Finally bought a kanayama, was put off for years by the description of glassy, almost no draw. It has a lovely magnetic, medium draw similar to Torolf's oil tanned, but a little lighter and nicer.
Printable View
Finally bought a kanayama, was put off for years by the description of glassy, almost no draw. It has a lovely magnetic, medium draw similar to Torolf's oil tanned, but a little lighter and nicer.
They are great strops.
If you find it getting really slick wipe it down with a damp rag. There are instructions on their web site.
I have rubbed in some Neatsfoot oil. Only a couple of drops is needed.
Enjoy your new strop!
I've had mine for about 8 years and the draw is still like glass.
I only palm rub it and wipe it down with a clean damp cloth now and again.
I have a Scrupleworks oil tanned strop too and the draw is completely different.
Maybe ol Naomi San is using a different hide :confused:
You got you a fine strop. I've enjoyed mine for a few years now. Just wipe the dust off now and then. I've never thought of it as a glassy feel. I have two other strops that feel like snot on a doorknob. Now, that's what I call glassy. Can you say absolute Zero Draw! Not my Kamayama 70k.
Interesting that you should mention the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rog
Fairly close together I bought a Kanayama 70,000 and one of Torolf’s (Scrupleworks) oil-tanned horse hide strops.
I never really warmed up to the Kanayama, but took like a fish to water to the Scrupleworks strop.
Without doubt, the Scrupleworks is now my favourite hanging strop and various SRD and other hanging strops have long be retired.
I gave in to the temptation and even bought a second one of Torolf’s strops, for later use at our new home in Portugal.
B.
Not all of the Kanoyamas are exactly the same in draw, though they’re close. I believe that they are all finished the same, but the leather is not all the same. According to Takeshi, the thinner ones (lower numbers) can come from a younger horse and are softer than the thicker leather from the older horses. The younger horses thing came from Iwasaki’s chapter for barbers in his book. From AFramesTokyo:
‘The horse hide is natural material, and there is no exactly the same horse hide. Kanoyama strop Co. has experienced hardship to find thick high quality horse hide for last a couple years. when Mr. Naomi want to make thickest Cordovan strop (5mm thickness product like #90000), the original horse hide has to have at least 12mm before the manufacturing processes. The thickness of the Cordovan strop is one of quality indicator, and it is not only one determination of the quality. Mr. Naomi decides the quality of the strop in each models of the strops such as the thickness, the color, the softness, smoothness of the strop, the total quality of the strop, etc.
I guess the strop quality is decided the total quality of the strop instead of just the thickness of the strop, therefore, the thickness of the Cordovan strop is just one of the factor to determine the number of the strops.’
I have never put anything on my Kanoyama strops, as recommended by Naomi San, again from Takeshi’s site:
‘According to Mr. Naomi, we should not apply on any oil on Cordovan strop. The oil collects dust, and it makes losing smoothness on the Cordovan strop, and it makes not as the finishing quality strop anymore.’
I’ve noted that if I hand rub, the strop gets dirty. If I don’t hand rub, it doesn’t. Skin oil is salty and the oil just seems to sit on the top of the leather. Stropping on salty, dirty oil: doesn’t sound good to me.
From Iwasaki’s chapter for barbers in his book:
‘Some also spread oil on the strop to soften it, but it’s very common to over-apply oil. In such a case, no matter how you polish the leather it will never become glossy, and it will lose half its edge-polishing power.’
I suggest that everyone read Takeshi’s/Naomi’s instructions for care of cordovan, and read the strop section of Iwasaki’s paper.
http://strazors.com/uploads/images/a...onkamisori.pdf
Kanoyama/Kanayamara are excellent strops, vintage and different models do perform a bit differently. Models were of varying thickness and lengths.
Vintage were a bit thicker than modern, simply because horse flesh and working horse flesh is not as available as it once was. Working horse flesh is thicker, not many working horses this day.
