Resting between stropping (Not me, the razor).

I have just been reading the following advice which apparently came from the Dovo company:

"The strop should be used prior to shaving, and never- under any circumstance- after shaving. This is because after shaving the delicate cutting edge is kind of bent (not visible to the naked eye), and you would break tiny metal pieces out of the cutting edge. This would consequently lead to cuts in the skin. Many refer to this condition as a burr from misaligned micro-separations that occur when the razor is used, but will go back into position and become fine again after approx. 24 to 30 hours. Stropping just before use will further align the blade edge and put it in shave ready condition. In order to get the best daily shave with a straight razor DOVO even suggests an individual even consider having at least two straight razors on hand to fully allow time for the blade edge to rest between shaves for optimal performance."

Is this the case? I have read that some people strop after, and even during their shave; should they desist?

AD

When I got my first razor I stropped it before and after the shave, and I used it daily for about 5 months with no ill effect and no real degradation of the edge. It still shaved very well after 5 months, with no pulling or irritation.

When I got my next razor I realised that the first one had dulled slightly (I could tell the difference in sharpness), so I touched this one up on a high grit hone, and that brought it right back.

Many people on this forum strop after the shave as well as before it, and I've not read of anyone having problems with it.

In fact, the consensus is that stropping after the shave is actually beneficial as it cleans of the micro gunk thats on the edge. Personally I think stropping after the shave as well does help keep an edge for longer.

You can use a razor daily, as I did, with no problems if you look after it. The only snag will be if it dulls and you have to send it out to be honed, leaving you razorless!

I do 25 canvas and 50 - 60 leather before the shave, and then 10 canvas and 15 - 20 leather after the shave. Not caused any problems at all!

I think this is a barbers (wives) tale that came about from barbers shaving 20 to 30 guys a day using the same edge. I don't think it applies to the average user. Sounds like it might have been a good advertisement ploy back in the day though.

Shaving one face, with one razor, has worked daily for me for years. I even stopped rotating razors completely about 2 years ago.

Well, I shall take your words for that, especially as I have read a lot about stropping and that is the first time I've heard that one.
Thanks chaps,
AD

I am another before and after the shave stropper and it is the best way to do it IME. If it changes anything it is for the better.

me too - before and after. helps avoid black spots on the edge by getting the water off.

Ignore them. They make them, but the member's here are the obsessive users & are more likely to know what's best for a razor!
I strop before, & on the linen after. It ensures the edge is completely dry.

There is some truth in this in that 1) the edge will be deformed slightly by shaving and 2) it will tend to relax back to its original conture with time. These properties of steels are well know and well documented.

Whether stropping right after shaving will break off tiny bits of the deformed edge, however, is certainly open for debate. I would say it depends on how severe the deformation is.

I only strop before shaving, as I see no utility in stroping after.

People can get too hung up on this. I strop before and after like some of the others for the cleaning purposes. To tell the truth though, I use canvas for sharpening and cleaning, but most of my blades after a good honing get about 10 laps per day on the leather and 10 on the canvas after shaving and thats it. Some people strop 50+ laps on multiple surfaces, but if the razor is honed, i feel a few laps before and after are good for maintenance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I think this is a barbers (wives) tale that came about from barbers shaving 20 to 30 guys a day using the same edge. I don't think it applies to the average user. Sounds like it might have been a good advertisement ploy back in the day though.

Shaving one face, with one razor, has worked daily for me for years. I even stopped rotating razors completely about 2 years ago.

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Hold the phone here!

You use only a single razor? All the time? Year in, year out?

May I inquire as too what razor you have settled on as your workhorse, just because I'm curious?

Do a search for a series of threads called the grand experiment a few years ago. It addresses this very issue.

When I started researching the care and feeding of straight razors, about two years ago, I remember reading in multiple sources, that a razor should be left for twenty-four hours after stropping to allow it to return to its original shape. It was my assumption then, that this was the prevailing theory at the time. It also seemed to be well accepted that one should have two razors and alternate day by day. That being said, I usuallly strop the night before a shave to save time in the morning and I use the same razor for a week or more.

It's really weird that so many don't seem to be familiar with this idea. I'm not saying it's correct or incorrect, only that what I thought was common knowledge is actually a little known practice. Coincidentally, another current thread talks about lathering a strop. This is something else I came across in my initial research on stopping and thought it was a widespread practice. All I can conlude is, "To each, his own."

Well I've only got the one razor so it won't be resting any time soon.

leadduck, I have lathered my strop for the first time recently and it was good. How often do you do it?

AD

Twice a year, as the thread said to!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adydye

I have just been reading the following advice which apparently came from the Dovo company:

"The strop should be used prior to shaving, and never- under any circumstance- after shaving. This is because after shaving the delicate cutting edge is kind of bent (not visible to the naked eye), and you would break tiny metal pieces out of the cutting edge. This would consequently lead to cuts in the skin. Many refer to this condition as a burr from misaligned micro-separations that occur when the razor is used, but will go back into position and become fine again after approx. 24 to 30 hours. Stropping just before use will further align the blade edge and put it in shave ready condition. In order to get the best daily shave with a straight razor DOVO even suggests an individual even consider having at least two straight razors on hand to fully allow time for the blade edge to rest between shaves for optimal performance."

