer1:
As Tony said, flesh-side-out can work well. I have one of Tony's flesh-side-out "Russian style" steerhide strops, and I use it for two situations: first as a super quick drying strop to get any moisture off the edge after a shave when I'm in a hurry to get to work and don't have time for a full post-shave stropping sequence. It ensures the edge is dry better and faster for me than any linen or smooth strop I've used. And as Tony also said, I use it as part of a strop "progression", going from linen, to "Russian", to smooth steerhide or Kangaroo as a finisher.
But on your smooth side, I wouldn't give up. When you cut your strop, never peel off the cut part (that creates an uneven surface), glue the cut flap down immediately. A little rubber cement or super glue (what I use) to glue down the cut surface, followed by sanding with 600 or 1000 grit sandpaper, followed by a lot of hand rubbing over time, will bring it back. It may not look great cosmetically in the places you repaired the cuts, but it will still work as good as it ever did, in my experience.
Here are some shots of my first Tony Miller 2.5" latigo and glass-slick 2" horsehide, which I more or less cut to pieces over the first few years of use. On the horsehide, I almost cut the thing half in two right up across the logo. But a great strop is a great strop, and I'm not going to toss a trusted old friend because of a few mistakes. I'm not cheap, I'm sentimental.
I glued down the cut "flaps" I created, weighted them down with heavy books to press them down during drying, sanded them after fully drying, hand rubbed a lot, and they still work fine today. Now they have character. Use more glue than you think you'll need, it will sand off. Better too much glue that will easily sand off, than a stray piece of "flap," which actually will affect your stropping and edge. All those lines you can see on the strops were originally full-blown flap cuts, mostly pretty deep ones, especially on the horse. If I run my finger over them since the repair, they are like glass, I can't feel them.
Attachment 305349
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@FatboySlim I will try gluing the smooth side down. I assumed it was far too gone for that, but it is definitely worth a try. Thanks.
@lightcs1776.... I have had a couple strops with nicks just like yours.. After spending time glueing or bonding the leather tabs down they usually didnt turn out that well ... So to my rescue was a long time shaver and member.. He told me to use a new SE razor and cut the flaps as flush to the strop as possible, rolled up 400-600 grit sandpaper to about cigarrette size or a little bigger, slowly, softly smooth out any divet ridges then continue to blend that smooth divet outward until it feels like you sqeezed the leather hard and thats the indent it leaves.. I like thick cowhide so this was easy for mine as i then proceded to sand the whole strop face down with quite a bit of leather dust.. Clean the keather and Neatsfoot a little at a time.. After my 1st strop got cut down to smaller bench, paddles, etc.. All others that for nicked up pretty good ive done this and they still work great. Just another way to keep your strops going... Peace all! Scott
My everyday strop has 2 big cuts in it and Gasman beat me to the thought of flipping it over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasman
I am right handed and my mistakes are on the right side......
For "relatively" minor cuts I would rather trim them out and continue on my ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMichigander
Jnat users trim inclusions from their stones and don't say that effects them. And that is with an edge leading stroke.
For a smaller OOOPS smooth it out and go on with your shaves.
Small dips or nicks, not proud of the surface will have no effect on stropping. The one issue may be if directly on an edge and your razor sort of drops into that "pothole" on each stroke. It becomes a little disconcerting to the fluidity of stropping but even then should have no real negative effect on the edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
I would never spend $100.00 on a strop. The two vintage shell strops cost me less that$25.00 combined. I hit garage sales, flea markets, antique shops & junk shops always looking for vintage shaving gear. I got my shell Koken for $20.00 at an antique shop & my Jager Barber Supply Shell for $5.00 at a garage sale. These strops have a few nicks & dings & I sanded the bed places to smooth them out then I treated them with Ballistol. The Jager had been in an unheated wood shop for around 30 years & was really dry. By slowly treating it with small amounts of the Ballistol it now feels like a new strop. If you don't feel good restoring your strop there are guy's on here that would do it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by lightcs1776
Slawman
I still use the reverse side of my beginner's strop (also full of nicks) with paste on it for the finish after honing. For a daily stop I'd suggest that (now you have learned), invest in a decent stop. I use an Illinois 827 'Russian' and find it great.