There are a lot of strops in the wild as they made them for other vendors, most used the Kanayamara stamp on the handle end, though often not foil filled. The hardware and the sewn leather handle on the linen are unique and identifiable.
The often-overlooked part of the Kanoyama strops is/are the linen and or the excellent suede leather. Vintage linen is also different from modern, but both are still eceptional, especially for the money.
Oiling is a matter of personal preference, but any leather will eventually need to be rehydrated.
As always when oiling, use oil sparingly, just a few drops for maintenance, though oiling can alter the draw.
Does draw affect the edge performance? Well, technique is probably more important and draw, preference.
I decided to add fittings to the bottom and turn it around . Use it from the other direction for a year or two..
No rubbing or treating, just keep it in a case dust free..
Attachment 318563
Now that’s interesting!
The second buckle covered up the part that was worn from holding and now i have some thing to actually hold on to it has extended the length ..Its a win win..Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
I bought a Kanayama 70k as my 1st strop (admittedly a questionable decision... newbies: follow the conventional wisdom and buy a cheaper strop as your 1st) plus “replacement” suede and canvas pieces. I opted for the longest versions for the replacement pieces, with the idea to use them for my knives (they’re excellent for deburring).
My 1st razors were Kamisori and I ended up with a few dozen tiny nicks at the edges of my strop. So I worked on the strop in several sessions with the intent to smooth the damage. I started with a selection of my finest grit sandpapers. Did some testing and decided to work with 800-1500-3k. The nicks were easily repaired (smoothed but still visible). Then I rubbed the surface with a barely damp towel. The result was a much firmer drawing strop with a detectable nap.
Worried I had permanently altered the performance of my strop, I continued working razors over the next few weeks. The draw did not change. I decided to try something new. I have some 100% tung oil for my knife handles, that I mixed with some hot water (8-10 drops in about a pint of water). I covered the solution and shook it aggressively, then dumped the water and wiped out the glass with a microfiber towel. The result was a barely damp towel with a trace of 100% tung oil. I rubbed the strop thoroughly, re-wetting the towel as needed. I could tell there was oil in the mix but uniform application was very easy.
The strop was much improved after this process. The draw was barely faster and the nap was reduced. I worked razors on the strop an additional couple weeks and decided to sand a refinish the strop again. I used 3k sandpaper and did another tung oil treatment.
The strop was evolving. The tung oil application method was working, even though it’s not recommended anywhere I’ve seen. After an additional week or so of use, I rubbed it down, this time with no tung oil; just a damp microfiber towel. After this treatment the strop was very much different. Now it’s glassy again. No nap, performance is as new. The finish is glossy again and I’m impressed, if not surprised at the result.
Though I enjoyed excellent results I hesitate to recommend this treatment. I think adding oil is a bit risky, and likely not necessary. I think the key factor in the improvement was repeated use over time. My guess is I likely did some damage in my initial sanding. Then repeated use with the final 3k sanding and buffing with the damp towel finally restored the finish.
Until I try a new and better method, I will use the oil dilution and application method again. The basic idea is to make a temporary emulsion of (a trace of) oil in hot water to dampen a microfiber towel for application.
Pics show the strop, some nicks, and a couple shots of the current glossy/glassy finish.
Attachment 318571
Attachment 318572
Attachment 318574
Attachment 318575
Tung oil is a drying oil often used as a water proofing agent / finish. What the strop finish looks like is not as important as what it does to the bevel and edge.
The last thing you want on a strop is an abrasive of unknown hardness and size.
Cordovan leather is a stuffed leather, fats and waxes added and they can be drawn to the surface by burnishing, typically with a treated deer bone. I have hand good results with Reindeer antler, which can be purchased from pet stores. Deer bone for polishing is available but pricy, $30-40.
Euclid, great idea to burnish strop with a smooth antler.
Tom
I have one shell cordovan strop, not a Kanayama one, and have cleaned it with a soft damp cloth. I let it dry and the put a very light coat of pure carnauba wax on it. I've not done that often but it does return the draw to the original glass smooth feel.