Is this the case? I have read that some people strop after, and even during their shave; should they desist?

AD

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Why would metal magically "go back to position"?

Most of us on the forum have read about giving our edges an overnight+ rest so it can reform itself but, as was posted above, barbers used their razors twenty to thirty times a day and had no problems. Today most barbers use the throw-away type razors and that's another discussion.

I think the proof is in the pudding and until I notice poor performance that I can blame on too frequent use, I will continue to use the same razor two days in a row if I want to. I usually don't but, why not?

Most of us are experienced enough to know when there is a problem with an edge. 4 or 5 laps on a Swaty or an Escher will usually take care of that. The message is, shave with any razor that turns you on today. This is supposed to be fun..................

I often take my latest acquisition along to the barbershop for my barber to shave my neck and around my ears. He is a collector also. If I wouldn't take one of my razors to the barbershop, they would shave my neck etc. with a throwaway. That upsets me..............

Jerry
~~~:rock:

I've been stropping, before, after and whenever else I feel like it :D

I'm going with the more stropping the merrier approach. For me - the more I strop, the better the edge is. In fact I think I might need to go and strop right now...


Michael.

Where is Farttree Gully. OR do I need new glasses??

Keep stropping...........

Unfortunately, steel does not magically reform itself after being plastically deformed.

Stropping actually buffs off oxidation from the micro-dings left in an edge from the previous day's shave. That isn't all that the stropping does, mind you.

My theory is that this oxidation does not have time to occur completely if the blade is used every day.

All theories aside, modern science doesn't support this claim of steel reforming itself over a 24 hour period. Something else is happening here and this wives tale is a convenient avenue to explain it.

Letting the fine edge on a razor 'rest to reform itself' is about as valid as pigs having wings.

When steel is deformed in the elastic region, it returns to true almost immediately after losing any/all applied force. Take, for example .. a spring. I think the world would be in trouble if every steel spring in the world took 24 hours to bounce back. In other words ... if the steel was to rebound elastically, this rebound would be immediate and not take a 24 hour time period to execute.

Yes, one could argue different steels react differently ... but this argument only goes so far and ends quite poorly. The aforementioned example spring steel is generally a medium carbon steel and razors are, of course, high carbon steel. The characteristic for this steel with a fine edge would be to experience plastic deformation and breakage. Since high carbon steels in general are quite stiff, this type of steel does not see much elastic and plastic deformation. High carbon steels behave similarly to a ceramic: able to absorb alot of force with little to no deformation with fracture being catastrophic. Sure, minor elastic deformation may occur ... but again, the rebound from the deformation would be immediate. Being on such a fine edge, it is my opinion that this this elastic deformation would move to the plastic region quite rapidly.

There are no magical properties within steel, except if you enjoy tinkering with magnets.

But if this reformation was to occur, we would have limited time to photograph wrecked cars or plasma cut steel for instance(s). In keeping with the tone of this thread, wrecked cars have this ability to magically reform themselves into the brand new car that it once was if left alone for a few days to heal. If steel is cut, we cant keep the cut pieces close to each other or else they will reform into one piece of steel again.

These last two sentences are pure and absolute rubbish ... just as much rubbish as a 24 hour reforming period for a razor edge.

Look where you are getting advice ... a razor manufacturer. Of course they want you to buy more razors. What they claim doesn't make sense to me and it does not adhere to general metallurgical principles. Since their business is metallurgy, I am pretty comfortable with figuring they know these principles as well. Remember, it takes money for testing. I don't know of one razor manufacturer that would want to prove/disprove this wives tale... simply because it costs them money without any return on their investment. In other words, it doesn't make business sense to prove or disprove this wives tale ... plus, not proving this tale might sucker someone into buying another razor from them ... so why rock the proverbial boat?

It's not gospel ... its a fable that might make them more money.

I don't see stropping after a shave to be harmful at all.




This might be the longest post to date for me. Hey, just sayin'.

Woot !

After shaving, I do 15/15 & my edges do last a bit longer. Also went from doing 25/50 before the shave to more like 50/50. Wives' tale, methinks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

Where is Farttree Gully. OR do I need new glasses??

Keep stropping...........

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Thanks for asking - it's Ferntree Gully, known also as FTG.

Ferntree Gully is in the south-east of Melbourne in the foothills of the Dandenong Ranges. (Not sure how many Km it is, but it is about an hour drive from the city of Melbourne).

All the best,
Michael (who likes this part of Australia)

And now... after this short break we bring you back to your thread :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubear

When I got my first razor I stropped it before and after the shave, and I used it daily for about 5 months with no ill effect and no real degradation of the edge. It still shaved very well after 5 months, with no pulling or irritation.