Interesting thread-When I made my home-made kangaroo strop recently. I stropped on the front side, which is sort of pebbly and rough-textured because that's just roo. Just for fun, I flipped it around and started stropping on the back side, which reminds me of a very finely-napped suede. My current post-shave stropping progression now involves 15-30 linen, then 15 strokes on the front of the roo, followed by 15 more on the finer back before I start working my way up my finer and finer shells across my rack (yeah, I'm one of those guys!). Do what works, but as Slawman says, if you do your detective work, you can often find vintage horse-hide shell at ridiculous prices when no one else is looking!
As others have said, you'll never go wrong with any Tony Miller strop, and there have been some great strops on our BST lately-I'm jonesing for a nice vintage Japanese shell real bad! Have fun!
My 2 cents.. take it with a grain of salt.
i have purchased $20 strop (shell, yes some needed more work than others) and i have purchased $400+ strop(westholme, NOS nakayamas, etc)... honest oppiion.. NO it is NOT the same... you can argue that a razor will strop just a nicely on a piece of old vintage shell (valid point) than in a new one.. and that a boarhide tripoi, or a roo strop, or some other buffalo and engish briddle are all in the same bucket... but honestly, for me the feeling is not the same when i strop in a NOS/NEW shell strop than when i have to invest a lot of time cleaning and reconditioning strop...
same applies for brushes, razors, houses, cars... Price for new is price for new, and price for old beat up stuff is price for that. Some times you are not paying for how good a well beaten W&B shaves against the performance of a mint chopper W&B... you are paying for the collectable item...
People need to understand there are two very different markets.. the market of collectors that want items that are usable but also in good condition, and prefereable new. and the market of users that want cheap and functional..
both are corect on what they want, but tryuing con convinve me that i should pay 100$ for a NOS mint nakayama strop just because i want it to be functional makes no sense.. why would the seler care that i want the item only for using it, only for it's functionality. if a collector wants an escher with label, that does not make the escher better at honing a razor, he's paying for how well preserved is a stone as additinal cost...
my point is, like it or not, we live ona world that values not only functionality but also beauty... this will sound pretty bad, my apologies in advance, but why would you preffer to date the prettiest girl in the class when you were young? wasn't the uggly girl just as functional? come one, this is the reality of human nature...
i have no issue with having my 20$ acquired shell strops, i like them and they are fine, but i also like my 400$ whestholme strop and i enjoy stroppig on it. all in all, i preffer my own made strop for my self (no, not making publicity, i dont need it, i'm making a point) every one preffer what they prefer. how lucky if what brings them joy is the ugly strop and the ugly razor...
if one cant pay more than 100$ for a strop it is fine, you atually dont "need" it.
if you can pay for it but you preffer not to.. that's smart you dont. "need" it.
for me it's hard to pay the extra 100$ (yeah i am no millionaire) but it's what i weanted... besides being functional, i wanted to marry the most beautiful girl in my class... ;)
PS.. yeah i still think my wife is the prettiest of them all hahaha
Well put, @gabrielcr78. For me, it's not as much what I can afford. House is paid off and there are no other debts at the moment. It is more about what I value. I don't doubt a $400 strop will likely outperform a $20 strop. However, if I can get something closer to $20 that performs well, I would be satisfied (I looked at one of the members strips, and will likely go with it in the near future). Now, those Japanese smiling razors are really tempting, but my beautiful wife knows the combination to the gun safe, so...
"The ugly girl is just as functional..."
I damn near pissed myself! HAH!
HAHAHAHA sorry folks, i really must apologize.. that really came out the wrong way :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Srdjan
LOL but you all know what i meant ;)
I knew exactly what you meant. And my wife is still a beauty queen, so no harm done. Grin.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabrielcr78
Thanks ligthcs1776 :)
You are a gentleman and I'm sure she glows like the day u met her :)
:beer1: Cheers to all our queens!
:)