Bob
I have a kanayama 70k. Great strop. But my go to is a russian shell i bought on eBay for 20 bucks. Comparing the 2 i would say the russian has a tiny bit more of draw. Ive done very little to them over the years. I have them hanging in a closet so dust isnt an issue. No oil at all and maybe once every couple years a damn cloth wipe.
A few days I got my first Kanayama #50000 strop, but the Canvas is very stiff. Anyone tips how to soften it?
The canvas needs to be softened. New kanayama canvas can damage the ecge.
The kanayama website has directions for softening the canvas.
I beat mine with the flat side of a meat tenderizer.
I used a rolling pin and the flat side of a meat tenderizer.
Washed and soaked it a couple of times and went heavy on the fabric softener.
It took a couple of days, but now it's perfect.
Pete <:-}
I threw mine in the washer with a load of towels on hand wash with fabric softener. Note that this will cause it to shrink about an inch unless you knead it, stretch it, and maybe hang it to dry with a weight on it. Being a little shorter doesn’t bother me but if you’re obsessive it might. The end cap will probably come off in a machine, just let everything dry and glue it back on. You can also hand wash it and knead it and it will shrink less.
Tip: when everything is flat and dry, rub the surface LIGHTLY just a COUPLE of times with an Atoma 400 or 600, this will raise a nap and noticeably soften the surface. The nap will eventually wear off, but your canvas should be in great shape by then, or you can re-raise the nap if you like it.
I got excellent results in softening Kanayama canvas using Atoma #600 and #1200. Quick, easy, precise.
The actual items I used are the CKTG slurry plates, which are approximately 3”X2” but any similar implement would give similar results; though I would not recommend sandpaper due to potential abrasive shedding.
When asked why he used such stiff material in his fabric strop the maker said it was the best he could source locally.
Personally I never used mine. There are just so many better alternatives available.
Yes, agreed, the linen/canvas that comes with my Tony Miller strop is far better it seems. Also not going to use it, I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I’ll offer a dissenting opinion. I use my Kanoyama canvas a lot. I’m using it as a part of stropping to maintain the Sub Cero that now has 110 shaves on it and the edge is still smooth and comfortable. Can’t be much wrong with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
What did you to soften it up then? Because my canvas is hard like stone.
I did what you earlier but it's still quite hard.
Post #19 above. It was softened enough after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowman12
Did you raise a nap? That makes a difference.
Yes rubbed the canvas with my worn-out Atoma 400 over the canvas side.Little difference. But my Atoma 400 is very worn-out I must admit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
I think a lot of the preferences are just that, preference based on feel or feedback vs performance, and that’s fine, folks need to use what works for them and pleases them. But there’s no doubt that it performs well if you can maintain an edge to 110 and it's still performing well.
I have a new one or two laying around, maybe I’ll try Iwasaki’s recommendations on one.
Over the time that I have belonged to this splendid group I have viewed multiple concerns with the canvas used on the Kanayama strops. Jim Rion suggested that I used a stiff nylon brush and bend the material until I was happy with its condition. I followed his suggestion and have great results. BTW Illinois strops have a similar cloth (firehose) material. Just saying...
I also very much enjoy and appreciate using my Kanayama canvas component. After I softened the surface with my Atoma it has been nice and comfortable in use, giving excellent edge improvement results. If mine were somehow taken out of commission, I would certainly not hesitate to replace it ($32-34 online).
It's all a matter of where you be coming from. In my case I have some vintage thick linen strops as well as some canvas types so it just isn't worth the effort to me to get it into useable condition. Of course if you are someone who likes a challenge or likes to tinker or has nothing else to use then that's a different story.
I got the suede so never had to mess with it, and I use a flax linen strop from Torolf, don’t care for most other linens, it’s personal, most any will work, but I love my suede, after a shave it’s a pretty good post shave strop, it drys it quick