When I got my next razor I realised that the first one had dulled slightly (I could tell the difference in sharpness), so I touched this one up on a high grit hone, and that brought it right back.

Many people on this forum strop after the shave as well as before it, and I've not read of anyone having problems with it.

In fact, the consensus is that stropping after the shave is actually beneficial as it cleans of the micro gunk thats on the edge. Personally I think stropping after the shave as well does help keep an edge for longer.

You can use a razor daily, as I did, with no problems if you look after it. The only snag will be if it dulls and you have to send it out to be honed, leaving you razorless!

I do 25 canvas and 50 - 60 leather before the shave, and then 10 canvas and 15 - 20 leather after the shave. Not caused any problems at all!

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I'm quite new to this. I am curious on if one should strop before the shower and get out and lather up and shave immediately or get out of the shower and strop and then shave immediately.

The first shave I tried, I got out and stropped and it seemed awkward.

The next few I did the reverse and was more comfortable. I do think as a newbie I dulled the edge the first couple times while working on technique and even sliced into the leather a bit on day 1 and 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slim5111

I'm quite new to this. I am curious on if one should strop before the shower and get out and lather up and shave immediately or get out of the shower and strop and then shave immediately.

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It makes very little difference if any. The steel surface starts deteriorating the moment it is exposed, but the rate for a perceptible effect is hours, not minutes.
I strop while my face is lathered so that the lather can do it's work on the whiskers.

In your case the dominant factor for how good your shave is, is your experience, closely followed by how lucky you got on that particular day :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTG

I've been stropping, before, after and whenever else I feel like it :D

I'm going with the more stropping the merrier approach. For me - the more I strop, the better the edge is. In fact I think I might need to go and strop right now...


Michael.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one! Sometimes, I'll be in the bathroom, see my razor and strop sitting there, and decide they need some attention. :)
There have been occasions where i didn't shave for 3 or 4 days, but I still stropped a blade everyday. :P

I shave every other day, so the suggested waiting period isn't a problem for me.

Just to interject, I do 60/60 before shaving and before I do my 'Fools Pass'[upper lip WTG/ATG pass's] I do another 40 or so on the smooth side of my Illinois faithful 260 strop. It does[IMO]keen up the edge a bit, and if that's just in my head at least it does give me the confidence to surry forth and get the trickier parts of my face BBS!! Then another 20 pass's after I rinse and dry the razor when I'm done, Obsessive, maybe, but it gets me through, so to speak.

Continue on gents, don't let me slow the thread down.

tinkersd of SRP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkersd

Just to interject, I do 60/60 before shaving and before I do my 'Fools Pass'[upper lip WTG/ATG pass's] I do another 40 or so on the smooth side of my Illinois faithful 260 strop. It does[IMO]keen up the edge a bit, and if that's just in my head at least it does give me the confidence to surry forth and get the trickier parts of my face BBS!! Then another 20 pass's after I rinse and dry the razor when I'm done, Obsessive, maybe, but it gets me through, so to speak.

Continue on gents, don't let me slow the thread down.

tinkersd of SRP.

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You do 60 fabric then 60 leather before the shave and another 40 during? Well I've been doing ~30/60 and was worried it waws too much :p I've thought about taking the blade for a few more laps around the strop during the shave, but I was worried it might be bad for the strop or the razor.

Absa'to'bloody'lutely!!!

Thats right Hayduke, its more than just trying to cover all base's when I strop that much, I do feel a noteble difference before and after with the TPT on the razors edge. Just feels keener to me[IMO] after I do 60linen/60smooth on my Ill.#260. But if you get great results with you regimin, please don't let my singular opinion sway you, keep on keepin' on!!

With respect, tinkersd of SRP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkersd

and before I do my 'Fools Pass'[upper lip WTG/ATG pass's] I do another 40 or so on the smooth side of my Illinois faithful 260 strop.

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I'm glad you mentioned that because I am struggling a bit with the old upper lip. I'm finding that after I've done WTG and then ATG it looks like a red inner tube stuck on under my nose. Bit sore and all that. I'm trying just XTG for the moment which isn't BBS, but more comfotable until I work things out.
Maybe I should try a few laps on the strop like you do.

AD

I tried some mid shave extra laps up and down the strop last night. I couldn't tell a difference :shrug:

Sorry tinkersd. Maybe there was a difference and I'm still much of a newb to notice :)

Right, well, I've learned a couple of things from this site in the last couple of days:

Buffing - I'd never heard of buffing, but I checked out the 'pass' guide on wiki and this is solving my upper lip problems above the sides of my mouth. You have to remember to flatten the angle of the blade against your face, though.

Also, I tried this (below) technique Rayman talked about which involves using the muscles in your top lip (or bottom) to draw it down in a controlled way against a stationary razor.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/shaving-straight-razor/46507-how-shave-under-your-nose.html

Without doubt, straight-razor shaving is the least straight forward thing which I thought was pretty straight forward, I've ever done!

All the best,
AD